Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump
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@Yamikuronue said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
but that might be myopic
Not so much myopic as selective. Almost anything can be proved if you use few enough datapoints and choose where the other end is carefully. ;)
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@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
I disagree a bit about what @ScholRLEA says about the Depression ending before FDR took office. It should have ended, but Hoover made it worse and FDR continued the tradition and helped continue the awfulness with terrible protectionist and other economic interventions.
I thought protectionism was all healthy and patriotic. How do you want to preserve the manufacturing jobs and compete in a free economy that companies are free to move some plants to China?
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@dkf said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@Yamikuronue said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
but that might be myopic
Not so much myopic as selective. Almost anything can be proved if you use few enough datapoints and choose where the other end is carefully. ;)
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics
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@HardwareGeek said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
My opinions have definitely shifted to the right since then
Have you perhaps aged since then?
@HardwareGeek said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
After all, I just said my opinions have, to a large extent, been shifting in the opposite direction from society's.
Oh yes as if you get older every day!
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@Yamikuronue said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@dkf said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Socially, you're likely correct; things have noticeably shifted, and not just in the US
But isn't that always true? Today's conservatism is a call back to yesterday's progressive values, isn't it?
I'm sure there are intersections between the two but that's an unhelpful oversimplification, kind of like:
ORA-00907: missing right parenthesis
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@dse said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
How do you want to preserve the manufacturing jobs and compete in a free economy that companies are free to move some plants to China?
You don't compete over unskilled labor. Now:
...I suspect whatever they do here will look very different from what they do in Taiwan. The empty string is null and so are most shitty factory jobs in the US.
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@dse said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Have you perhaps aged since then?
Since the 1980s? No, not at all.
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@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
the blame Bush thing
To be fair, it was all his fault.
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@RaceProUK said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@ScholRLEA said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Shrub
Bush (Snr or Jr?)
Shrub is the lesser Bush.
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@flabdablet said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
the blame Bush thing
To be fair, it was all his fault.
Because steel beams can't melt, and there were explosive sounds during Katrina.
Yeah, no one was delusion when they blamed Bush, ever.
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@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
You don't compete over unskilled labor.
But you compete over the benefits you pay to your unskilled labor.
@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
The empty string is null and so are most shitty factory jobs in the US.
As shitty as the coal mines, or even shittier:
Now:
I see Foxconn. Chinese overlords now want American slaves?
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@Yamikuronue said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
But isn't that always true? Today's conservatism is a call back to yesterday's progressive values, isn't it?
If you're into some equal-opportunity bashing, here's a relevant Chesterton quote:
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution, the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types -- the advanced person who rushes us into ruin, and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight, not to say moonshine. Each new blunder of the progressive or prig becomes instantly a legend of immemorial antiquity for the snob. This is called the balance, or mutual check, in our Constitution.
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@Yamikuronue said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
But socially it's generally true that societies become more liberal over time.
It seems to flip-flop once in a while, as the society grows tired of their fathers' values and does a cultural revolution in the name of "it was better back then". Renaissance threw away the medieval ideals in the name of going back to antique ones, then baroque brought them back, only to have them thrown away again by enlightenment, etc.
Even right now, it's pretty evident that the society is shifting towards the conservative side again.
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@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Yeah, no one was delusion when they blamed Bush, ever.
Bush II's war in Iraq was a colossal blunder, and it was something he and his administration deliberately wanted for various reasons, and not something that can be laid at anyone else's feet. Pre-invasion Iraq was definitely a bit of a basket case, but it would have continued to stew in its own juices without major intervention. (Bush I's brief war with Iraq over Kuwait was not the same sort of thing at all.)
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@dkf said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Bush II's war in Iraq was a colossal blunder, and it was something he and his administration deliberately wanted for various reasons, and not something that can be laid at anyone else's feet.
Ok, I'll spell it out for everyone.
Right or left, one constant is that we continue to go into unnecessary wars in the Middle East that only seem to be complete failures and spread terrorism.
Another constant, is how everyone pretends they aren't biased when they blame the current President for everything under the sun.
