Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets"
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@maciejasjmj said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@weng said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
On the other hand, this in no way corresponds to how any actual people use computers.
It does. You know how when you open a PDF in a browser, it now usually opens it in a new tab instead of pulling up an entirely different application with its own window? And how if you actually want it in a separate window all you need to do is pull the tab out of the tab stack?
Except that normally the reason I want it in a separate window is because I want it in that entirely different application. (Acrobat Reader can do things with PDFs that browser PDF viewing can't, and full-fat Acrobat Writer can do even more things. And yes, I paid good money for a copy of the full whack of Acrobat.)
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@steve_the_cynic Right. So imagine if it opened in Adobe in a tab that you could pull out to its own window. All the advantages of both systems
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@jaloopa said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@steve_the_cynic Right. So imagine if it opened in Adobe in a tab that you could pull out to its own window. All the advantages of both systems
Except I don't think that way. Separate applications, separate windows, thanks. (Exception, I guess, in the case of an actual Object Linking and Embedding use-case. But in that case the embedded stuff is part of the outer document, so it's a separate editing mode rather than a separate application.)
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@lb_ said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
I feel like I must be the in the minority group of people who wanted tabs for all apps years ago, not just browsers.
I find tabs useful in my word processor (Pages) because I tend to have a bunch of related documents open, and tabs make it easier to switch between them than through a whole bunch of windows. (I also keep multiple windows open, so that I can have multiple groups of documents open.)
However, I wouldn’t want different applications to be open in tabs of the same window. This sounds like either a recipe for confusion to me, or as simply a variant on a task bar. Then again, I don’t like to work full-screen, so I suppose this kind of interface makes sense to people who do like to do that.
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For me, virtual desktops are a solution to a problem which is better solved with multiple monitors. Not that I have those, I only occasionally use a virtual desktop to hide a music player in.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Nobody likes or wants virtual desktops. Linux had it, people begged for it in OS X-- Apple implements it, nobody uses it. People begged for it in Windows-- Microsoft implements it, nobody uses it.
Weren’t you the one who wanted claims like the above supported by evidence? If so, I guess that makes my name “nobody”:
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Apple implements it, nobody uses it.
I've seen every single Macbook user friend of mine using them all the time.
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@grunnen said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Is this just Office 365, as a web application, integrated into Edge?
No.
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I have once in a while wished to use Office or File Explorer with a tabbed interface. Even though this feature is advertised as grouping together different apps, I think it will be able to support my usecase as well. I'll try it out.
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@timebandit said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@gąska said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
But then I moved to a tiny apartment with even more tiny desk.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082808&p_id=13815&seq=1&format=2
What's the point of mounting a laptop on top of one of those while on an airplane or coffee shop?
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@gąska said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Me too. But then I moved to a tiny apartment with even more tiny desk.
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@zecc Let me ask you this: every major OS has virtual desktops.
Have you, in your workplace, friends, family, the coffee shop, etc, ever seen anybody using virtual desktops? Even once?
I haven't.
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@grunnen lol no. Basically, UWP apps all just use a default, OS-provided window border right now, and so there's no reason that that border can't be shared, with contextual memory.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@zecc Let me ask you this: every major OS has virtual desktops.
Have you, in your workplace, friends, family, the coffee shop, etc, ever seen anybody using virtual desktops? Even once?
I haven't.
Yes. Which just seems to bolster @Zecc's point.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@zecc Let me ask you this: every major OS has virtual desktops.
Have you, in your workplace, friends, family, the coffee shop, etc, ever seen anybody using virtual desktops? Even once?
I haven't.
No, I'm too busy minding my own virtual desktops.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@boomzilla said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Yes.
I do not believe you.
That's fair because I don't believe you either.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@boomzilla said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Yes.
I do not believe you.
Yes, I do and some co-workers do.
Will you believe me ?
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@timebandit Probably not. Any non-assholes want to weigh in?
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@blakeyrat Are you going to then counter with "no, that guy is an asshole, there are no non-assholes in this forum?"
Look, I'll concede that it is an underutilized feature and not for everybody; not even for most people.
