Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred
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@RaceProUK Yeah, but they're probably considered features. Identical would include the weird CSS rules held over from before the standards moved in different directions.
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@Polygeekery said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
means something much different for a Leviathan like Microsoft
To be fair, my preferred way of working for a company that big would be to release an MVP internally that's a real minimum, and dogfood it for about a year, adding back only what enough of the internal employees request. Then you'd have something you can release to the general public without as much bloat as their usual product line.
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@Yamikuronue
Discourse employee spotted!
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The MVP for a web browser would be this? :P
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@Yamikuronue said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@RaceProUK You know, we talk a big game about being agile and releasing the minimum viable product and then only adding what people really need, to prevent bloat.... and then when Microsoft does it, we ridicule them for it.
Maybe because it's a really dumb idea and "bloat" is a non-issue in this modern age of abundant computing resources?
This has been the case for decades now; cf. Zawinski's Law. (Ironically, this is often misunderstood as a criticism of "bloat" by focusing only on the first half and completely ignoring the second half, which declares that "bloated" programs invariably out-compete minimalist ones.)
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@Atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
The MVP for a web browser would be this? :P
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So, in something explicitly called the Creators Update, Microsoft will be killing off a useful tool for creating stuff. I guess they want us all to be creating in 3D now really badly. Herpderp.
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@atazhaia I'm the same age as Paint
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@raceprouk said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I'm the same age as Paint
But do you have better "features" ?
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@timebandit said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@raceprouk said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I'm the same age as Paint
But do you have better "features" ?
I am capable of bringing pleasure to many
Then again, so is Paint.
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@tsaukpaetra said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I have a Hololens, why should I mess with an emulator?
How much custom HoloLens content are you creating????
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@raceprouk So am I!
Also, other features being shelved includes Outlook Express. I thought that program died many years ago! I haven't seen that as part of a Windows install for like a decade.
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@atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
Also, other features being shelved includes Outlook Express. I thought that program died many years ago! I haven't seen that as part of a Windows install for like a decade.
Because the Mail app does what it did, but is nicer to work with,
The same can't be said of Paint3D currently, but it's not bad, and could get there. As long as you don't put it in 3D mode, it's just a 2D paint app.
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@magus said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
Because the Mail app does what it did, but is nicer to work with,
Although it does have an annoying habit of not deleting emails when you delete them from Deleted Items.
Usually works the second time though.
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@thecpuwizard said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@tsaukpaetra said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I have a Hololens, why should I mess with an emulator?
How much custom HoloLens content are you creating????
I got so far as making a white cube that falls to the floor when you touch it before I started working at my current job and non-compete kicked in.
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@magus said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
Because the Mail app does what it did, but is nicer to work with,
You must be using the paid version. For me, it's more painful to use the Mail App than Outlook Express, has less functionality, and feels overall like a kids email client overall.
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@tsaukpaetra There is no paid version
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@atazhaia Gimp
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@raceprouk said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@tsaukpaetra There is no paid version
Microsoft is losing out, for sure!
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Jim'll Paint It has already said he'll just use Paint in a VM rather than lose real MS Paint.
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My primary beef with this update is that it replaced Control Panel with Settings in the power user menu, meaning I gotta resort to the Run dialog and type in the whole thing. But the new game optimizations are actually pretty good, and IIRC it was this update that the Linux Subsystem was released.
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@arantor said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
Jim'll Paint It has already said he'll just use Paint in a VM rather than lose real MS Paint.
There's something to be said about pixel art.
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@pie_flavor said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
resort to the Run dialog and type in the whole thing.
Oh dear! Two-chord key press versus ï…º+R, "control", Enter!
How often are you doing this that simply creating a shortcut on the desktop with a keybinding isn't solving this? (I have mine mapped to Ctrl-Shift-Alt-C for the main control panel view, Ctrl-Shift-Alt-N for Network Connections)
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@masonwheeler said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
Maybe because it's a really dumb idea and "bloat" is a non-issue in this modern age of abundant computing resources?
