Goodbye
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
Considering I had a debate about anarchism in the garage not too long ago that never resorted to name-calling
To be fair, I did say that you guys are pretty shitty anarchists. Too many rules. ;)
Seriously, there can be really sane and respectful conversations on politics here. You just have to approach it the proper way. You should also expect to be responded to in kind.
Yeah, but that isn't offensive to me.
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@heterodox said in Goodbye:
It's a problem that's just inherent to language. I don't think discussion can be coherent if everyone stops every time to clarify exactly which subgroup they mean. If you apply a label to yourself, you have to understand the label when used by other people may not be the same label. If someone's generalizing about SJWs being lunatics, you have to ask yourself "Am I the same kind of SJW they're talking about?" If you're not a lunatic, the answer is probably no. Same thing if someone's generalizing about Christians being intolerant. If you're not intolerant, you're not who they're talking about.
I see an error in your logic. Lunatics never think they are lunatics.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
I see an error in your logic.
BUT I'LL NEVER ADMIT IT. I'LL JUST BLAME YOUR READING COMPREHENSION.
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Seriously though, I do not get this whole mentality that those of the liberal slant or whatever else do not feel welcome on the forums or in the garage or anywhere else. @Jaloopa is one notable one that is very liberal and I do not think that anyone has ever been nasty to him in the garage. I am pretty damned sure that I never have been. @Groaner has a liberal slant also and participates in garage threads all the time. My brain is kind of mush right now, so I cannot think of others, but just being a liberal does not make you a punching bag in the garage. Not at all.
Now...if you cannot accept criticism of your ideas and tend to offend easily...you should probably stay out. Other than that, respect and be respected. And please do not think that criticizing something that you believe is the same as criticizing you personally. It is not.
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...and since it has been brought up...I do not think anyone has been criticized for being gay. Not even in the garage. I can think of two people that came out of the forum closet in the garage. Maybe three? (I cannot remember if the third was in the garage or not) and absolutely nothing happened of it. No matter your sexuality or whatever else, you are still a person. Even the hardcore Christians have taken the stance of "I do not agree with your sexuality, but it is none of my business".
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@timebandit said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
My brain is kind of mush right now
Get back to me in 4ish hours.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
I do not agree with your sexuality, but it is none of my business
As long as it's happening between consenting adults, why should we care ?
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@yamikuronue I just noticed there are about 70 more posts in the thread so replying is a bit of a faux pas, but still: I wrote a lot of posts that I ultimately didn't send, too. It's not just you, and it's not just "your side".
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Holy shit, how many people are watching this thread? I got three upvotes in like 10 seconds.
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I wrote a lot of posts that I ultimately didn't send, too.
I should probably try that sometime...
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@blek The sun eclipse is over, what else are we supposed to do ?
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I wrote a lot of posts that I ultimately didn't send, too. It's not just you, and it's not just "your side".
Others prefer to hit send, then proceed to delete it
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
Seriously though, I do not get this whole mentality that those of the liberal slant or whatever else do not feel welcome on the forums or in the garage or anywhere else.
I can kind of see where @asdf's first bullet point comes from, but I don't think that's exclusive to the forums. I think in general the last few years have seen (semi-)reasonable discussion on the Internet be replaced with sardonic mockery of the strawmen of one's opponents. Why waste time preparing a long-form analysis about why exactly SJWs are a problem in today's society when you can just make a snarky meme about MUH TRIGGERING and get a pat on the back from like-minded people?
That's part of why I re-muted the Garage - the idea of a Fight Club isn't as much fun when you get punched in the face every day as soon as you leave your door.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
Why waste time preparing a long-form analysis about why exactly SJWs are a problem in today's society when you can just make a snarky meme about MUH TRIGGERING and get a pat on the back from like-minded people?
Well, to be fair, that is not really the point of most of the threads in the garage. We used to post that same stuff in the open forums in the various humor sections. The threads are not treatises. They are humor threads.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
The threads are not treatises. They are humor threads.
Except condescension is not very funny. You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor". And 2017's brand of humor is just that, making fun of an imaginary opponent and patting yourself on the back how much smarter you are than them.
There's a world of difference between George Carlin ripping apart religion and a random shitpost on r/atheism about how dumb religion is, and it's not just because Carlin makes actual jokes.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor".
Why not?
Also, can you point to a post in the garage that is what you say it is? Most all of them make fun of articles that real, actual people wrote.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
The threads are not treatises. They are humor threads.
