DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit
-
Remember when everybody switched to HDMI and it was great? The plug was tiny. No thumbscrews. It was hot-swappable, in a way VGA and DVI were never designed to be. It was keyed so you couldn't screw up plugging it in. The key was actually visible to the naked eye (unlike USB) so you didn't have the "flip 180 degrees" problem. And it fucking worked, anything you plugged in worked.
But of course, such a golden age can not stand, so everybody switched to DisplayPort.
I recently just installed a new GPU which has one HDMI port and 3 DP ports. Since I have two monitors, I plugged one into HDMI and the other into DP. Easy, right? No not really.
In an effort to prevent icons and windows from appearing on a monitor that might no longer exist, Windows helpfully moves them all to the other monitor if the monitor they're on ceases to exist for whatever reason. This good behavior.
The problem is Windows, because the designers of DP were idiot moron retard dumbshits, can't tell the difference between a DP monitor that's unplugged, and a DP monitor that's powered-down. Which means if you turn off your DP monitor, Windows assumes it'd been unplugged and will never return, and so decides to fuck with all your shit... move icons, windows, to the other monitor, set the other monitor's taskbar as primary, etc.
Again: I don't blame Windows for this. It works perfectly fine with HDMI, because it can tell the difference between "this monitor is unplugged" and "this monitor is turned off".
Here's a whole thread of DP victims trying to work around this issue: https://superuser.com/questions/630555/turning-displayport-monitor-off-disables-monitor-completely
Naturally, none of the fixes posted there work for me. (even the one that restores windows and icon positions doesn't, because it can't restore the default task bar status.)
So what's the solution? It's this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015OW3M1W/ref=asc_df_B015OW3P1O5349663/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B015OW3P1O&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167141218295&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6537551821577248569&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033256&hvtargid=pla-299948917855&th=1
Fuck DisplayPort. Fuck it right up the ass. I'm spending actual cash-money just to never have to deal with it.
(And BTW, I'm not even getting into the whole "hey people hated the fact that USB had something like 3-4 different plug sizes, all utterly incompatible-- let's make DisplayPort also have multiple different incompatible plug sizes! What a great idea! People hate that all HDMI ports are exactly the same!")
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
I don't blame Windows for this.
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The problem is Windows, ... I don't blame Windows for this.
( )
-
Right. Remember DisplayPort is perfect and has no flaws, it's only Blakeyrat who's the dumbshit.
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
because the designers of DP were idiot moron retard dumbshits, can't tell the difference between a DP monitor that's unplugged, and a DP monitor that's powered-down.
VESA said in DisplayPort Technical Overview
Hot Plug Detect Signal Description
- Signal provided by the Sink (display) to the Source (GPU)
- Typically 0V or 3.3V signal (bi-level).
- “High” signal (3.3V) indicates Sink presence.
- “Low” signal (0V) > 2 msec indicates Sink absence
- “Low” signal of 0.5 to 1ms indicates “interrupt” from Sink (request to read Sink DPCD registers)
It's there, and has been since the beginning; earlier versions of the spec also included a pin providing the correct amount of power to send back so it wouldn't even need to be plugged into the wall; your monitor manufacturer is .
-
@twelvebaud that's unpossible. @blakeyrat is never wrong.
-
Fine; intercourse has made this thread garbage before it even started. I'm ignoring it, call me a retard all you want, whatever.
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
(And BTW, I'm not even getting into the whole "hey people hated the fact that USB had something like 3-4 different plug sizes, all utterly incompatible-- let's make DisplayPort also have multiple different incompatible plug sizes! What a great idea! People hate that all HDMI ports are exactly the same!")
There are five HDMI connector types. Type A/B are defined in the HDMI 1.0 specification, type C is defined in the HDMI 1.3 specification, and type D/E are defined in the HDMI 1.4 specification.
Go home @blakeyrat, you're drunk.
-
@twelvebaud I feel like people don't understand why DisplayPort exists - HDMI on monitors makes no sense whatsoever, because it's the same thing as DVI, which every monitor has anyway. If someone has a basic understanding, they'll get that DisplayPort is for monitors, and not implement it fully.
But you can do crazy multimonitor things with a single cable with DisplayPort, so I rather like it.
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
intercourse
Deadnaming people is a big no-no.