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@blakeyrat When a terrible game crashes, and your mouse does not work, Win+D usually still does, and mouse control works perfectly on new desktops. So even for ending the task of badly designed games, virtual desktops have a use.
Admittedly, I do not personally use them for anything else.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Have you, in your workplace, friends, family, the coffee shop, etc, ever seen anybody using virtual desktops? Even once?
Linux: Yes, all the time. At my last three (at least) jobs, the default window manager has been configured with at least two; I've sometimes had as many as ten in use. And they're discoverable; there are thumbnails of each of them at the bottom right of the screen.
Windows: No. TIL they've actually been available, at least partially, for quite a few versions, but until 10 the only way to use them was to download some Sysinternals or 3rd-party tool to enable them. Even now that they're native in 10, I couldn't tell you how to use them without the help of my friend, Mr. Google.
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@zecc said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@blakeyrat Are you going to then counter with "no, that guy is an asshole, there are no non-assholes in this forum?"
I mean... I'm not sure he'd be wrong about the latter...
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@heterodox said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@zecc said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@blakeyrat Are you going to then counter with "no, that guy is an asshole, there are no non-assholes in this forum?"
I mean... I'm not sure he'd be wrong about the latter...
It doesn't matter. Statements like that are just how he copes with being obviously wrong.
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@boomzilla No; it's how I cope with people who sit at this forum and go out of their way to reply to all my posts with whatever lie makes me look as stupid and wrong as possible. Like you do, you gigantic piece of shit.
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@boomzilla said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Statements like that are just how he copes with being obviously wrong
The other way is muting the thread
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@boomzilla No; it's how I cope with people who sit at this forum and go out of their way to reply to all my posts with whatever lie makes me look as stupid and wrong as possible. Like you do, you gigantic piece of shit.
Hey, you're the one saying obviously dumb and incorrect things you gigantic idiot.
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@boomzilla Gee, I'm so sorry I called-out your lying ass as a liar.
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@hardwaregeek said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Even now that they're native in 10, I couldn't tell you how to use them without the help of my friend, Mr. Google.
Or reading my posts in this thread ;) It's + Tab
Or, you know, the icon on the taskbar that looks like virtual desktops.
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@maciejasjmj said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@weng said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
On the other hand, this in no way corresponds to how any actual people use computers.
It does. You know how when you open a PDF in a browser, it now usually opens it in a new tab instead of pulling up an entirely different application with its own window? And how if you actually want it in a separate window all you need to do is pull the tab out of the tab stack?
Imagine the UX like this working with every application. It's actually pretty nifty.
Except those of us who work with PDFs in the industry they were actually intended for have been royally fucked by that feature.
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@magus said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Or, you know, the icon on the taskbar that looks like virtual desktops.
The what? I don't have one of those... (oh yeah, I hid it since I don't want icons for things I don't use!)
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@dcon said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
The what? I don't have one of those... (oh yeah, I hid it since I don't want icons for things I don't use!)
If you don't want to use it, why are you looking for it? If you don't know what it's for, how do you know you don't want to use it?
No one is causing that issue but you.
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@magus said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@dcon said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
The what? I don't have one of those... (oh yeah, I hid it since I don't want icons for things I don't use!)
If you don't want to use it, why are you looking for it? If you don't know what it's for, how do you know you don't want to use it?
No one is causing that issue but you.
Just normal WTF ary. You said "it's here". By default, sure, but it's not there on my system!
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@boomzilla Gee, I'm so sorry I called-out your lying ass as a liar.
Liar. It's funny because you just keep asking for it and then whine when you get it.
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@magus said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
the icon on the taskbar that looks like virtual desktops
Ah, the Task View solution in search of a problem. I see that it does have the ability to create and manipulate multiple desktops (and I think I may have actually done that once); I forgot it did that. I generally completely ignore it, because Task View seems to me to be pointless for managing tasks on a single desktop, which is my normal use case in Windows.
Not that I think multiple desktops is a bad thing — as I said, I use them on Linux — but I've used a single Windows desktop for so long that I forget multiple desktops are possible. However, it's not as useful to me as on Linux, as I tend to have far fewer windows open and less clear separation of tasks than on Linux. It would be more useful at home, where I have more windows and more clear separation — music, gaming, 3-D modeling, web browsing — but I don't have Win10 there.
