Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective
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What the fuck is YouTube playing this ad for a Indian or Pakistani or Phillipino or something orange juice mix which looks like it was recorded on a $20 camcorder in 1986? What information could YouTube possibly tracked to lead me to think I'd be interested in this product, or even speak whatever language this ad is in?
Is YouTube just stealing ad dollars from these poor suckers by playing their videos entirely at random?
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@blakeyrat or maybe YouTube donated some ad-time.
TRWTF is you not disabling ads
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@dse I'm not going to pay PewDiePie (or whoever gets YouTube Red money now-- certainly none of the channels I watch!) to get rid of ads. I'd far rather just grin and bear it.
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@blakeyrat what about adblockers?
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@dse said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@blakeyrat what about adblockers?
HALT!
Related to this: I once received a 40-minute unskippable ad.
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@dse It's their website, I use it on their terms.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Is YouTube just stealing ad dollars from these poor suckers by playing their videos entirely at random?
I think the advertiser configured it incorrectly. I never see any ad that is not in my local language.
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@blakeyrat Counterpoint: "It's my computer. YouTube uses it on my terms."
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@masonwheeler Counterpoint: go fuck yourself.
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
40-minute unskippable ad.
that is what is known as hell
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@blakeyrat YouTube shows me ads for apps that I already have installed. I think this just goes to show that all marketers are full of hot air, and that this tracking nonsense is completely useless
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@blakeyrat Further counterpoint: If I didn't have an adblocker I'd totally be screwing myself over, what with all the stealth malware hidden in Internet advertising these days.
Sorry, ad-supported websites. You let your site be used as a conduit to attack my computer, and I will take appropriate protective measures. This is why we can't have nice things.
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@bb36e I'm guessing you're the guy who saw the article saying "YouTube can now determine which apps you have installed" and went PRIVACY PRIVACY PRIVACY OMGOMG PRIVACY!, right?
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@masonwheeler said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Further counterpoint: If I didn't have an adblocker I'd totally be screwing myself over, what with all the stealth malware hidden in Internet advertising these days.
It's true, I've never used an ad-blocker and my computer is just 500,000 viruses all competing with each other for CPU time. Glad there aren't any insane paranoiacs in this thread.
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@blakeyrat no?
But Google does run YouTube, and Google sure as hell knows what apps I have because I have an Android. Either Google is totally incompetent (not an impossibility) or the targeted advertising suites that marketers have spent the past few years trying to sell as mandatory for advertising in today's day and age are, in fact, not very useful
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@blakeyrat Sample size of 1, and 1 who's been incredibly lucky at that. (Or just avoids a lot of ad-supported websites.) Malware hidden inside advertising is a real thing, even on highly reputable sites, and it's far too common.
For example:
In a world where this is a reality, that's not paranoia. It's simple prudence.
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@bb36e The targeting is not effective because crazy privacy advocates ensure it's not effective.
Look.
I didn't want to spend like 50 posts discussing Blakeyrat's First Law, which I see is still in-effect. I'm out.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
I didn't want to spend like 50 posts discussing Blakeyrat's First Law
Oh sod off. I don't have a personal vendetta against you, and assuming that about anyone who says anything that doesn't agree with what you say only lowers the quality of Discourseâ„¢ on this forum.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@bb36e The targeting is not effective because crazy privacy advocates ensure it's not effective.
Look.
I didn't want my echo chamber to be challenged. I'm out.
FTFY
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@masonwheeler Counterpoint: go fuck yourself.
No one is going to give you money on a monthly basis with that attitude.
Or, if that is what they are looking for, they will give the money to @Lorne-Kates.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@bb36e The targeting is not effective because crazy privacy advocates ensure it's not effective.
Look.
I didn't want to spend like 50 posts discussing Blakeyrat's First Law, which I see is still in-effect. I'm out.
Rage quit? So quickly? I R Disappoint.
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@bb36e said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@blakeyrat YouTube shows me ads for apps that I already have installed. I think this just goes to show that all marketers are full of hot air, and that this tracking nonsense is completely useless
90% of the ads I see on the internet are in one of two categories:
- Inedo
- Guild Wars 2
Most of the other 10% are completely unrelated to my interests. Something like baby clothing or perfume or bras. Because I can totally use those.