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
So what's the solution? It's this:
Buying cables from Amazon instead of Monoprice is TR
-
Honestly that behavior should be configurable in the monitor itself regardless of what the connector type is. That most monitors don't allow this is quite depressing.
@blakeyrat it might just be your specific monitor that is choosing to use this behavior, unless it's explicitly in the DisplayPort spec.
-
@lb_ said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Honestly that behavior should be configurable in the monitor itself regardless of what the connector type is. That most monitors don't allow this is quite depressing.
@blakeyrat it might just be your specific monitor that is choosing to use this behavior, unless it's explicitly in the DisplayPort spec.
I'm going to bet that the monitor in question does the same thing when connected through HDMI. It is a behavior I have seen on cheap monitors going back to the SVGA days (IIRC, it wasn't an issue before that because VGA and earlier didn't support either monitor hibernation or detecting monitor shutdown).
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Naturally, none of the fixes posted there work for me. (even the one that restores windows and icon positions doesn't, because it can't restore the default task bar status.)
Are the monitors sufficiently different that you couldn't try switching them around so the HDMI monitor is the one that you keep your task bar on?
-
@scholrlea said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@lb_ said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Honestly that behavior should be configurable in the monitor itself regardless of what the connector type is. That most monitors don't allow this is quite depressing.
@blakeyrat it might just be your specific monitor that is choosing to use this behavior, unless it's explicitly in the DisplayPort spec.
I'm going to bet that the monitor in question does the same thing when connected through HDMI. It is a behavior I have seen on cheap monitors going back to the SVGA days (IIRC, it wasn't an issue before that because VGA and earlier didn't support either monitor hibernation or detecting monitor shutdown).
I have a monitor that does that via HDMI. My 4K one. Had to make my normal monitor primary so the icons would stop flipping back/forth.
-
@dcon The icon flipping part? That's definitely Windows. I don't know if MacOS does any better or worse about it, offhand, and it would be a crapshoot to even try to guess what the different Linux and BSD desktop environments would do (but you can bet its sucks - I may use Linux myself, but I am not stupid enough to think any of the Linux DEs are actually good).
-
@scholrlea said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The icon flipping part? That's definitely Windows.
Yeah, I know. Windows thinks the monitor gets disconnected, so it reorganizes. I gave up on trying to figure out the monitor power options and flipped the 2 monitors...
-
@scholrlea said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The icon flipping part? That's definitely Windows.
Which leads me to one of the most annoying things about Windows. I leave my office and all my windows are spread out how I like them to be. I go somewhere else and remote in to my desktop and do something and if I move any window in any way when I get back to my office all my shit is on the primary monitor and has to be spread back out.
"How is Windows supposed to know what you want? Not a bug. Windows is the best and has never done anything wrong!!"
How about just leave my shit on the monitors it was on when I log back in locally?
-
I just never turn my monitors off.
I'm glad I got a new video card before the prices got too horrific, though, because very few support my setup anymore. I have two identical monitors that only have DVI (of the digital standards) and require dual-link DVI. Most video cards nowadays don't come with two DVI ports, much less two duals. You can adapt DisplayPort to dual, but it's not cheap. I imagine in a few years when I finally rebuild everything about this computer some insanely high resolution monitors will be included.
-
@polygeekery You know, this would all be solved if Windows popped a notification like "Hey, we noticed your screens have changed a bit. Would you like to save your layout so if you magically get back to what it was before I can restore it for you?"
But, that would confuse way too many people...
-
@magus said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
because it's the same thing as DVI,
Is that DVI-A, DVI-I, DVI-Ñ, or DVI-Ø?
-
Isn't the whole reason that DP exists that HDMI was proprietary and the companies that designed it were charging for the license more than everyone else was willing to pay, so they made their own open standard? That's basically, "the same but free".
-
@kian said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Isn't the whole reason that DP exists that HDMI was proprietary and the companies that designed it were charging for the license more than everyone else was willing to pay, so they made their own open standard? That's basically, "the same but free".
Oh god, now you've done it. Blakeyrant about FOSS incoming.
-
@pie_flavor said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Blakeyrant about FOSS incoming.
Probably not; he said back in post #7 in the thread that he was ignoring it, because (he thought) people were calling him an idiot, as usual
-
@sloosecannon HDMI has about that many variants too.
@kian said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
That's basically, "the same but free".
