Traffic sins
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@masonwheeler said in Traffic sins:
(If your car is old enough that you can't adjust both side-view mirrors from the driver's seat, then... I'm sorry.)
2011 taco here, mirrors are manual!
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@anotherusername said in Traffic sins:
Consider: the person behind you doesn't have a polite way of asking you to move over. There literally isn't one. The only thing they can do is come up behind and hope you get the message
Or flash their lights, honk their horn and generally be a dickweed. That's the sort of person I don't tend to let past until I've annoyed them a little bit more.
And don't get me started on the ones with multi coloured lights on the roof, and a horn that's like NEE NAW NEE NAW. They'll even follow you into the slow lane. The only way to get rid of them is to stop, wait until they've left their car to come and intimidate you more, and drive off in a hurry
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@The_Quiet_One said in Traffic sins:
inch out
Oh ... I hate people who while you are parking still insist on walking right behind or in front of the car. Caution works both ways ... don't walk up behind a (slowly) moving vehicle.
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@masonwheeler said in Traffic sins:
- Seriously, don't tailgate. Not even when stopped. When at a red light, stay far enough back that you can see the road behind the tires of the car in front of you. This is a good rule of thumb to ensure that just in case someone rear-ends you, you won't slide far enough to hit the guy in front of you and make the accident even worse. (This is not a theoretical concern; I've been hit like this by "cue ball" cars twice before. Both times, it wouldn't have happened if the idiot behind me had just stayed back a bit further!)
You could try that round here, but you'll just make a lot of people mad at you. Tighter packing is the norm, and is absolutely essential at some junctions to prevent a few people from blocking things up thoroughly. (The junction I'm particularly thinking of is tremendously space-constrained and carries a lot of traffic at peak times.)
I'd like to note that when you come to a red light and you've not got traffic in front of you, stop at the line, not a few feet ahead or behind it. It's really not hard to learn where the front of the car actually is…
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@Lorne-Kates said in Traffic sins:
@Lorne-Kates said in Traffic sins:
Thou shalt not ever think exceeding the speed limit is justified, or condoned by any law.
I see we're back to "downvote when facts disagree with my feelz".
That's not the part people - myself included - have an issue with. It's the part where you imply people should police speeding by blocking the supposed speeders. Doing so puts yourself, the "offender" and everyone else who happens to be using that road at risk. Leave policing speed to the police.
And speaking of the police, there is a reason they generally use dedicated equipment to measure speed: speedometers aren't 100% accurate and I suspect many modern cars actually indicate a higher speed than you are traveling at. You might therefore very well turn out to be the asshole intentionally blocking the 100 km/h lane doing 95.
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@Deadfast said in Traffic sins:
speedometers aren't 100% accurate and I suspect many modern cars actually indicate a higher speed than you are traveling at
I think they all do to some extent. There's probably liability if you get caught by a speed camera doing 75 but your speedo said you were going 69.
A lot of people seem to think GPS speed displays are a lot more accurate. I would be interested to see how much they over or under read
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@masonwheeler said in Traffic sins:
Park facing out, not in.
I usually do and do it because I consider it easier. In a turn, the steered front wheels make a wider turn, so backing into the spot requires less manoeuvring space. Also the car I drive has rather short nose, but it slopes so that I don't directly see the clearance from the driver position, while I see the clearance on the sides of the back quite well in the rear-view mirrors—and parking assistant takes care of the clearance behind the rear bumper.
@anotherusername said in Traffic sins:
It's trickier to back that precisely
Clearly most people consider it so, but for some reason I consider it easier. Because the rear wheels basically go straight and you can steer the front as needed to align, while going forward you need to oversteer just the right amount and can't correct it once the nose is between the other cars.
@asdf said in Traffic sins:
Because I don't like to duck under a tree while loading my trunk.
There are few places where I park facing in for that reason too. But in most places I back in due to the less space needed.
@anotherusername said in Traffic sins:
Drive in the lane as close to the roadside as practical given your current speed relative to other traffic. (This is actually THE LAW in a lot of places; unfortunately it's just usually not enforced.)