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@dse said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
40-minute unskippable ad.
that is what is known as hell
More like "Oh fuck you <ctrl-f4>"
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@masonwheeler said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Further counterpoint: If I didn't have an adblocker I'd totally be screwing myself over, what with all the stealth malware hidden in Internet advertising these days.
It's true, I've never used an ad-blocker and my computer is just 500,000 viruses all competing with each other for CPU time. Glad there aren't any insane paranoiacs in this thread.
Yeah, really. Oh noes someone got a virus from some sketchtastic ad network back in 2006 - BAN ADVERTISING FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Really, the malware ads problem would go RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY if the moral crusading stopped and ad-supported porn could run off of ad networks that aren't run out of the back of a Russian brothel.
Nobody's getting digital herpes from any of the mainstream ad providers (bar once in a blue moon attacks that survive on the network for all of 16 seconds). They're getting it from these:
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@dse said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
40-minute unskippable ad.
that is what is known as hell
More like "Oh fuck you <ctrl-f4>"
Why not just
<ctrl+r>
and hope you get a less bad advertisement?
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@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@dse said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
40-minute unskippable ad.
that is what is known as hell
More like "Oh fuck you <ctrl-f4>"
Why not just
<ctrl+r>
and hope you get a less bad advertisement?Well if you're doing that, f5 is better.
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@dse said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
40-minute unskippable ad.
that is what is known as hell
More like "Oh fuck you <ctrl-f4>"
Why not just
<ctrl+r>
and hope you get a less bad advertisement?Well if you're doing that, f5 is better.
Steam's browser has a refresh button, a refresh option on the right click menu, ctrl+r, f5, ctrl+f5, and the refresh button on certain keyboards. Exactly one of those works when a stream broadcast encounters an error. Good luck remembering which one.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
my computer is just 500,000 viruses all competing with each other for CPU time.
What? No gpu time? Dissappoint for no progress on AI virus evolution.
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Nobody's getting digital herpes from any of the mainstream ad providers (bar once in a blue moon attacks that survive on the network for all of 16 seconds). They're getting it from these:
Yeah, except no. They're still all over mainstream ad networks running on reputable sites, because apparently neither the sites nor the ad networks CBA to properly vet the advertisements they display. (See my link, above, about Forbes serving up malvertising.)
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@masonwheeler said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
because apparently neither the sites nor the ad networks CBA to properly vet the advertisements they display
How the hell do you think ads work? They're not running arbitrary machine code on your computer. It's just a webpage. With a single image and a link.
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
- If "women you know" are on a "cougars" site, isn't that making some hasty assumptions about "your" age or "your" preferences?
- How come none of the women on these sites look as good as the women on the stock photography sites?
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@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
How the hell do you think ads work? They're not running arbitrary machine code on your computer. It's just a webpage. With a single image and a link.
Except when it's not. When it has JavaScript in it that attempts to run exploits or initiate drive-by downloads. Or when it autoplays video (bad enough in and of itself; even worse when the video contains carefully crafted frames trying to exploit flaws in video players and codecs.) Or howevermany other sleazy tricks they can come up with to mess with my computer.
Back before it got bad enough that I installed an ad blocker, I'd see my antivirus catch the same attacks, on the same sites, week after week after week, even after I repeatedly reported the problem to the folks running the sites in question.
It's a real problem and it exists well beyond the porn sites that @Weng claims to be the entirety of the problem.
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Really, the malware ads problem would go RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY if the moral crusading stopped and ad-supported porn could run off of ad networks that aren't run out of the back of a Russian brothel.
Nobody's getting digital herpes from any of the mainstream ad providers (bar once in a blue moon attacks that survive on the network for all of 16 seconds). They're getting it from these:
No. Just plain fucking no.
Those so-called "mainstream ad providers" get ads from a bunch of different ad networks, who get ads from a bunch of other ad networks. There are so many layers, and nobody gives a fuck, making it trivial to slip in malware.