Except condescension is not very funny. You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor". And 2017's brand of humor is just that, making fun of an imaginary opponent and patting yourself on the back how much smarter you are than them.
There's a world of difference between George Carlin ripping apart religion and a random shitpost on r/atheism about how dumb religion is, and it's not just because Carlin makes actual jokes.
That isn't everything in the garage, either. Some of that happens in the garage, but that is not all of the content on there.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
The threads are not treatises. They are humor threads.
Except condescension is not very funny. You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor". And 2017's brand of humor is just that, making fun of an imaginary opponent and patting yourself on the back how much smarter you are than them.
There's a world of difference between George Carlin ripping apart religion and a random shitpost on r/atheism about how dumb religion is, and it's not just because Carlin makes actual jokes.
That isn't everything in the garage, either. Some of that happens in the garage, but that is not all of the content on there.
Are you saying that his argument is a strawman?
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
The threads are not treatises. They are humor threads.
Except condescension is not very funny. You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor". And 2017's brand of humor is just that, making fun of an imaginary opponent and patting yourself on the back how much smarter you are than them.
There's a world of difference between George Carlin ripping apart religion and a random shitpost on r/atheism about how dumb religion is, and it's not just because Carlin makes actual jokes.
That isn't everything in the garage, either. Some of that happens in the garage, but that is not all of the content on there.
Are you saying that his argument is a strawman?
Now that you mention it, yes. It is a bit of a strawman. Also, he has yet to provide any citations.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor".
Why not?
Also, can you point to a post in the garage that is what you say it is? Most all of them make fun of articles that real, actual people wrote.
@polygeekery said in YouTube is making their own echo chamber:
@boomzilla said in YouTube is making their own echo chamber:
@polygeekery said in YouTube is making their own echo chamber:
You might disagree with Lauren Southern, but they shut down her account before they shut down IGD.
I have never heard her called a white nationalist before.
Weak example, but I'm not digging further, too much work. There's a joke here (kinda), but it's also wankery of the first degree, and to me that just doesn't make it funny when you know the author thinks of you less as a person.
EDIT: "The author" meaning "whoever drew this picture", not necessarily you.
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@maciejasjmj Funny, but that seems like exactly the sort of picture someone would send to someone who doesn't think of them as a person.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor".
Why not?
Also, can you point to a post in the garage that is what you say it is? Most all of them make fun of articles that real, actual people wrote.
@polygeekery said in YouTube is making their own echo chamber:
@boomzilla said in YouTube is making their own echo chamber:
@polygeekery said in YouTube is making their own echo chamber:
You might disagree with Lauren Southern, but they shut down her account before they shut down IGD.
I have never heard her called a white nationalist before.
Weak example, but I'm not digging further, too much work. There's a joke here (kinda), but it's also wankery of the first degree, and to me that just doesn't make it funny when you know the author thinks of you less as a person.
EDIT: "The author" meaning "whoever drew this picture", not necessarily you.
That comment chain was directed at me, and I didn't find it wankery of the first degree.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
Seriously though, I do not get this whole mentality that those of the liberal slant or whatever else do not feel welcome on the forums or in the garage or anywhere else. @Jaloopa is one notable one that is very liberal and I do not think that anyone has ever been nasty to him in the garage. I am pretty damned sure that I never have been. @Groaner has a liberal slant also and participates in garage threads all the time. My brain is kind of mush right now, so I cannot think of others, but just being a liberal does not make you a punching bag in the garage. Not at all.
Now...if you cannot accept criticism of your ideas and tend to offend easily...you should probably stay out. Other than that, respect and be respected. And please do not think that criticizing something that you believe is the same as criticizing you personally. It is not.
Well, to be honest, I can't agree with your argument in its entirety. Discussing politics is hard here and it's especially hard if you're not a person who can truly spend hours constructing your argument, sitting in front of the PC, rebutting arguments.
The thing about garage and the thing about this forum (and the thing about politics, come to that) is, there's a lot field for knee-jerk reactions, scornful and overd dramatic comments. And I'm not even blaming anyone here, it's natural. We post from mobile here, for chrissake, we post when on the shitter, we post when driving a bus, I bet there are people who have posted while driving, too. (Or at least while waiting for a light to turn green.)
This is why I decided not to engage in garage with a good success, I come there very rarely.
Outside of there, I like it here. Sure, @blakeyrat's posts are depressing, but he is depressed and quite often right; sure, trolling is the norm here, but it's mostly the cool kind of trolling, at least outside of where we keep the buses.