If you can do the things with HDMI that you can with DisplayPort, maybe. As far as I know, you can't.
-
@tsaukpaetra said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
You know, this would all be solved if Windows popped a notification like "Hey, we noticed your screens have changed a bit. Would you like to save your layout so if you magically get back to what it was before I can restore it for you?"
Or ... why not just do that? The same thing goes for rotating the screen between landscape and portrait (for something like the surfaces). Right now I have to be careful about arranging the icons in the part of the screen that exists in both configurations...
-
@tsaukpaetra said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
this would all be solved if Windows popped a notification
Just what Windows needs: more notifications to ask if you want to do stuff that it’s a safe bet you want to anyway.
-
@scholrlea said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
I don't know if MacOS does any better or worse about it, offhand
It's got a less serious version: it moves the dock back and forth. But at least keeps the order of things on it the same. (Also, it keeps items on the desktop in the same place, but that's because I keep my laptop screen as primary due to often using it without external monitors.)
-
Wow, @blakeyrat hits the nail on the head. I have exactly the same rant now I have a 4k monitor in-between my two older HDMI monitors. Not only if I switch the 4k off, on screen timeout it completely messes up the desktop by pushing the icons to the (also timedout but still connected) HDMI screens.
Edit: ALSO the sound device is changed to the graphics card, even though the motherboard sound is selected as 'default for playback'.
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The problem is Windows, because the designers of DP were idiot moron retard dumbshits, can't tell the difference between a DP monitor that's unplugged, and a DP monitor that's powered-down. Which means if you turn off your DP monitor, Windows assumes it'd been unplugged and will never return, and so decides to fuck with all your shit... move icons, windows, to the other monitor, set the other monitor's taskbar as primary, etc.
Interestingly, I have it the other way around: Windows trying to display stuff on a monitor that doesn't exist, only after messing with display settings does it figure it out. I just tested it and plugging out my monitor that's using DP makes Windows play that "stuff unplugged!" sound and then... nothing.
Maybe GPU manufacturers are also messing with shit before it ever reaches the OS as well? I have an NVidia here.
Also, open source NVidia drivers on Linux (nouveau) couldn't even figure out there's a monitor on that port, even though they are rather good othwerwise, hell, I'd just use those if it weren't for that problem because I don't really intend to game on Linux much anyway...
-
@hardwaregeek said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@pie_flavor said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Blakeyrant about FOSS incoming.
Probably not; he said back in post #7 in the thread that he was ignoring it, because (he thought) people were calling him an idiot, as usual
Actually, he gave us explicit permission to call him an idiot.
-
@onyx said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Interestingly, I have it the other way around: Windows trying to display stuff on a monitor that doesn't exist, only after messing with display settings does it figure it out.
At work, my display panel shows 5 monitors. With 1 and 3 being the same one. No fucking clue how it came up with that. There's the laptop display and the external. That's it. Thankfully it doesn't try using those...
-
@sloosecannon said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Is that DVI-A, DVI-I, DVI-Ñ, or DVI-Ø?
DVI-💩
-
@gurth said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@tsaukpaetra said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
this would all be solved if Windows popped a notification
Just what Windows needs: more notifications to ask if you want to do stuff that it’s a safe bet you want to anyway.
Ah, but then we have situations like visual studio, where it only sometimes autosaves the solution's window layout, such that oftentimes when re-opening a solution you get a layout from two weeks ago being restored.
-
@magus said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
HDMI has about that many variants too.
Not actually in use though. I've seen.... HDMI and the occasional rare MicroHDMI.
Meanwhile, I'm still encountering DVI incompatibilities...
-
@sloosecannon said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@magus said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
HDMI has about that many variants too.
Not actually in use though. I've seen.... HDMI and the occasional rare MicroHDMI.
Oh yeah, my convertible tablet has a Micro HDMI port. On an unrelated note, does anyone need a Mini HDMI to HDMI adapter?
-
@parody said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
On an unrelated note, does anyone need a Mini HDMI to HDMI adapter?
I have a few cables actually.
-
@helix said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Edit: ALSO the sound device is changed to the graphics card, even though the motherboard sound is selected as 'default for playback'.
Yeah, this is bloody annoying. It really seems to prefer audio output via the graphics card over everything else (and it is as stupid as it sounds). Anything from reconnecting a display to upgrading GPU drivers seems to cause it to switch over.
