The Real SkyNet
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@heterodox For a gizmo like the Echo where the internet access is a key feature (no part of it could work without it, and no one would buy it without expecting it to rely on a network connection), sure, that would be an issue.
But for a TV where the "internet" part is a secondary feature of it, honestly, I wouldn't be that surprised to see some manufacturers telling you "oh, yeah, that doesn't work anymore, you need to buy a new one... and see, we're nice guys, we'll give you 10% off the new one".
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@heterodox I shall recap my proposal for rules regarding internet-connected devices:
- No remote bricking
- Advertised features must work for at least 3 years after purchase
- Security vulnerabilities must be patched within 24 hours
- Product info must list, in simple words and reasonably big letters, what private information you collect
- Actually enforce that (have a team of people analyzing devices to see if they send things they're not supposed to)
34 little rules that would improve things a lot. I call the idea... "basic consumer protection".
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
@heterodox I shall recap my proposal for rules regarding internet-connected devices:
- No remote bricking
- Advertised features must work for at least 3 years after purchase
- Security vulnerabilities must be patched within 24 hours
- Product info must list, in simple words and reasonably big letters, what private information you collect
- Actually enforce that (have a team of people analyzing devices to see if they send things they're not supposed to)
3 little rules that would improve things a lot. I call the idea... "basic consumer protection".
so....... which rule is the big rule then?
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@accalia said in The Real SkyNet:
which rule is the big rule then?
The fourth one: it's the longest.
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@accalia Damn it I can't make one post without messing it up!
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
- No remote bricking
Eh, ostensibly reasonable, though I have no problem with manufacturers bricking devices that are used to circumvent copy protection/platform integrity (i.e., if you mod your X-Box, you'll get banned from X-Box Live, but I honestly would have little additional sympathy if you got bricked).
@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
- Advertised features must work for at least 3 years after purchase
Hahahahaha.
@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
- Security vulnerabilities must be patched within 24 hours
HAHAHAHAHA.
@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
- Product info must list, in simple words and reasonably big letters, what private information you collect
- Actually enforce that (have a team of people analyzing devices to see if they send things they're not supposed to)
Yeah, good luck with all those.
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
@accalia Damn it I can't make one post without messing it up!
I swear my spellar affliction is not a STI.
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
Security vulnerabilities must be patched within 24 hours
Within 24 hours of what?
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@boomzilla Publication, I would assume.
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@heterodox But, like, after some waiting period for responsible disclosure? What's the waiting period there? Do you think a fixed period is appropriate?
A 24 turnaround from the time something is discovered is just a recipe for stupid. Saying 24 hours after an appropriate period of time passes is good, but not terribly meaningful here.
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
- Advertised features must work for at least 3 years after purchase
Makes me wonder what, legally, the expected lifetime of a smart TV is. This has impact on your legal warranty.
googles
https://radar.avrotros.nl/uitzendingen/gemist/02-02-2015/levensduur-van-apparaten/
Scroll down for a table that should be relatively understandable even if you don't speak dutch. For a 1000 euro TV, 6 years.
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Also, another proposal (a technical one):
- Keep the device as dumb as possible. Expose a simple network interface (using a generic open protocol)
- Run the logic in a central home server, that would handle all communication to and from the (very dangerous) outside world.
So if you're outside and really need to see the real-time HD video feed of the inside of your fridge, you connect to your Google Hub, Apple Home, Microsoft Home, or GNU OpenPersonalServerThingieForHipsters and login there, but NOT directly to your fridge.
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@boomzilla Let's say 24 hours of the bug being publicly known (i.e. published in a vulnerability database). Or 48 hours if that's still too bad.
Look, just getting companies to not sell things with dozens of already known vulnerabilities would be a huge win.
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@anonymous234 I agree that it would be great to get vulnerabilities addressed. My worry is that putting an unrealistic timeline on stuff like that is going to result in fixes that you don't really want or that just make things worse. Because that's how rushed software fixes work.
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
@boomzilla Let's say 24 hours of the bug being publicly known (i.e. published in a vulnerability database). Or 48 hours if that's still too bad.
I don't think it'd be too much of a surprise to anyone if I were to say we can't (and as @boomzilla points out, don't want to) get that kind of turnaround time on national security systems; I don't know what in God's name makes you think you can get manufacturers motivated enough to give you that kind of turnaround time on e.g. a $10 smart plug sold two and a half years ago without threatening to put every company officer in jail.
