Dear web developers,
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If your website suddenly does this:
I will click "Block".
Don't ask for permissions until I do something that need it. The same goes for requesting access to my camera/microphone, or for wanting to send notifications.
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@AlexMedia oh but they need it for their targeted advertising, right?
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@AlexMedia said in Dear web developers,:
If your website suddenly does this:
I will click "Block".
Don't ask for permissions until I do something that need it. The same goes for requesting access to my camera/microphone, or for wanting to send notifications.
What are you trying to hide? Are you a terrorist or something?
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@AlexMedia said in Dear web developers,:
Don't ask for permissions until I do something that need it.
What makes you think it doesn't need it now? It probably wants to show you the nearest stations to you or something similar.
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@AlexMedia said in Dear web developers,:
If your website suddenly does this:
I will click "Block".
Don't ask for permissions until I do something that need it. The same goes for requesting access to my camera/microphone, or for wanting to send notifications.
It would be polite if the UI gave a reason.
Maybe the browser API should specifically say "no reason was given" and go on to say, "you're just expected to hand over information, because you are the product".
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@Shoreline I would think it'd be obvious that a site called Northern Railway would want to know your location in order to display info about your nearest station served by Northern Railway. And indeed, it uses your location to auto-fill the departure station.
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It has to make sure you're not one of those southern pansies.
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@AlexMedia A repeated theme in the teardowns at User OnBoard is permissions priming. There are some great examples, but also some awful ones: http://www.useronboard.com/onboarding-teardowns/
Waze is much like this example: http://www.useronboard.com/how-waze-onboards-new-users/?slide=5
as is United Airlines; the overall onboarding was just atrocious to begin with: http://www.useronboard.com/how-united-onboards-new-users/?slide=5
Here's an example of the priming I mean: https://www.useronboard.com/how-peach-onboards-new-users/?slide=26
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@RaceProUK even so, it would be nice if the location API offered a way to indicate a reason.
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@RaceProUK said in Dear web developers,:
@Shoreline I would think it'd be obvious that a site called Northern Railway would want to know your location in order to display info about your nearest station served by Northern Railway. And indeed, it uses your location to auto-fill the departure station.
The feature itself makes sense, but the implementation is not how I'd like to see it. I would prefer a "locate me" button located next to the input field, like so:
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@AlexMedia that is not obvious UI though, if you know that's what it does, great, but I would only know because you'd told me.
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@coldandtired said in Dear web developers,:
It has to make sure you're not one of those southern pansies.
Just remember to bring your pin.
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@thegoryone just for you, PHP is Shite
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@KattMan said in Dear web developers,:
@thegoryone just for you, PHP is Shite
Bears defecate in woods! News at 11.
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@AlexMedia So if you go to, say, Google Maps, should it just show you a generic map of nowhere in particular and only show your current location when you click a button?
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@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
Here's an example of the priming I mean: https://www.useronboard.com/how-peach-onboards-new-users/?slide=26
maybe i'm spending too much time around @Perverted_Vixen but.......
every time i see i have a massive attack of the and the
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@accalia said in Dear web developers,:
maybe i'm spending too much time around @Perverted_Vixen
That's possible?
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When you go to Google Maps in
porn modeincognito mode, Maps defaults to showing the country of the domain you've browsed to. So google.de/maps shows Germany, google.fr/maps shows France, and so on. That's helpful without being spooky.If you want more detail, you can click the in the bottom right and Maps will starts the geolocation process (using your browser's API, which asks permission). It doesn't ask for permissions without requiring some sort of user action.
I liked the approach that Microsoft took with Windows Phone: if an app wants to send you push notifications, it can't just throw up a "allow push notifications?" prompt upon first launch. Instead, there should be a control which the user clicks before the permission prompt shows. I would like web browsers to take the same approach.
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Is it so hard for that site to have a button for you to click that triggers the location stuff, rather than just automagically jamming it down your throat the second the page loads? But knowing how CEOs work, I'm sure they'd then complain that it requires SO MANY EXTRA CLICKS NOW FOR THE MAGIX TO HAPPENS.
I understand why the ad-revenue sites want to autolocate, but I don't get why sites like this where the user really might want to have the location automatically can't simply have the user initiate the action via a button or something.