And yet, due to bias and the echo chambers called your circle of friends, which social media makes worse by making it appear that your circle of friends are the majority or even the only people on Earth, everyone thinks they're under attack by the media and that their favored political side is somehow doing things differently.
Hell, even the basics of Obamacare was a Republican's brainchild.
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@xaade It's worse than that, really; had McCain won and had a GOP majority, the bill - which was already in committee when Obama was elected - would probably have been passed in a form virtually identical to the one that was passed, and the Democrats would have been the ones fighting tooth and nail to repeal it. The partisanship is less about goals or values and more about Us vs. Them, and the dividing line is almost entirely arbitrary - as shown by the way it shifts over time.
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It IS arbitrary. It doesn't matter what they actually do. Just how successful they are in making the narrative fit.
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@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
everyone thinks they're under attack by the media and that their favored political side is somehow doing things differently
Show me the Democrat who deliberately chose to prolong a vicious pointless war for political advantage and you might have a point.
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@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Hell, even the basics of Obamacare was a Republican's brainchild.
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@flabdablet said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
everyone thinks they're under attack by the media and that their favored political side is somehow doing things differently
Show me the Democrat who deliberately chose to prolong a vicious pointless war for political advantage and you might have a point.
Why do you love Communists so much?
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@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Why do you love Communists so much?
Free Porn!
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A Communist is a man who wants all the money in the world shared out equally among all the people in the world… and when he has spent his, he wants it all shared out again. - Charlie Chester
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@boomzilla From what I can find, it's true. I wouldn't label it a conservative concept. Republicans didn't vote for it, but it was a Republican bill.
Of course, that's like saying McCain wrote it, and no one voted for it.
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@flabdablet said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Show me the Democrat who deliberately chose to prolong a vicious pointless war for political advantage and you might have a point.
Syria.
Hillary/Obama prolonging it to say she's fighting ISIS, while in reality she's just getting US wrapped up in a cold war with Russia.
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@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
From what I can find, it's true. I wouldn't label it a conservative concept. Republicans didn't vote for it, but it was a Republican bill.
No, not even close. There were ideas about mandates that came up in a Heritage paper that a couple of guys wrote and the idea had been kicked around a bit in different forms. Obviously, Romney did something similar in Massachusetts.
I guess if you think that this translates into "Obamacare was a Republican bill" then I will choose to terrorize you with signs.
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@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
I guess if you think that this translates into "Obamacare was a Republican bill" then I will choose to terrorize you with signs.
I said "basics".
I suppose I should add "some of the basics" in there.
@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Obviously, Romney did something similar in Massachusetts.
Yeah, that makes it a Republican's brainchild.
It may not be your favorite Republican, or have the support of the Republican party... but there you go.
It's a rather pointless thing to bring up in the context of trying to prove that Republicans behave similarly to Democrats, because "similarly" doesn't mean passing the same exact bill. That's where people's minds tend to go when a liberal says Obamacare is a Republican bill. But that's because they're leaning on someone not paying attention to the details of what they're saying and accepting the hyperbole without thinking about it.
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@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
I said "basics".
I suppose I should add "some of the basics" in there.
It's a giant freaking law. And you're still wrong.
@xaade said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@boomzilla said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
Obviously, Romney did something similar in Massachusetts.
Yeah, that makes it a Republican's brainchild.
I believe the mandate was not part of his proposal, but something the democratic state legislature added to the bill.
It's a rather pointless thing to bring up in the context of trying to prove that Republicans behave similarly to Democrats, because "similarly" doesn't mean passing the same exact bill. That's where people's minds tend to go when a liberal says Obamacare is a Republican bill. But that's because they're leaning on someone not paying attention to the details of what they're saying and accepting the hyperbole without thinking about it.
You should have posted this stuff to the "Remembers history wrong" thread or whatever it's called.
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@Yamikuronue said in Oracle exec quits over co-CEO Safra Catz's promise to assist Trump:
@dkf Sure, economically. But socially it's generally true that societies become more liberal over time.
Yes, it's generally understood that the Second Law of Thermodynamics is universal.