Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2
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It's just too hard to keep that headphone jack in...
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TBH, I don't remember when was the last time I plugged anything into my phone's jack. Certainly not in the last two years. But then, I don't listen to music.
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@gąska said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
TBH, I don't remember when was the last time I plugged anything into my phone's jack. Certainly not in the last two years. But then, I don't listen to music.
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
I’m confused.
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@kt_ Isn't it a usual pattern? I think Apple also got a lot of criticism when the first iMac didn't have a 3,5" floppy drive, but in the end they were just one of the first to embrace the future.
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google
Motorola beat Apple to it.
I still think it's a stupid move, and when I replace my phone I'll be making sure to get one with a jack.
Just barely acceptable would be two USB C ports, so at least charging and listening to music wouldn't have to be mutually exclusive choices.
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@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google
Motorola beat Apple to it.
I still think it's a stupid move, and when I replace my phone I'll be making sure to get one with a jack.
Just barely acceptable would be two USB C ports, so at least charging and listening to music wouldn't have to be mutually exclusive choices.
Two words: wireless charging.
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@kt_ so I have to spend more on a charging pad as well, and keep my phone precisely in place rather than being able to move it around? The future is here!
Also, that argument doesn't work for the iPhone 7
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@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ so I have to spend more on a charging pad as well, and keep my phone precisely in place rather than being able to move it around?
Well, yes. Why would you move it around, while you’re charging it? :/ why would you listen to music, while charging not, having come to that?
Also, that argument doesn't work for the iPhone 7
Yes, it doesn’t. TBH, removing the jack and wireless charging should’ve been synchronized.
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Why would you move it around, while you’re charging it? why would you listen to music, while charging not, having come to that?
Why, oh why do you insist on ? Do we need to send you to the Apple Reeducation Camp? Also you're not supposed to hold the phone like that.
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@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
so at least charging and listening to music wouldn't have to be mutually exclusive choices.
https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Connector-Converter-Charging-Motorola/dp/B0714DYLW4
???
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
No, it's still a stupid idea. And the reason why I hate Apple's current practices - not because their own devices are gimped, for all I care Apple customers can rot in the hell they themselves enabled, but because companies like Google and HTC see Apple cutting down features and still racking in numbers, and deducing "hey, they must be doing it right, let's fuck up our new phones too!"
Apple has the comfortable position where they can do literally anything and their customers will defend them for it and still buy the new iPhone. They could have iPhone 9 do nothing a phone does and actually be an axe murderer that will murder you in your sleep, and Apple fanboys would be out in the Internet convincing you how living is a thing of the past and you should embrace the sweet release of death. And instead of using that to push out the bleeding edge of new technologies, they take things away and say "hey, you didn't need that anyway".
That's not innovation. Removing the headphone jack, or the SIM card slot on the watch, or the SD cards, or removable batteries - it's not an improvement, it doesn't make the phone better, just easier to manufacture, and it doesn't take any creativity or prowess to do so. All it takes is balls to go ahead with it, and with Apple having an enormous supply of balls of every single customer of theirs, they're not going to run out of that anytime soon.
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@maciejasjmj said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Why would you move it around, while you’re charging it? why would you listen to music, while charging not, having come to that?
Why, oh why do you insist on ? Do we need to send you to the Apple Reeducation Camp? Also you're not supposed to hold the phone like that.
Exactly!
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@maciejasjmj said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
No, it's still a stupid idea. And the reason why I hate Apple's current practices - not because their own devices are gimped, for all I care Apple customers can rot in the hell they themselves enabled, but because companies like Google and HTC see Apple cutting down features and still racking in numbers, and deducing "hey, they must be doing it right, let's fuck up our new phones too!"
Apple has the comfortable position where they can do literally anything and their customers will defend them for it and still buy the new iPhone. They could have iPhone 9 do nothing a phone does and actually be an axe murderer that will murder you in your sleep, and Apple fanboys would be out in the Internet convincing you how living is a thing of the past and you should embrace the sweet release of death. And instead of using that to push out the bleeding edge of new technologies, they take things away and say "hey, you didn't need that anyway".