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@hardwaregeek said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Ah, the Task View solution in search of a problem. I see that it does have the ability to create and manipulate multiple desktops (and I think I may have actually done that once); I forgot it did that. I generally completely ignore it, because Task View seems to me to be pointless for managing tasks on a single desktop, which is my normal use case in Windows.
It looks like they intend to have the task view manage sets eventually. But as it is, I think I like it better than the Alt+Tab view.
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@magus said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
the Alt+Tab view
I rarely use that, either, unless something is broken (sometimes it works when Explorer is otherwise unresponsive) or I want to break out of a game that has captured the mouse. Sometimes when I want to switch quickly back and forth between two programs that I have full-screen. But 99% of the time I can switch to the window I want directly on the desktop or task bar, rather than Alt+Tab+Tab+Tab+Tab+Tab+Tab+Tab+Tab+Tab...
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@zecc It's the no true asshole fallacy.
I mean, everybody on this forum is an asshole by definition, but outside of here (IRL) I've never seen a mac user who doesn't use virtual desktops. Maybe that just says something about the people I know.
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@magus said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
Or, you know, the icon on the taskbar that looks nothing like virtual desktops.
I thought it's going to put the display in portrait or something.
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@weng said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@maciejasjmj said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
@weng said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
On the other hand, this in no way corresponds to how any actual people use computers.
It does. You know how when you open a PDF in a browser, it now usually opens it in a new tab instead of pulling up an entirely different application with its own window? And how if you actually want it in a separate window all you need to do is pull the tab out of the tab stack?
Imagine the UX like this working with every application. It's actually pretty nifty.
Except those of us who work with PDFs in the industry they were actually intended for have been royally fucked by that feature.
...how? I guess pdf.js or whatever Chrome uses is not very good, but now you can open it in actual Acrobat and not give up the convenience of having a tab for it, making pdf.js obsolete, so in a way it... unfucks that?
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@maciejasjmj I don't know that any icon does it well. The normal linux tiled numbered squares icon isn't really better. It just looks like you're going to open a windows start screen :D
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@topspin said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
I mean, everybody on this forum is an asshole by definition, but outside of here (IRL) I've never seen a mac user who doesn't use virtual desktops.
I just don't see the use case for them. If I'm working on something for a long time I usually have it fullscreen, sometimes side-by-side, and the odd floating window application like Keepass or Skype for Business I usually just bring up, deal with and move back below whatever I had open.
I never had a case where I thought "yep, that's a perfect window arrangement, I better save it while I work on that other thing!"
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@magus said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
The normal linux tiled numbered squares icon isn't really better.
On what DE ?
KDE with 4 desktops:
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I would use virtual desktops if they were per-monitor. Currently, Win 10 virtual desktops take up all monitors and I can't find any setting to change that.
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@maciejasjmj said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
If I'm working on something for a long time I usually have it fullscreen, sometimes side-by-side
On mac, those are already on a separate virtual desktop.
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@timebandit Yeah, those certainly make it easy to tell what they do.
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@maciejasjmj Modern web browsers are REAL fucking enthusiastic about PDF.js
To the point that once you download the fucking PDF, if you try to open it from the fucking download UI in the browser, it opens it in the browser instead of bothering to see what the default is.
So what used to be:
Click link in email, click PDF in download UI, see AcrobatIs now:
Click link in email. Get stupid preview pane. Click "show me it for real", opens in PDF.js. Click download button. Click context menu on download UI, click "view in folder", right click, edit in Acrobat, see Acrobat (the last step is because corpofuck IThi hijacks the PDF binding to Acrobat Reader all the time)
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If you hover your mouse, it tells you the desktop name and the list of app running on it.
If you click it, you get to that desktop.
But, I guess, it's way less obvious than the Win10 icon
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@timebandit said in Microsoft sees the future of Windows 10 as "Sets":
But, I guess, it's way less obvious than the Win10 icon
I'm saying they're both fairly dumb, but the Windows one at least animates when you mouse over, and looks like it controls which rectangle is active.