My experience is that when there are two lanes, most people follow it, but when there are three, suddenly many people start ignoring the outside lane and drive in the middle one.
And yes, we have the law that outside of town, you must always use the rightmost (outermost) lane available except when overtaking or using turn lane.
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Three reasons for turning on your headlights:
- To be seen by others
- To see what's ahead of you
- See #1.
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Don't undertake
My car doesn't have the best acceleration, so overtaking a lorry can take a little while. A few weeks ago I was performing the aforementioned manoeuvre, and noticed a car behind tailgating me. As soon as I judged myself far enough in front of the lorry to safely come back into its lane, I indicated and started changing lanes. Unfortunately, this was the same time the arsehole behind decided to cut into that same space and come past me.
They noticed what I was doing and backed off, then zoomed past me while making a gesture to suggest I have certain masturbatory habits, then promptly got stuck in traffic directly in front of me, gaining a net benefit to their trip of a couple of seconds.
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@Captain said in Traffic sins:
people are going to take your parking spots when you drive by them (principle of least surprise, etc)
- Use your signals
- Respect others' turn signals
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Don't block the overtaking lane just because you decide people shouldn't be overtaking
This one happens pretty regularly to me. On my way into work, there's an uphill bit that widens from 1 to 2 lanes, to help with getting past slow lorries. This bit often gets backed up as there's a busy roundabout a few hundred metres after it goes back to one lane. The overtaking lane is always empty when it gets backed up so there's usually a couple of cars, including me, who know that it's perfectly legal and can reduce congestion slightly, to use all of the road. Heading up the overtaking lane past all the stopped traffic you need to be constantly on guard for people who think you shouldn't be allowed to do this, and that it's acceptable to move out enough that they're blocking the overtaking lane while not moving out of the backed up lane enough to lose their spot. More than once, this has happened close enough to me that I've had to do an emergency stop, even though I do it quite slowly precisely because I know people pull this sort of stunt.
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@Jaloopa I think that could be stated more succinctly and more generally as:
Stay in your lane. Those lines on the road delineating lane boundaries are there for a reason. If you aren't actively in the middle of the process of changing lanes, with your turn signal on, your tires should not cross them. It makes other drivers uncertain as to what you're about to do; they don't know if you're changing lanes without signaling, or just not all that good at keeping control of your vehicle.
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@Jaloopa Also the cockwombles who sit in the outer overtaking lanes on motorways when the inner lanes are empty, just because they're doing 70mph and no-one should be going faster than that.
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Don't give up your right of way when there's no point
Do not stop or slow down to let people out when there's a large space behind you. It's just confusing, and at best by the time I've made certain that you're stopping for me and not just slowing down out of uncertainty about something, we'd both already be on our way if you'd just driven past so I could pull out behind you.
If there's a constant stream of traffic I'm extremely grateful to you for letting me out and will pay it forward when I get the chance. If there was a socking great stretch of open road behind you, I'm fuming at you all the way down the road. Somehow it's more galling than people being inconsiderate, when they're inconveniencing you by trying to be kind.
This also applies to stopping for pedestrians to cross.
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@CarrieVS also, a single flash of high beams really doesn't help. Is that person flashing me or did they just go over a bump?
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@The_Quiet_One said in Traffic sins:
Perhaps if we lived in an alternate universe where the vast majority of people DO back into parking spaces habitually, we'd all be aware of the pattern and be better prepared for what people are going to do in a parking lot. We don't live in such a world, though.
First of all, it doesn't need to be the vast majority. It's just needs a big enough minority.
And second, it's a big world; so go easy on those generalizations.Around here the majority of drivers does indeed park front-first, but it's not the "vast" majority. Backing into a parking space is, in fact, how we are taught during driving lessons (though that applies mostly to parallel parking, TBH) and seeing people park that way is not at all unusual.
I usually back into spots. I find it's easier to turn your car in tight spaces when your steering wheels are on "the back".
I say you should park in whatever way you feel most comfortable, just as long as you park safely and respectfully.
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@Jaloopa said in Traffic sins:
The overtaking lane is always empty when it gets backed up so there's usually a couple of cars, including me, who know that it's perfectly legal and can reduce congestion slightly
I see this kind of things regularly and I wonder, does it really reduce congestion?