However, this is only how I feel this. And I'm not surprised by reactions like @asdf's. Because even outside of garage it can get nasty, and if you're already feeling stressed out and burnt out by having to spot and block threads that trigger you, a lot of posts from general threads can seem garage-y. And that's because they are.
One thought I got writing this: to the garage crowd. That you know that you respect one another, doesn't mean that other know that. And that some things you say aren't really attacks on others because they're inside jokes or you know they won't be interpreted as attacks by these particular persons, doesn't mean the crowd that don't like the oil and grease coming from the shop will know that. I sincerely think that some of the bad feelings that people around here get come from this kind of misunderstandings.
The worst thing that happens around here is the "you've gotta have thick skin" idea. It's not reddit, it's not totally anonymous people doing what they want. We know each other, we've known each other for years now or almost years. It's all a lot more personal.
That's why it sometimes hurts so bad, but why it also can feel so good.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@Jaloopa is one notable one that is very liberal
I'm only very liberal by the standards of you American right wing nut jobs. In my homeland I'm probably not centre left, but not too far
and I do not think that anyone has ever been nasty to him in the garage
I pick my battles, and don't get into slagging matches. I try to keep to the topic at hand and don't let what some idiot on the internet says bother me too much.
I think a lot of the reason for the perception of the garage and the forum in general as being threatening to anyone left of Mussolini is that we have some very loud lefties who don't argue very well, and some very loud righties who argue extremely well, even though they're wrong. And xaade, who nobody understands but seems to be on the side of the conservatives
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
Even the hardcore Christians have taken the stance of "I do not agree with your sexuality, but it is none of my business".
Yeah, this doesn't really help. Sorry.
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That comment chain was directed at me, and I didn't find it wankery of the first degree.
As an SJW, it's my job to be offended on your behalf
But it is wankery. The joke here is "you're a whiny manbaby" and... that's it. That doesn't pass as comedy in my book, it's just a somewhat draped insult.
@maciejasjmj Funny, but that seems like exactly the sort of picture someone would send to someone who doesn't think of them as a person.
Would that make it a good rebuttal?
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@maciejasjmj It's a tool for people for whom saying 'Godwin' goes over their head.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
You can't just make up a strawman, point at it and laugh and call it "humor".
Why not?
Also, can you point to a post in the garage that is what you say it is? Most all of them make fun of articles that real, actual people wrote.
But the words and meanings get blown up. The @PJH's one from the garage, with the medical document with recommendations for doctors, for example. It was an important and interesting document that got ripped apart because people just wanted to read it like a Reddit thread.
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@maciejasjmj It's a tool for people for whom saying 'Godwin' goes over their head.
I'd say Godwin stops being applicable when literal neo-nazis get involved, but that's probably something that belongs in a thread in the garage, not about the garage.
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@maciejasjmj Yeah, but that's the thing: To the best of my knowledge, none of those exist here. There are only people who make claims that they are. And are wrong. One less of them lately, at least.
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One thought I got writing this: to the garage crowd. That you know that you respect one another, doesn't mean that other know that. And that some things you say aren't really attacks on others because they're inside jokes or you know they won't be interpreted as attacks by these particular persons, doesn't mean the crowd that don't like the oil and grease coming from the shop will know that. I sincerely think that some of the bad feelings that people around here get come from this kind of misunderstandings.
Yeah. One should also realize that the hardcore garage denizens are also mostly pretty self-deprecating. It is not that we have thick skin really. It is that we make good-natured fun of ourselves so much that ribbing does not get to us. FFS, 3 out of 5 posts @TimeBandit makes to me is calling me an alcoholic. That does not bother me. I know it is good-natured fun.
Now, it we could get @masonwheeler to realize all of this, most of the downvoting in the garage would stop. ;)
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@maciejasjmj Yeah, but that's the thing: To the best of my knowledge, none of those exist here. There are only people who make claims that they are. And are wrong. One less of them lately, at least.
I don't think anybody accused anyone here of being a literal neo-nazi, at least not in the scope of this discussion. I know the vulpine one had his... moments, but I'm actually not sure even he went that far.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
That does not bother me. I know it is
good-natured fun.trueSeriously dude, get some help. Or at least buy stuff nicer than JD, there are some seriously nice bourbons out there even if you don't want to betray your country by admitting that Scotch is the best whiskey
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@maciejasjmj Yeah, but that's the thing: To the best of my knowledge, none of those exist here. There are only people who make claims that they are. And are wrong. One less of them lately, at least.