-
@cvi said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
It really seems to prefer audio output via the graphics card over everything else (and it is as stupid as it sounds).
It makes sense if you frequently connect laptop to TV.
-
@cvi Could that be a hold-over from Olden Times when video cards often also had built-in audio jacks, that were probably better than what came with the motherboard? (If that had audio output at all beyond a PC speaker.)
-
@gurth nah, it's definitely TV thing.
-
@polygeekery said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@scholrlea said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
The icon flipping part? That's definitely Windows.
Which leads me to one of the most annoying things about Windows. I leave my office and all my windows are spread out how I like them to be. I go somewhere else and remote in to my desktop and do something and if I move any window in any way when I get back to my office all my shit is on the primary monitor and has to be spread back out.
"How is Windows supposed to know what you want? Not a bug. Windows is the best and has never done anything wrong!!"
How about just leave my shit on the monitors it was on when I log back in locally?
I can top that. I only have one monitor at work. If it powers off while I'm in a meeting or something, when I get back and unlock my computer, the windows are all small and in a corner. Apparently Windows decides that when the only monitor goes to sleep, it will be replaced with a new 640x480 monitor.
-
@cvi Yep, that's Windows being mistakenly helpful. If you plug in a new audio device, it thinks that that's the one you want to use right away, so it switches everything to it. The problem is that "new" doesn't mean "just plugged in", it can also mean "just turned on because it fails at hotplug", "just had its drivers updated", or "felt lonely so it reinitialized so it could get all the soundz back".
-
@gąska said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
It makes sense if you frequently connect laptop to TV.
OK, never done that personally, but I'll admit that this actually makes sense. Wish I could disable the feature anyway, but OK.
-
@cvi said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Anything from reconnecting a display to upgrading GPU drivers seems to cause it to switch over.
Earlier today, I upgraded my video driver and was surprised when it kept my actual sound card as the default output. I think it's the first time ever that it didn't switch it to the HDMI (connected to a monitor without speakers).
-
@magus said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@twelvebaud I feel like people don't understand why DisplayPort exists - HDMI on monitors makes no sense whatsoever, because it's the same thing as DVI, which every monitor has anyway
Except with a plug that's decidedly less awful.
Also I'm honestly not sure what the difference between DP and HDMI is for basic "hook up a display to a PC or a set top box" use case, and I'd rather one of the two died a quiet death so that I don't have to worry about it. Preferably DP, since I already have two HDMI cables and only one DP cable.
-
@maciejasjmj said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
Also I'm honestly not sure what the difference between DP and HDMI is for basic "hook up a display to a PC or a set top box" use case....
For the very most basic case there's no difference, but they each have more advanced features the other doesn't.
HDMI:
- Supports CEC (letting your TV remote send commands over the wire to your box)
- Supports longer cables
DIsplayPort:
- Supports display chaining (connect multiple displays to one port on the computer)
- Supports variable framerate (not added to HDMI until January 2017, still very rare in the wild)
I wouldn't want to get rid of one of them. I use CEC in my home theater, and display chaining for both my home & work computer setups. They each have their place.
-
@unperverted-vixen And it's worth pointing out what these differences are about: HDMI's concern is TVs, and DisplayPort's concern is monitors for computers.
-
@tsaukpaetra said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
@polygeekery You know, this would all be solved if Windows popped a notification like "Hey, we noticed your screens have changed a bit. Would you like to save your layout so if you magically get back to what it was before I can restore it for you?"
But, that would confuse way too many people...
-
@blakeyrat said in DisplayPort is the world's biggest piece of shit:
I recently just installed a new GPU which has one HDMI port and 3 DP ports. Since I have two monitors, I plugged one into HDMI and the other into DP. Easy, right? No not really.
Huh. My new one has three DP, one HDMI, and one DVI-D. (Some brand or other of NVidia 1080 Ti with as much memory on the card as my old PC had for system memory.)
And I have a pair of 24-inch panels. One's plugged into the DVI socket, and the other to the HDMI, and the three DP sockets are empty.
But that's because I had HDMI and DVI cables to hand when the PC arrived.
What's weird, though, is that the BIOS comes up on the DVI port, and Windows begins on there, then switches primaryness to the HDMI port.