Boycott Amazon!!
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[Said Margaret Hodge, MP in the opposition party, and not adverse to being accused of tax-evasion or avoidance herself]: "I hope people take a leaf out of my book and stop using Amazon. I don’t use them at all and I would urge everyone to do the same. If we stop using Amazon then they may understand how angry their customers are."
Meanwhile, in totally unrelated news:
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The article doesn't really go into detail. What are the tax arrangements that she's opposed to?
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@dangeruss Amazon used to funnel much of it's European business through a shell company in Luxembourg, I think there are still be suspicions that it's still shifting profits around to avoid tax. Recently it reported substantially increased turnover while paying less tax, which may have provoked the latest criticism.
Part of this is just sour-grapes, looking greedily at any successful foreign company. Part is a general dislike of Amazon's exploitative business practices (+ a zillion other links).
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@japonicus said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Part of this is just sour-grapes, looking greedily at any successful foreign company.
I suspect it's in part because Amazon get a lot of income from selling goods and services to customers in the UK without paying nearly as much tax on that income as many of their competitors do…
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@japonicus said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@dangeruss Amazon used to funnel much of it's European business through a shell company in Luxembourg, I think there are still be suspicions that it's still shifting profits around to avoid tax. Recently it reported substantially increased turnover while paying less tax, which may have provoked the latest criticism.
Part of this is just sour-grapes, looking greedily at any successful foreign company. Part is a general dislike of Amazon's exploitative business practices (+ a zillion other links).
It's particularly funny that this is coming from the UK. In light of the fact that they tried to block EU legislature which would hinder such shenanigans because it would also hinder their own British version of the shell game.
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@dangeruss said in Boycott Amazon!!:
What are the tax arrangements that she's opposed to?
Essentially, but she'd be the last to admit, the fact that the UK government taxes profits made in the UK, not turnover.
And since Amazon books so little profit in the UK, but have a massive turnover, apparently Amazon are partaking of illegal tax-evasion, when the reality is more like (but perhaps not entirely) legal tax-avoidance and by-the-letter-law-of-the-EU tax-planning.
The last of which has certain "tax them to the hilt" lot a tad hot under the collar, because they deceptively call it the first two while actually describing what they would like to be happening is taxing their turnover regardless.
Richard Murphy, ex-tax-accountant, one-fifth of a professor[2] (he might be a bit more now) and ex non-economic adviser to the Labour Party[1] also has lots of experience in this area.
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@pjh said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Essentially, but she'd be the last to admit, the fact that the UK government taxes profits made in the UK, not turnover.
And since Amazon books so little profit in the UK, but have a massive turnover,Wait, what's "turnover"?
When I hear that term used in conjunction with a business, it refers to the rate at which employees leave and have to be replaced. From the context, this is almost certainly not what you're referring to, so what do you mean here?
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@masonwheeler It's not exactly an esoteric term
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@jaloopa said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Business turnover is a numeric value representing total sales. It is essentially the value of sales you make in a set period.
Why not just say "gross revenue" then, which is a much more familiar (and less ambiguous) term?
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@masonwheeler said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Wait, what's "turnover"?
How much money passes through your till, regardless of whether it'll be used for rent, utilities, to play employees, for raw stock or if it's not spent on anything, ends up as profit.
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@masonwheeler Maybe it's a UK specific term, but it's perfectly familiar to me and I'm not even a businessman. The turnover you're talking about would be disambiguated as staff turnover
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@jaloopa said in Boycott Amazon!!:
The turnover you're talking about would be disambiguated as staff turnover
Or simply, again, turnover if you happened to be talking about staff, rather than taxes as we were to begin with...
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@jaloopa Yeah, must be a UK thing. I've never heard people talk about "staff turnover"; when someone says "this business has a massive turnover" in the US, it doesn't mean they're doing well financially; it means it's a place you don't want to work at.
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Here we go:
United Kingdon vs. United States Definition
Depending on where you are, these terms could mean the same thing. In the United States, businesses use the term "revenue" with regard to how much income they generate. In the United Kingdom, the term "turnover" is used for this purpose. Regardless of whether you are talking about turnover or revenue, you are talking about the amount of money a company brings in, without paying attention to expenses or any liabilities the company may have.
So yeah - it's a tomato/potato thing.
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@jaloopa said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@masonwheeler Maybe it's a UK specific term, but it's perfectly familiar to me and I'm not even a businessman. The turnover you're talking about would be disambiguated as staff turnover
Yeah, I'm not familiar with it, though my superior context clues skillz figured it out. To me, turnover without any qualification sounds like employee turnover. Inventory turnover is a familiar phrase, too. I'd expect to say, "sales turnover" when used in this manner.
Source: Have taken university level accounting and finance courses in America.
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YEAH FUCK YOU SOUTH AMERICA!
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@timebandit said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@lorne-kates said in Boycott Amazon!!:
YEAH FUCK YOU SOUTH AMERICA!