That's not innovation. Removing the headphone jack, or the SIM card slot on the watch, or the SD cards, or removable batteries - it's not an improvement, it doesn't make the phone better, just easier to manufacture, and it doesn't take any creativity or prowess to do so. All it takes is balls to go ahead with it, and with Apple having an enormous supply of balls of every single customer of theirs, they're not going to run out of that anytime soon.
There, there. Here, have a blanket and a of cocoa.
Are you feeling better now?
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Here, have a blanket and a of cocoa.
*sips*
That's Nescafé, you cunt.
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@maciejasjmj said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Here, have a blanket and a of cocoa.
*sips*
That's Nescafé, you cunt.
It’s a cocoa and vanilla flavored Nescafé Silver Gold Cappucion coffee powder v 2.0. You should be honored to be offered such a treat.
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
It’s a cocoa and vanilla flavored Nescafé Silver Gold Cappucion coffee powder v 2.0.
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@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Just barely acceptable would be two USB C ports, so at least charging and listening to music wouldn't have to be mutually exclusive choices.
I think with USB C you can use a hub for that?
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@pleegwat What, an extra dongle?
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@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I think with USB C you can use a hub for that?
You can use a pass through, yeah.
So, with Apple having switched I don't really see a lot of the adoption of headphones using Thunderbolt in retail stores... I'm hoping with Google switching we'll see a little more? I'm conflicted, because not only are we switching from a well-established standard but we're switching to two standards. On the other side, the 3.5mm jack has that problem where it gets "wiggly" and the audio turns to trash or cuts out on one side. I have that problem with my iPhone earbuds right now. I think that's much less likely to occur using either Thunderbolt or USB-C. So on that front I'd love to switch.
Side note, I couldn't find any normal headphones and, out of curiosity, plugged in the USB OTG adapter into my Pixel and then put my gaming headset's transmitter into it. Blew me away by working perfectly. No fucking way that would work on an iPhone.
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@heterodox said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
On the other side, the 3.5mm jack has that problem where it gets "wiggly" and the audio turns to trash or cuts out on one side.
I don't know if I've ever had that happen with the jack, but I think whenever I've had earbuds crap out it's usually been the wire.
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@gąska I use the bluetooth thing for podcasts, but it barely works. Constantly have to fiddling with it, or restart the phone, or tell the car to reconnect, or whatever. Bluetooth is satan tech.
I'd be ok with getting rid of the headphone port if and only if the thing they replaced it with was FAR superior to that broken shit technology known as Bluetooth.
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
removing the jack and wireless charging should’ve been synchronized.
You don't understand The Apple Way™ at all.
Each tiny incremental step is there to sell phones. You make one change then sell millions of phones.
Then you make another incremental step and sell more phones.
Why would you bundle changes and sell less phones ?
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@heterodox said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
On the other side, the 3.5mm jack has that problem where it gets "wiggly" and the audio turns to trash or cuts out on one side.
Are you sure that is not the headphones? I have never had a headphone jack fail, but I go through a few sets of headphones per year because the wires fail.
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@polygeekery said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@heterodox said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
On the other side, the 3.5mm jack has that problem where it gets "wiggly" and the audio turns to trash or cuts out on one side.
Are you sure that is not the headphones? I have never had a headphone jack fail, but I go through a few sets of headphones per year because the wires fail.
It's a shame headphone manufacturers don't seem to embrace replaceable wires - my PXC450s have a wire that can be replaced for relatively cheap ($10 here - compared to how much the headphones cost that's really nice), and although I've never actually had to do that since the wire itself is really solid, it's really nice to have that option instead of having to solder the wires yourself.
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@maciejasjmj You can buy headphones like that. The ones I have fail are the cheapy ones I keep in my laptop bag. I see them as a disposable item. I spend less than $10 per set anyway.
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@maciejasjmj My noise cancellers, which weren't very expensive (I think about $90?), have a replaceable cord.
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@gąska said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
TBH, I don't remember when was the last time I plugged anything into my phone's jack. Certainly not in the last two years. But then, I don't listen to music.
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
I’m confused.
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Look, the question is simple: in a world where everyone used USB-C ports for headphones, would they invent 3.5mm jacks? Probably not.
@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Just barely acceptable would be two USB C ports, so at least charging and listening to music wouldn't have to be mutually exclusive choices.