Sure, if the queue stretches back to a point where it impedes another road, making the queue shorter will help the other road. But your scenario seems to be essentially one lane becoming two becoming one again, with no other roads or interactions. I don't see how having a two lane bit in the middle will make traffic any easier? In the end, traffic is still limited by the 1-lane bit at the end.
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@remi It reduces the distance of the tailback by the distance that the additional lane covers. In this case, that can mean fewer side roads being blocked but I've never seen it back as far as the previous roundabout.
You're right in that once it's saturated it doesn't make it any quicker for cars that are in the jam, but it also doesn't cause any problems, and can make it easier for cars joining from minor roads to get in, or to turn the other way and not be delayed, so there is a potential benefit for no downside.
As it is, being one of the few that uses the additional lane means I get past 20-30 cars (arse pull figure), so it's a gain for me and a minor loss for everyone I overtake
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@Lorne-Kates said in Traffic sins:
There is literally nowhere in the world where "faster traffic" is defined as "faster than the speed limit".
Virginia Yield
46.2-804(1), 46.2-842.1
Yield left lane to faster traffic on signal. State police say this applies even when faster traffic is speeding.
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@Jaloopa
This may be legal, but you're being an asshole, and making the congestion in the through lane worse by doing it, since now you're merging back in and people are going to have to stop to accommodate that, rather than being able to keep flowing toward the roundabout.We have a similar stretch of road here, the road (a major artery from downtown to the north section of town & the major shopping center) is three lanes for about 4 blocks including three stoplights, but at the end of this stretch, the right lane is "must turn" and the left 2 lanes are through. At evening rush hour, the through lanes will back up for the entire 4 blocks, while the right lane is significantly emptier. Inevitably, people will use the asshole lane and instead of just following the must turn and using the alternate route (which is still faster than waiting through the lights in the backed up lanes), they'll force back into the through lanes right before the must turn lane turns off. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents at the turn off point.
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@izzion Presumably, @Jaloopa is talking about using both lanes where they both go in the same direction.
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@izzion Yes, when I'm the only one doing it I'm a minor arsehole. The people putting me and themselves at risk because they think I'm doing something wrong are massive arseholes and almost deserve to be hit
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@RaceProUK
Yeah, I know he is. The road I'm describing is a three lane one-way road. It doesn't make you less of an asshole to cut in, when you knew all along you were going to be taking the "slow lane", and you deliberately jumped out of that lane just to jump the line.It's the same thing as waiting until the very last moment to merge for a lane restricted construction zone. It's "legal", but it's not always the smartest thing and it's certainly discourteous -- doubly so when you zip out of line just to make use of all that extra unused roadway. I cheer when semis (lorries) line up side by side to create a rolling roadblock for particularly congested construction (or emergency) narrow-downs.
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@Zecc said in Traffic sins:
@The_Quiet_One said in Traffic sins:
Around here the majority of drivers does indeed park front-first, but it's not the "vast" majority. Backing into a parking space is, in fact, how we are taught during driving lessons (though that applies mostly to parallel parking, TBH) and seeing people park that way is not at all unusual.
Parallel parking is not what we are talking about here. I back in when parallel parking too and there is a general understanding that when you signal to park on a road side more often than not you are going to be expected to make room for behind the car.
So, knowing we are not taking about a very different parking maneuver, how does that change your generation? When you are in a parking lot, how often do you see cars backing into parking spots, especially in busy lots?
Also, some parking lots are angled, and not perpendicular to the lane. Usually these parking lots are one-way, with the flow of traffic aligned more naturally with a front first position. What do you do there?
I usually back into spots. I find it's easier to turn your car in tight spaces when your steering wheels are on "the back".
I say you should park in whatever way you feel most comfortable, just as long as you park safely and respectfully.
Agreed. I'm not opposed to whichever way you wish to park, as long as you do so competently. @masonwheeler disagrees, though, and lists front first parkers as sinners. That's what I disagree with.