- My browser (Firefox) freezes when I load Facebook on my i5 GTX 980 16GB desktop
- my i7 macbook pro with 16 gigs of ram gives me an 'out of memory' error about once a week so I find myself suspending browser tabs (chrome) pretty zealously
- facebook messenger lags (Firefox/chrome) if more than three people send messages at the same time
- google drive's ui takes 30+ seconds to respond to input if I'm trying to upload more than a hundred images at once (chrome, i5 with 16 gigs of ram)
i could go on
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@bb36e I've not experienced those kinds of problems. But I agree that website bloat is a real problem in this day and age. As surfing on mobile gets more popular, websites should get lighter to lessen the amount taken from the limited mobile data pools and make them render faster, but that seems to be something most designers and developers don't think of.
I don't have the browser freezing on me when loading heavy pages (except for in rare cases), but it can take time to do it. If you have problems with freezing there may be some other problem at hand. But I dunno. My set of devices is a bit different, though.
It's also interesting that you get out of memory errors on your MBP when my old MBA with 4GB of RAM is perfectly fine with a minor tab explosion in Chrome + a Firefox with Youtube.
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@bb36e said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
my i7 macbook pro with 16 gigs of ram gives me an 'out of memory' error about once a week so I find myself suspending browser tabs (chrome) pretty zealously
Close and reload in a new tab occasionally. That's usually enough to keep Chrome using a sane amount of memory.
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@atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
It's also interesting that you get out of memory errors on your MBP when my old MBA with 4GB of RAM is perfectly fine with a minor tab explosion in Chrome + a Firefox with Youtube.
I usually keep around 50 tabs open at a time, but it's my work laptop so there's a bunch of stuff open as well
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@bb36e said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I usually keep around 50 tabs open at a time
Glad to see I'm not alone doing this
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@bb36e the only time I've had browser hangs recently is when accessing a site like http://buildmaster/ over the VPN.
I think there's an option in chrome://flags to discard tabs under memory pressure.
If you're uploading a lot of stuff to Google Drive frequently, I'd suggest using the desktop app so closing your browser doesn't interrupt the upload.
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@ben_lubar said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
closing your browser
Why would I do that ?
Am I not supposed to be here 24/7 ?
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@timebandit said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@ben_lubar said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
closing your browser
Why would I do that ?
Am I not supposed to be here 24/7 ?
I mean, at some point you have to restart your browser for updates.
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@ben_lubar said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I'd suggest using the desktop app so closing your browser doesn't interrupt the upload
Not available on Linux, unfortunately. Google said that their site is the best way to upload files so there's no native client. I think Google does not understand this word 'best'
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@ben_lubar said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I mean, at some point you have to restart your browser for updates.
LIES!
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@ben_lubar said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I mean, at some point you have to restart your browser for updates.
Can't right now, browsing aliens.
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@boomzilla I didn't know we could buy aliens here... Well. At least not legally.
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@erufael said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@boomzilla I didn't know we could buy aliens here... Well. At least not legally.
Well you could shoot aliens legally. Why not purchase them?
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@erufael said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@boomzilla I didn't know we could buy aliens here... Well. At least not legally.
Why buy them when you can just get them from church?
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@nedfodder Wow.
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Alright so the update came out today and as I usually do, I reformatted my machine and clean installed Windows 10. In the installation experience it lets you actually choose whether you want to use OneDrive or not, which is nice. Also, where there are usually bloatware apps in the start menu, there are instead placeholder icons that don't tell you the name of what will eventually be downloaded at some unspecified point in the future. I just unpinned them all.
Upon initial login, it had Edge open to some welcome page. I closed it without taking a screenshot.