Yes, this would be nice.
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@anonymous234 said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Look, the question is simple: in a world where everyone used USB-C ports for headphones, would they invent 3.5mm jacks? Probably not.
Mu. There are almost no USB3 headphones on the market and seemingly no one is adopting that standard. If they were globally phasing out jacks in favor of USB3, including devices other than phones then it would probably be fine. Pointless, since the jack is perfectly serviceable, but fine.
But they take away the jack and force you to go wireless or use a dongle, which takes up your charging port and probably won't be an option for long since wired chargers are next up against the wall and phone manufacturers have a phobia of ports.
And wireless isn't a replacement for wired headphones the way a different connector would be - sound quality can be sorted out by throwing science and time at the problem, but I for one don't appreciate having yet another device I'd need to regularly charge.
Counter-question - if given a choice of two identical phones at the same price, one with the jack and other without, how many people would willingly choose the one without the jack, and why?
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@maciejasjmj I believe all of audio Technica's MX headphones have replaceable wires (maybe not the low end ones). I agree, this should be standard for any non-dirt cheap headphones
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Well, yes. Why would you move it around, while you’re charging it? why would you listen to music, while charging not, having come to that?
At one time, products tended to be built according to their use.
Now they dictate to us how to use them.
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@grunnen said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ Isn't it a usual pattern? I think Apple also got a lot of criticism when the first iMac didn't have a 3,5" floppy drive, but in the end they were just one of the first to embrace the future.
It's not embracing the future to remove a device that people are still using.
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@kt_ Is wireless charging going to keep up with powering a phone running a GPS and streaming music in a car on a roadtrip? Because real chargers have problems with that.
And Bluetooth can get fucked.
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@weng said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ Is wireless charging going to keep up with powering a phone running a GPS and streaming music in a car on a roadtrip? Because real chargers have problems with that.
Dont have a faintest idea. I hope they will, otherwise it’ll be useless.
And Bluetooth can get fucked.
You mean, streaming via Bluetooth?
Actually, the car I took for the last road trip support d CarPlay, so I could simply plug the cable in and it would actually charge the phone and stream music and Apple Maps throughout the whole trip. And I mean, it actually did charge it to 100%, while it was so heavily in use.
I really liked it, it seems like the right way to go for phone support in cars.
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@kt_ Yeah. Except that's unlikely to ever wind up happening in the 30+ year old heaps I do 90% of my long range driving in
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@timebandit said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
removing the jack and wireless charging should’ve been synchronized.
You don't understand The Apple Way™ at all.
Each tiny incremental step is there to sell phones. You make one change then sell millions of phones.
Then you make another incremental step and sell more phones.
Why would you bundle changes and sell less phones ?
Well, I’m not really sure it’s The Apple Way, it seems like it’s something that a lot of manufacturers do. I’m not sure if that’s due to the fact that they want to make more money with incremental changes, or if that’s a natural way of working within the tight limits of yearly phone launches.
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@weng said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ Yeah. Except that's unlikely to ever wind up happening in the 30+ year old heaps I do 90% of my long range driving in
Oh yeah, definitely.
Unfortunately, I don’t know how well wireless car chargers work. This could be real issue for you, if they aren’t able to keep up.
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@kt_ Wireless charging in general basically doesn't work IME.
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@weng said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ Wireless charging in general basically doesn't work IME.
It works, but it's very slow. Not appropriate for heavy use at all.
I'm not a fan of the change. At least I can get a USB-C-to-2.5 dongle for like $2, but I'm still not a fan.
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I was already a little iffy about the pixel, given its price tag, but the idea of paying more for less/paying more so that I can buy more accessories to replace my current ones just isn't appealing, given the current technology.
If I can get earbuds that last a week and don't cost an arm and a leg for the same audio quality as my current ones, then maybe.
I'm not sure what I'm going to switch to when my nexus 5x dies, though. maybe something smaller -- I kind of like the SE's size. I think sony makes compact smartphones...
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I was already a little iffy about the pixel, given its price tag
...
I'm not sure what I'm going to switch to when my nexus 5x dies, though.