Yes !!!
You have my complete and undivided* attention
* Weeeeeeeellllllll...... as undivided as it can be given what the internet is for
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@pjh said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Here we go:
United Kingdon vs. United States Definition
Depending on where you are, these terms could mean the same thing. In the United States, businesses use the term "revenue" with regard to how much income they generate. In the United Kingdom, the term "turnover" is used for this purpose. Regardless of whether you are talking about turnover or revenue, you are talking about the amount of money a company brings in, without paying attention to expenses or any liabilities the company may have.
So yeah - it's a tomato/potato thing.
In Polish turnover is revenue - taxes.
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If you don't want to boycott amazon over taxes you can boycott then for funding Brietfart, so they'll pull their ads.
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@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@lorne-kates said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Brietfart
What's that?
Do you actually not know what Breitbart is? If so, I envy you.
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@pie_flavor
He knows them by their alternate domain name fairandbalancednewsforthe21stcentury.com
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@izzion I love how that just rolls off the tongue.
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@pie_flavor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Do you actually not know what Breitbart is?
I don't understand.
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@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@pie_flavor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Do you actually not know what Breitbart is?
I don't understand.
He misspelled Briefart, that's all. ;)
How can you not know what a Briefart is?! It's when you eat a lot of Brie and then you fart a lot and it smells really bad and then you suddenly find yourself in the White House advising the president, but you can't stop briefarting and you're really embarrassed but it turns out the president is actually a yuuuge Briefart himself and so you bond and it's great and then he fires you and you get sad and fart by yourself and you're really lonely and you fart yourself to death and it's a small fart for you but a huge fart for the humanity.
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@kt_ said in Boycott Amazon!!:
and it's a small fart for you but a huge fart for the humanity.
This is one small toot for man, one giant shart for mankind.
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@kt_ said in Boycott Amazon!!:
It's when you eat a lot of Brie and then you fart a lot
Sounds European. You guys are weirdly decadent.
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@boomzilla it's because we don't have to worry about bankrupting ourselves when we have health issues, so we can afford to indulge a bit.
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@arantor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
it's because we don't have to worry about bankrupting ourselves when we have health issues
Yeah, I guess dead people leave their worries behind.
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@boomzilla nah, we just have this weird-ass universal healthcare system that covers such things.
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@arantor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
nah, we just have this weird-ass universal healthcare system that covers such things.
I'll never understand you guys. Why would you pay for dead peoples' worries?
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@boomzilla no, thanks.
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@arantor Oh, OK. It just seemed like it there for a bit.
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@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@kt_ said in Boycott Amazon!!:
It's when you eat a lot of Brie and then you fart a lot
Sounds European. You guys are weirdly decadent.
So, Europe == Louisville, KY?
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@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@pie_flavor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Do you actually not know what Brettbart is?
I don't understand.
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@ben_lubar said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@pie_flavor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Do you actually not know what Brettbart is?
I don't understand.
Brettbart is no more correct than Breitfart.
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@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@kt_ said in Boycott Amazon!!:
It's when you eat a lot of Brie and then you fart a lot
Sounds European. You guys are weirdly decadent.
Not really,, this is a
MassocheicheiMakkakokoMassachusetts thing:
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@kt_ is that band's name pronounced Yell-viss?
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@ben_lubar said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@kt_ is that band's name pronounced Yell-viss?
This one I can't grasp. Would it be funny if it was?
PS. They're a comedy group, not a band. ;)
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@kt_ said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@ben_lubar said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@kt_ is that band's name pronounced Yell-viss?
This one I can't grasp. Would it be funny if it was?
PS. They're a comedy group, not a band. ;)
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@ben_lubar said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@kt_ is that band's name pronounced Yell-viss?
It's 'eel-viss'.
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@pie_flavor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@boomzilla said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@lorne-kates said in Boycott Amazon!!:
Brietfart
What's that?
Do you actually not know what Breitbart is? If so, I envy you.
I don't watch that show, no.
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@ben_lubar Who's that discount Jontron?
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@arantor said in Boycott Amazon!!:
@boomzilla nah, we just have this weird-ass universal healthcare system that covers such things.
Depends where in Europe you are. In France, they(1) have a universal health insurance system rather than a healthcare system like Britain's NHS. It covers, normally, 70% of the cost of the care, with third-party "tiers-payant" providers (i.e. private insurance, usually provided by employers) taking up the slack.
(1) Unless the French bureaucracy pulls a Pythonesque rabbit(2) out of a hat somewhere, in 18 months or so, maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more, I'll be able to say "we" in this context, since I will be officially declared to be French. Just needs them to get on with rummaging through the inch-thick stack of paper I sent them. Until then, the French are foreigners. Well, even after then, they will be foreigners, but I will be simultaneously foreign and not foreign, since I will remain an Englishman.
(2) That is, a bureaucratic version of the Rabbit of Caerbannog.