When I first restarted after updates it had a popup that said invalid login credentials or something. Probably because I forgot to turn this off:
Apparently at some point Intel decided that a native application window was too straightforward - their driver update utility now just installs a tray icon app that has no window of its own and instead abuses a webpage on Intel's site like the ancient Windows XP update center:
Yes, that is a webpage downloading and running executables on my machine via a proxy application.Also, there's whatever this is:
I thought the stuff on the left was different sections of the settings like normal, but actually they correspond to the toggle buttons on the right with a huge gap between them. Also, I discovered this accidentally, but the only way to re-arrange the order of the tiles in the action center is to selectively turn them off and on in the correct order like a puzzle. Oh well, the only tile I ended up leaving on was Night Light.I'll report on anything else I notice. The Bluetooth icon is different, I guess.
EDIT: The Documents folder and the Pictures folder default to being inside OneDrive now. Neat, but I usually keep them in Google Drive.
EDIT: Wait, there's aC:/Users/LB/Documents
with a location tab, AND aC:/Users/LB/OneDrive/Documents
with a location tab? Apparently I now have TWO official Documents folders...
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@lb_ said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
Also, where there are usually bloatware apps in the start menu, there are instead placeholder icons that don't tell you the name of what will eventually be downloaded at some unspecified point in the future. I just unpinned them all
Oh, it just didn't finish setting up the Store App yet.
No, what I care about is how to cancel or prevent them from attempting to install in the first place. At present you have to wait until they're fully there, then individually uninstall them. Takes friggin forever. Oh, and if you happen to not have enough space to actually install them, they'll happily wait until you do.
Thanks, Microsoft.
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Aha, I found the setting that causes there to be two different Documents and Pictures folders:
Note that it has NO relation to these settings:
Unfortunately, changing the setting doesn't deduplicate the folders... wish me luck!
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So that means I'll have the joy of installing the Full Craters' Pupdate when I come home! I wonder how many settings it will manage to break or revert on my PC, as I've disabled as much of the Windows adware features as I can. Like auto-installing suggested store apps which of course has a nice big button to toggle... oh, wait, no, it's a setting hidden deep in the registry in a non-obvious location, because of course it is.
Sadly, not something I can force-install on my work computer as it runs Enterprise, which in my case means it'll install (big) updates whenever it feels like it rather than when I want it to. Right now would be a good time to do it actually, but I guess no such luck.
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I'm curious how many of my custom folder paths it will overwrite. In fact, I'm curious if my
~\Documents
folder being a junction toD:\Documents
will break anything (I have a few of those set up).Honestly, there's a grand total of two things I'm looking for. More 'game mode' improvements, and more content in the Settings menu. Everything else - I'm sure it's useful to someone.
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I spoke too soon. My work computer did get the update. Also, it did take way too fucking long to install. Seriously, why does it take two hours to install the bloody thing? Also, disk cleanup said it was going to free 35GB of useless shit left after the update, only cleaned up 24GB. And it almost looked like I would have some extra space on my harddrive after this...
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@atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
35GB of useless shit left after the update
Haha, then good luck trying to do that update on my installation, where the windows OS partition has ~2GB free.
And I am not going to give it more - Linux can work on a 2x smaller OS partition, Windows will have to cope with it.
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@adynathos Most of it was a backup of the old Windows install, which I found pointless. If Windows fucks up I can just get it restored from image anyway.
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@atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@adynathos Most of it was a backup of the old Windows install, which I found pointless. If Windows fucks up I can just get it restored from image anyway.
But not to that exact previous release. You usually get an image several months old.
It's the difference between a rollback and a restore.
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@rhywden I know we just got a new system image here. (Right before the big fall update, because ofc we would!)
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@atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
@rhywden I know we just got a new system image here. (Right before the big fall update, because ofc we would!)
The rollback is also faster in my experience.
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@atazhaia said in Teh Offishal Wondows 10 Full Craters' Pupdate Thred:
I spoke too soon. My work computer did get the update. Also, it did take way too fucking long to install. Seriously, why does it take two hours to install the bloody thing? Also, disk cleanup said it was going to free 35GB of useless shit left after the update, only cleaned up 24GB. And it almost looked like I would have some extra space on my harddrive after this...
Yeah, disk cleanup is actually quite bad at its job. It claimed it would free up 1 GB on my absolutely full server. It did maybe 40 mb.