A bogus banner ad was serving malware based on the Angler Exploit kit to visitors of video site DailyMotion (potential audience 128 million), which, regardless of what you may think of their content, is not a Russian porn site. The ad was coming from an ad network called Atomx, who blamed a "rogue" advertiser on the WWPromoter network. (Layer on top of layer on top of layer).
Angler-based malware advertising also struck MSN.com, Yahoo (an estimated 6.9 billion visits per month), Daily Mail (monthly ad impressions 64.4 million) and Reader's Digest (ad impressions 1.7M). That attack sat unattended for a week before being fixed.
This shit is happening every day. It's no longer the one-in-a-million isolated incident that it used to be. But I don't even worry about it any more. I just block anything and everything that even remotely appears to be an ad server, and anyone who doesn't like it can kindly fuck off.
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@masonwheeler said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
How the hell do you think ads work? They're not running arbitrary machine code on your computer. It's just a webpage. With a single image and a link.
Except when it's not. When it has JavaScript in it that attempts to run exploits or initiate drive-by downloads. Or when it autoplays video (bad enough in and of itself; even worse when the video contains carefully crafted frames trying to exploit flaws in video players and codecs.) Or howevermany other sleazy tricks they can come up with to mess with my computer.
Back before it got bad enough that I installed an ad blocker, I'd see my antivirus catch the same attacks, on the same sites, week after week after week, even after I repeatedly reported the problem to the folks running the sites in question.
It's a real problem and it exists well beyond the porn sites that @Weng claims to be the entirety of the problem.
Ok, now show me where the button is on Google AdWords for "upload javascript that attempts to exploit flaws in browsers".
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@masonwheeler said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Nobody's getting digital herpes from any of the mainstream ad providers (bar once in a blue moon attacks that survive on the network for all of 16 seconds). They're getting it from these:
Yeah, except no. They're still all over mainstream ad networks running on reputable sites, because apparently neither the sites nor the ad networks CBA to properly vet the advertisements they display. (See my link, above, about Forbes serving up malvertising.)
This is because Forbes has a shitty analytics provider who also runs their ads:
Incidentally, the ad I pulled that info out of was an ad for an ETF I already hold. I... Didn't know you could run ads for individual securities, but okay. And now I'm considering getting the fuck out of it because jesus christ why would you advertise with these scumbags?
Elgoog is the 9 trillion pound gorilla in advertising because they DO do the legwork cleaning up trash, DO restrict what advertisers can do (which drives advertisers up the fucking wall, but is great for consumers) and STILL make life easy for content providers and pay decent rates.
The problem isn't ads. The problem is shitty ads run by shitty companies.
Yes, by all means. Adblock sites that use trash. But we need ads. Ads that aren't fucked.
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
The problem isn't ads. The problem is shitty ads run by shitty companies.
I'd just like to remind everyone that this discussion is about YouTube ads. YouTube ads are just YouTube videos that someone has paid to make you watch.
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@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
The problem isn't ads. The problem is shitty ads run by shitty companies.
I'd just like to remind everyone that this discussion is about YouTube ads. YouTube ads are just YouTube videos that someone has paid to make you watch.
Which is even more innocuous.
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@Weng said in Normally I ***** at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
The problem isn't ads. The problem is shitty ads run by shitty companies.
I'd just like to remind everyone that this discussion is about YouTube ads. YouTube ads are just YouTube videos that someone has paid to make you watch.
Which is even more
innocuousinsidious.FTFY ;)
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@masonwheeler said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Further counterpoint: If I didn't have an adblocker I'd totally be screwing myself over, what with all the stealth malware hidden in Internet advertising these days.
It's true, I've never used an ad-blocker and my computer is just 500,000 viruses all competing with each other for CPU time. Glad there aren't any insane paranoiacs in this thread.
Yeah, really. Oh noes someone got a virus from some sketchtastic ad network back in 2006 - BAN ADVERTISING FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Really, the malware ads problem would go RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY if the moral crusading stopped and ad-supported porn could run off of ad networks that aren't run out of the back of a Russian brothel.
Nobody's getting digital herpes from any of the mainstream ad providers (bar once in a blue moon attacks that survive on the network for all of 16 seconds). They're getting it from these:
I'd be willing to get herpes from these!