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@heterodox does that mean companies would stop producing shit that never needed to be smart in the first place? Because I'd vote for that
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@RaceProUK said in The Real SkyNet:
@fbmac said in The Real SkyNet:
I don't see the point in a TV that show ads.
Isn't that all TVs?
Not mine! I use strictly streamed services that don't include ads. :P
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@homoBalkanus said in The Real SkyNet:
@heterodox does that mean companies would stop producing shit that never needed to be smart in the first place? Because I'd vote for that
Apparently that matters less that you might think:
tl;dr; Keys for different Ford cars (built at least a decade apart) open each others doors.
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
Advertised features must work for at least 3 years after purchase
A TV has to last at least 20 years if it's not shit
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@boomzilla said in The Real SkyNet:
tl;dr; Keys for different Ford cars (built at least a decade apart) open each others doors.
I remember when my mom entered a different Ford (because the key opened the doors) only to spend a lot of time trying to unlock the ignition (which luckily didn't work), until the car's owner arrived and started shouting at her for being inside their car.
The best part was this car's color was completely different from my parent's car. Oh, Mom.
This was some 20 years ago, btw.
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@Zecc I don't remember if it was a Ford, but once my mom took the wrong car and just noticed after getting home.
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@anonymous234 said in The Real SkyNet:
Keep the device as dumb as possible.
Fat chance. A manufacturer who does that won’t be able to advertise its new and supposedly improved technical features.
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@boomzilla said in The Real SkyNet:
@Gurth said in The Real SkyNet:
I got a new TV recently, and deliberately turned its network off entirely because I don’t see why some foreign company needs to know anything at all about my viewing habits.
I can't get excited about this. I mean...I get the initial reaction of a privacy invasion, but then I'm like...well, maybe it will convince people to make more of the stuff that I like. But then I'm like...shit, my kids watch cartoons on Netflix all the time so maybe this isn't a good idea. Then I'm like...I need a drink and that's that.
Because turning off the network would be work?
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@pydsigner said in The Real SkyNet:
Because turning off the network would be work?
Yes, but more importantly, work that would have only negative consequences.
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@accalia said in The Real SkyNet:
cheep incendiary rounds for my trebuchet
Headcanon: @accalia launches the Angry Birds movie on Samsung TVs and then uses the TVs as the bomb bird IRL.
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@boomzilla said in The Real SkyNet:
@homoBalkanus said in The Real SkyNet:
@heterodox does that mean companies would stop producing shit that never needed to be smart in the first place? Because I'd vote for that
Apparently that matters less that you might think:
tl;dr; Keys for different Ford cars (built at least a decade apart) open each others doors.
So the keyspace ran out and we got collisions now?
Not surprised at all, actually...
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TIL My not-so-smart TV uses ~460 watts when the screen is white, and ~350 watts when the screen is dark (but not off, because apparently having a 100% black screen means "turn off the light", avoided by having a very dark-grey pixel lit up).
Any recommendations for replacement?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Real SkyNet:
Any recommendations for replacement?
What is your budget? What features do you expect? Size? Other restrictions / preferences?
Oh, and you won't get a TV that displays black nicely for less than $5000, since only OLED can do that. LCDs will always look grey in a dark room.
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@asdf said in The Real SkyNet:
Size?
At least 80", but it should fit between my two bookcases (1.5m apart).
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@asdf said in The Real SkyNet:
Oh, and you won't get a TV that displays black nicely for less than $5000, since only OLED can do that.
I don't use my TV for displaying black.
More seriously, when there is a movie playing, your eyes adapt, and you can't really notice it.
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@fbmac said in The Real SkyNet:
More seriously, when there is a movie playing, your eyes adapt, and you can't really notice it.
Depends on the quality of the TV, but yeah. I only mentioned it because @Tsaukpaetra complained.
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@asdf said in The Real SkyNet:
@fbmac said in The Real SkyNet:
More seriously, when there is a movie playing, your eyes adapt, and you can't really notice it.
Depends on the quality of the TV, but yeah. I only mentioned it because @Tsaukpaetra complained.
I complained? No, merely clarified. When it's "black" all the way it draws a little less than 200 watts.
We were going to gather data on how long a new comparable TV would be to pay for itself. Accordingly, this thing uses about ten kilowatts a day according to the kill-a-watt device. I'll need to steal a copy of the electric bill next...
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@PleegWat said in The Real SkyNet:
At least 80", but it should fit between my two bookcases (1.5m apart).