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@AlexMedia said in Dear web developers,:
Maps defaults to showing the country of the domain you've browsed to.
E_NO_REPRO. It defaults to, I assume, IP based location for me without asking for permission. Do websites need permission to use IP based locationing? Discuss.
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@AlexMedia E_NO_REPRO on mobile. Google Maps asks for permission on page load.
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@Vault_Dweller said in Dear web developers,:
Do websites need permission to use IP based locationing?
In an ideal world yes, but given how the Internet functions on a technical level, there's no way to stop them.
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@accalia said in Dear web developers,:
@RaceProUK said in Dear web developers,:
there's no way to stop them.
orly?
I only said you can't stop them; I never made any claims about accuracy :P
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@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
@Vault_Dweller said in Dear web developers,:
mobile
Does mobile have incognito?
Mobile Edge does; don't see why Chrome and Firefox won't also
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@RaceProUK mobile chrome does too. Pretty sure Safari does, although that's vague memories from the iphone 3g an ex used to have
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@Vault_Dweller said in Dear web developers,:
@AlexMedia E_NO_REPRO on mobile. Google Maps asks for permission on page load.
I checked, on mobile (Android Chrome) Google Maps defaults to using the TLD: google.de/maps showed me Germany, google.nl/maps showed me the Netherlands, and so on. However, the website also immediately asked for location access.
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@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
Eh... I'm not sure I agree with the portion of United onboarding where the guy selected award travel option. Unless you're dealing with someone that has never interacted with the airline industry ever (which, I guess, is who you're visualizing with these >.>) you know not to check the Award Flight option.
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@Arantor said in Dear web developers,:
even so, it would be nice if the location API offered a way to indicate a reason.
Reason: We need to know where you are!
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@JazzyJosh said in Dear web developers,:
where the guy selected award travel option
I would have assumed it included award travel, rather than only showing award travel.
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@dcon said in Dear web developers,:
@Arantor said in Dear web developers,:
even so, it would be nice if the location API offered a way to indicate a reason.
Reason: We need to know where you are!
Yeaaaaaaah, nope.
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@dcon said in Dear web developers,:
@Arantor said in Dear web developers,:
even so, it would be nice if the location API offered a way to indicate a reason.
Reason: We need to know where you are!
Answer: Hopefully far enough away from your silly management!
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@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
@AlexMedia A repeated theme in the teardowns at User OnBoard is permissions priming. There are some great examples, but also some awful ones: http://www.useronboard.com/onboarding-teardowns/
Waze is much like this example: http://www.useronboard.com/how-waze-onboards-new-users/?slide=5
as is United Airlines; the overall onboarding was just atrocious to begin with: http://www.useronboard.com/how-united-onboards-new-users/?slide=5
Here's an example of the priming I mean: https://www.useronboard.com/how-peach-onboards-new-users/?slide=26
Wait... WTF IS WAZE CANDY! How the hell can you leave me hanging like that! FUCK YOU USERONBOARD!!!
but seriously... I love Waze.
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@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
as is United Airlines; the overall onboarding was just atrocious to begin with: http://www.useronboard.com/how-united-onboards-new-users/?slide=5
Atrocious does not even begin to describe it! I thought there was an unnoted failure of the app and reselection of the flight between slides 106 and 107 and again between 134 and 135. It wasn't until slide 138 that I realized that he was selecting the outgoing and return flights!
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@Arantor said in Dear web developers,:
@KattMan said in Dear web developers,:
@thegoryone just for you, PHP is Shite
Bears defecate in woods! News at 11.
Riiiiight. Next you'll tell me chocolate doesn't grow in big mounds on cow pastures.
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@Vault_Dweller said in Dear web developers,:
@AlexMedia So if you go to, say, Google Maps, should it just show you a generic map of nowhere in particular and only show your current location when you click a button?
It'd be a nice option, in general. The ability to give one-time indirect permissions instead of permanent permission to look at stuff whenever it likes would be preferable in many cases.
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@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
Does mobile have incognito?
It's the main reason for browsing on mobile!