I don't think anybody accused anyone here of being a literal neo-nazi, at least not in the scope of this discussion. I know the vulpine one had his... moments, but I'm actually not sure even he went that far.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had, but then again it's neither here nor there.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
That comment chain was directed at me, and I didn't find it wankery of the first degree.
As an SJW, it's my job to be offended on your behalf
But it is wankery. The joke here is "you're a whiny manbaby" and... that's it. That doesn't pass as comedy in my book, it's just a somewhat draped insult.
@maciejasjmj Funny, but that seems like exactly the sort of picture someone would send to someone who doesn't think of them as a person.
Would that make it a good rebuttal?
Not really. Your "rebuttal" was just opinion.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
Yeah. One should also realize that the hardcore garage denizens are also mostly pretty self-deprecating. It is not that we have thick skin really. It is that we make good-natured fun of ourselves so much that ribbing does not get to us. FFS, 3 out of 5 posts @TimeBandit makes to me is calling me an alcoholic. That does not bother me. I know it is good-natured fun.
And that's the point - if I call you an alcoholic, or you call me a silly kid, it's good-natured fun. If I call you a fucking Nazi, or you call me a useful idiot, it's not good-natured fun, it's flinging feces.
Seriously dude, get some help. Or at least buy stuff nicer than
JDwhiskeyI mean, it's the Nescafé of alcohols
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I propose to reactivate the bot that posts a topic for front-page articles.
I think these topics were a good inspiration for discussion and sharing stories.
It would be a refreshing alternative to the long derailed 1k+ post topics, or pointless discussions of USA politics.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@adynathos said in Goodbye:
front-page articles.
The what now?
I'm guessing he means the actual
main page, not the forums.
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@jaloopa I have those also. I like Jack and Coke. Mixing really good stuff with Coke would be sacriligious.
There is usually some Pappy Vanwinkle around here. Balvenie also. I also keep vodka, tequila, gin and rum on hand along with various beers and wines. Variety is the spice of life.
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@jaloopa I have those also. I like Jack and Coke. Mixing really good stuff with Coke would be sacriligious.
There is usually some Pappy Vanwinkle around here. Balvenie also. I also keep vodka, tequila, gin and rum on hand along with various beers and wines. Variety is the spice of life.
Do you have any mead?
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
And that's the point - if I call you an alcoholic, or you call me a silly kid, it's good-natured fun. If I call you a fucking Nazi, or you call me a useful idiot, it's not good-natured fun, it's flinging feces.
Why? I called @boomzilla a "methed out ferret" earlier today. I get called an asshole on here all the time. I just thank them for using my preferred pronoun.
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
I don't think anybody accused anyone here of being a literal neo-nazi, at least not in the scope of this discussion. I know the vulpine one had his... moments, but I'm actually not sure even he went that far.
He did. Multiple times. He even called me "wannabe Fuhrer of the forums".
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@jaloopa I have those also. I like Jack and Coke. Mixing really good stuff with Coke would be sacriligious.
There is usually some Pappy Vanwinkle around here. Balvenie also. I also keep vodka, tequila, gin and rum on hand along with various beers and wines. Variety is the spice of life.
Do you have any mead?
Do I act like a fucking hipster?
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@maciejasjmj said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
Yeah. One should also realize that the hardcore garage denizens are also mostly pretty self-deprecating. It is not that we have thick skin really. It is that we make good-natured fun of ourselves so much that ribbing does not get to us. FFS, 3 out of 5 posts @TimeBandit makes to me is calling me an alcoholic. That does not bother me. I know it is good-natured fun.
And that's the point - if I call you an alcoholic, or you call me a silly kid, it's good-natured fun. If I call you a fucking Nazi, or you call me a useful idiot, it's not good-natured fun, it's flinging feces.
Seriously dude, get some help. Or at least buy stuff nicer than
JDwhiskeyI mean, it's the Nescafé of alcohols
I don't know what you mean but it seems you're bashing Nescafé. Now this thread is gonna burn!
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@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@polygeekery said in Goodbye:
@jaloopa I have those also. I like Jack and Coke. Mixing really good stuff with Coke would be sacriligious.
There is usually some Pappy Vanwinkle around here. Balvenie also. I also keep vodka, tequila, gin and rum on hand along with various beers and wines. Variety is the spice of life.
Do you have any mead?
Do I act like a fucking hipster?
But, I have mead.... Also, I wasn't aware that is considered to be a hipster drink.
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@polygeekery I bet you have a beard and wear flannel shirts