The nice thing is, as soon as the Pixel 2 is out, the first Pixel will sell for a lot less, and it still has a headphone jack.
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I was already a little iffy about the pixel, given its price tag, but the idea of paying more for less/paying more so that I can buy more accessories to replace my current ones just isn't appealing, given the current technology.
If I can get earbuds that last a week and don't cost an arm and a leg for the same audio quality as my current ones, then maybe.
I'm not sure what I'm going to switch to when my nexus 5x dies, though. maybe something smaller -- I kind of like the SE's size. I think sony makes compact smartphones...
Well, the price difference is only like $2 for most use cases (using phone to listen to music without trying to charge it too). So I wouldn't really let that change alone change your mind if you like the Nexus/Pixel line. It's obnoxious though...
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
It works, but it's very slow. Not appropriate for heavy use at all.
I have to figure out whether it's the power draw or the fuse or something, but when I charge my Nexus 6P in the car (via a cigarette-lighter adapter and a USB-C cable), it causes my tire pressure sensor system to flake out after about 10 miles/15 minutes. I thought it was just the sensor going bad, but then when my dash mount fell off its base and I didn't put it back for a couple months the problem went away. I tried using the charge cable again a couple weeks ago, and BAM. Same thing happens again.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
It works, but it's very slow. Not appropriate for heavy use at all.
I have to figure out whether it's the power draw or the fuse or something, but when I charge my Nexus 6P in the car (via a cigarette-lighter adapter and a USB-C cable), it causes my tire pressure sensor system to flake out after about 10 miles/15 minutes. I thought it was just the sensor going bad, but then when my dash mount fell off its base and I didn't put it back for a couple months the problem went away. I tried using the charge cable again a couple weeks ago, and BAM. Same thing happens again.
Hmm. Is it a high-speed charger? It might be more power draw than the system is used to, although if that much draw causes that particular failure mode... That's concerning. It could also be RFI from the charger...
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@maciejasjmj said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Mu. There are almost no USB3 headphones on the market and seemingly no one is adopting that standard. If they were globally phasing out jacks in favor of USB3, including devices other than phones then it would probably be fine. Pointless, since the jack is perfectly serviceable, but fine.
Isn't that what they are doing? Obviously it's going to take a long time, and Google doesn't control other devices.
But they take away the jack and force you to go wireless or use a dongle, which takes up your charging port and probably won't be an option for long since wired chargers are next up against the wall and phone manufacturers have a phobia of ports.
Yes, they definitely should add a second port. But no one's trying to make you go wireless.
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@sloosecannon Yeah, it's supposed to be a higher-amp charger (I think it's 2 or 3 amp? I'd have to check when I go out to the car when I leave work) to facilitate the Rapid Charging that the phone has.
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@sloosecannon yeah that's true. seems kind of silly to have to carry a little dongle in my pocket all day though
i dunno, it just seems half-assed and a step backwards. also fuck google for making fun of apple for removing the jack, and then doing the exact same thing a year later -- this reminds me of how online videogames these days usually have some sort of randomized crate / key system where you get random loot but have to pay money to open the box. the only party that gains from it is the developer/publisher, which rakes in money from people trying to unlock new stuff.
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sloosecannon yeah that's true. seems kind of silly to have to carry a little dongle in my pocket all day though
i dunno, it just seems half-assed and a step backwards. also fuck google for making fun of apple for removing the jack, and then doing the exact same thing a year later -- this reminds me of how online videogames these days usually have some sort of randomized crate / key system where you get random loot but have to pay money to open the box. the only party that gains from it is the developer/publisher, which rakes in money from people trying to unlock new stuff.
Yeah, agreed. I'd like to hear their justification for it - if there is any. I can't think of a reason to remove the jack, but maybe there is one?
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I can't think of a reason to remove the jack, but maybe there is one?
from what I've read, its:
- waterproofing (s7/s8 are waterproof with a headphone jack, so /shrug)
- thinner phone (iphone 7 and pixel 2 aren't thinner than the previous versions, so...)
- more size for battery (I'm no electronics designer so I can't speak to this. maybe it lets you rearrange stuff)
- (apple only) higher audio quality because it's digital, not analog
I think the secret one that they're not talking about is
- it's a little extra profit!