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@Groaner said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
- How come none of the women on these sites look as good as the women on the stock photography sites?
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@Weng said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
hey're getting it from these:
Toby fair nobody minds getting anything from her
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@bb36e said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@blakeyrat YouTube shows me ads for apps that I already have installed. I think this just goes to show that all marketers are full of hot air, and that this tracking nonsense is completely useless
I will consider personalized ads as vaguely useful the day Amazon will stop trying to sell me the exact same item I just bought, from different sellers. If I just bought a FooGizmo, what's the likelihood that I want to buy a second one right before even receiving the first one?!?!
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@dse I'm not going to pay PewDiePie (or whoever gets YouTube Red money now-- certainly none of the channels I watch!) to get rid of ads. I'd far rather just grin and bear it.
YouTube Red pays content creators based only on your watch time. If you watch more of a creator, they get paid more. If you watch less, they get paid less. As for the portion that YouTube keeps, maybe they do spend it on YouTube Red Originals that you aren't interested in, but who cares? (I'm not asking you or anyone to subscribe to Red, just clarifying facts)
Another help article:
New revenue from YouTube Red membership fees will be distributed to video creators based on how much members watch your content. As with our advertising business, the majority of the revenue will go to creators.
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@dse said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@blakeyrat what about adblockers?
I wondered how long it would be before this happened. 18 minutes. Not bad! And only about 6 minutes before the inevitable!
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@remi said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
I will consider personalized ads as vaguely useful the day Amazon will stop trying to sell me the exact same item I just bought, from different sellers. If I just bought a FooGizmo, what's the likelihood that I want to buy a second one right before even receiving the first one?!?!
It's possible that they're trying to influence your memory of the purchase. Next time maybe you'll look at those providers. Or maybe you won't like the one you got and will go to a different product / vendor. IOW, I can definitely see that being a reasonable strategy. After all, you've already proved that you're willing to pay money for a FooGizmo.
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@boomzilla I think it has more to do with the "similar things" strategy. It works fairly well for books (if you like one genre, it makes sense to suggest choices of the same genre) and this is where Amazon started, so I guess this is why we get the same strategy for other things.
Then there is the fact that some items are sold by many different sellers, so since these recommendations are based on "other people that looked at X also looked at...", obviously when I buy a FooGizmo I compare a few sellers of FooGizmo to check prices (including shipping) and stuff. Again, Amazon probably didn't account for that when they built their recommendation strategy, since they were initially the sole vendors (and wouldn't usually offer the same book more than once, since stuff like hardback/softcover are options for one book, not different items).
So I'm not sure there is really a defined strategy behind this, it's probably that it works "well enough" in a lot of cases, there is very little cost to them to getting it wrong (at worst I have a chuckle seeing some weird association, but it's not like I'm going to cancel a purchase for that), and this is what they already had.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Is YouTube just stealing ad dollars from these poor suckers by playing their videos entirely at random?
I think YouTube might have actually had some kind of temporary problem with ad targeting, because yesterday roughly around the time you made this post I got a few that seemed to be in Turkish and obviously not meant for me.
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@blakeyrat Google believes my office is in India, so we sometimes get their YouTube ads. The worst one I ever got was a 3 hour long one that was essentially the free first episode of a series of training videos on some weird piece of software I didn't recognize. This on a 3 minute video.
I assume they don't spend much time reviewing this stuff at all over there, but I'd be kind of interested to know why the quality of what they allow in different regions varies so much. I know YouTube is very picky when it comes to content on their site.
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@blakeyrat said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
@dse It's their website, I use it on their terms.
Their TOS doesn't explicitly or implicitly forbid adblockers. https://www.youtube.com/static?gl=CA&template=terms
The only thing close is saying you aren't allowed to circumvent security or copy restriction measures.
So counter-counter point: fuck you.
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@ben_lubar said in Normally I bitch at YouTube from a creator perspective, here's a consumer perspective:
Most of the other 10% are completely unrelated to my interests. Something like baby clothing or perfume or bras. Because I can totally use those.
Targeting sounds about right...
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080714181431AA1fgc6