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@Dreikin said in Dear web developers,:
Riiiiight. Next you'll tell me chocolate doesn't grow in big mounds on cow pastures.
Those are pies.
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@dkf said in Dear web developers,:
@Dreikin said in Dear web developers,:
Riiiiight. Next you'll tell me chocolate doesn't grow in big mounds on cow pastures.
Those are pies.
Chocolate pies?
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@Yamikuronue What airlines do you fly where that is the case?
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@JazzyJosh I fly?
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@JazzyJosh said in Dear web developers,:
@Yamikuronue said in Dear web developers,:
Eh... I'm not sure I agree with the portion of United onboarding where the guy selected award travel option. Unless you're dealing with someone that has never interacted with the airline industry ever (which, I guess, is who you're visualizing with these >.>) you know not to check the Award Flight option.
Based on the name of the toggle switch, I would have guessed that it meant to filter only to the flights that I could get reward/award "miles" on, implying that some flights confer "miles" and some flights don't, perhaps distinguished by whether they would be flying you on one of their own planes or a subsidiary/associate airline's plane.
I would not have guessed that it changed what my payment option would be. That I would have expected to see at the payment selection page, after selecting my flight(s).
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IDK, I guess it is a to understanding then. I must have been Churning too long to notice this.
That being said, nearly all the domestic carriers (except for Hawiian, Allegiant and Virgin America) presents this choice before you search for a flight:
United's could definitely be better though. I like Delta's "Show Price In" toggle the most
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@Vault_Dweller said in Dear web developers,:
@AlexMedia said in Dear web developers,:
Don't ask for permissions until I do something that need it.
What makes you think it doesn't need it now? It probably wants to show you the nearest stations to you or something similar.
@RaceProUK said in Dear web developers,:
@Shoreline I would think it'd be obvious that a site called Northern Railway would want to know your location in order to display info about your nearest station served by Northern Railway. And indeed, it uses your location to auto-fill the departure station.
Did I click the gooey little or icon? No? Then I didn't want it to. Fuck off and don't assume I want to tell you where I'm located just because I loaded a page, unless perhaps that page was hidden behind a link that specifically said "Use my current location to give me the nearest stations"...
edit: what would be nice would be if the geolocation API had a "do I have permission already?" property, similar to
Notification.permission
.
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@Vault_Dweller said in Dear web developers,:
@AlexMedia So if you go to, say, Google Maps, should it just show you a generic map of nowhere in particular and only show your current location when you click a button?
It's always possible to get a rough geolocation using the user's IP address. ("Always possible" meaning that you can always get some sort of estimate of their location; "rough" meaning that sometimes it's going to be nowhere even remotely close to their actual location.)
As an added bonus, you get their IP with their very first request, so if you wanted to you could bake the location-specific customization directly into the page instead of having it update itself later.
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@JazzyJosh If it's a mutually exclusive option, a radio button makes sense. Not so much a slider which can be enabled at the same time as "Show Basic Economy fares".
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@WernerCD said in Dear web developers,:
Wait... WTF IS WAZE CANDY! How the hell can you leave me hanging like that! FUCK YOU USERONBOARD!!!
but seriously... I love Waze.Seriously, Waze sucks. Big time. The guidance is not worst only because Google Maps are absolutely atrocious. And almost every other navigation is able to at least move the pointer gradually to the end of the tunnel or next manoeuvre rather than to hell when it loses GPS (not to mention that modern phones should be able to do quite good dead-reckoning when vehicle-mounted). And it can't search POI by categroy and it does seem to have shortcut for finding next gas station and/or restaurant along road. And then there are stupid bugs like randomly switching to north heading if you ever used it.
Yet the incident and traffic reporting make it the most useful navigation out there, simply because it is the only one where these things actually work.
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@RaceProUK said in Dear web developers,:
@Shoreline I would think it'd be obvious that a site called Northern Railway would want to know your location in order to display info about your nearest station served by Northern Railway. And indeed, it uses your location to auto-fill the departure station.
Sure, auto-filling a destination/start as your current location is something a transport website might want to do, but you're making an assumption about how sophisticated I expect web development to be. For one thing, users still use IE in favour of downloading a web browser, so I've no idea what counts as "obvious".