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@izzion When traffic is flowing freely, then yes, merge early. When it's queueing however, you use all the road available to minimise congestion, and merge one-and-one at the merge point.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Traffic sins:
Usually these parking lots are one-way, with the flow of traffic aligned more naturally with a front first position. What do you do there?
Begrudgingly park forwards, as that's the only option.
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@RaceProUK It's the correct use of the road, but it's still seen as a dick move when everyone's queuing slowly in the crawler lane and a couple of people drive straight up it to pull in front. It's no excuse for someone to be a bigger dick and actively block those people, but still.
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@loopback0 True, but if those people in the slow lane stopped being holier-than-thou and used the available road capacity properly, everyone would get through it quicker.
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@RaceProUK
No, it really wouldn't help throughput at all.The choke point (a single lane, for this example) can only put one car through every X seconds, regardless of how they get there.
People zipper-merge (one and one) poorly, so there is some amount of loss, Y seconds per merge, as people figure out whose turn it is, or have to jam on the breaks when that douchenozzle piggy backs the car in front of him to jump the line.
Zipper merging also introduces the possibility of two douchenozzles being side by side at the merge point and getting into an accident that will block the road completely for T seconds, with probability p.
So using all available road space means that it will take you n*(X + Y) + pT seconds (where n is the number of cars in front of you in both lanes). Or everyone could be a civilized human being and line up as soon as they see the construction warnings (often 1000 feet / 300 meters or more before the merge point, aka holding space for more than 50 cars) and get through in n*X seconds, since traffic will flow through the choke point smoothly as all of the merging awkwardness was resolved further back before traffic was slowed and constrained by the choke point.
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@izzion Then people should learn to merge properly instead of being cuntbuckets.
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@izzion said in Traffic sins:
The choke point (a single lane, for this example) can only put one car through every X seconds, regardless of how they get there.
Actually, the choke point is the roundabout further up the road. It's trivial to catch back up to the queue, so any delay in merging is negated within a few seconds when you're stopped behind another car again.
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Let's not have the zipper merge argument again. We know it's the correct way of doing it, but the amount of idiots on the road merging wrong does unfortunately mean you're better off sometimes doing it wrong.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Traffic sins:
When you are in a parking lot, how often do you see cars backing into parking spots, especially in busy lots?
A lot. Specially in busy lots.
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@Bulb said in Traffic sins:
suddenly many people start ignoring the outside lane and drive in the middle one.
That's actually the "right" thing. The (US-centric) far right lane is for merging, the center is for travel and the far left is for passing.
Of course you all realize the underlying problem... All this would work if people just used common sense. But sadly, that seems highly uncommon.
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@dcon In the UK, the rule is that you should stay as far left as you safely can except when overtaking.
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@CarrieVS said in Traffic sins:
This also applies to stopping for pedestrians to cross.
You'd better do that in CA. It's the law.
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@dcon What is the law in CA, specifically? @CarrieVS said enough things in there that your response is a bit vague.
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@dcon said in Traffic sins:
@CarrieVS said in Traffic sins:
This also applies to stopping for pedestrians to cross.
You'd better do that in CA. It's the law.
UK again:
If the pedestrians are waiting at a puffin, pelican or toucan crossing, you shouldn't stop unless the lights go red. If they're waiting at a zebra crossing you should stop for them. If they're just waiting on the pavement looking like they want to cross, there's no obligation to stop, but you can if you want to. If there's a large gap behind you then see Carrie's argument against that
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@masonwheeler said in Traffic sins:
@dcon What is the law in CA, specifically? @CarrieVS said enough things in there that your response is a bit vague.
If a pedestrian steps into a cross walk (not a traffic light controlled one), traffic stops. The ped has right-of-way.
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@dcon said in Traffic sins:
You'd better do that in CA. It's the law.
Is California one of the states where pedestrians may only cross at designated crossings?
A crossing where pedestrians have right of way is a different situation to the general case where pedestrians can cross wherever they like when they judge it's safe, or at a crossing where pedestrians only have right of way on a signal. Here in Britain, also, you'd better stop if a pedestrian is standing at a zebra crossing, but that doesn't apply to what I was complaining about:
@CarrieVS said in Traffic sins:
Don't give up your right of way...
Obviously, if it's not your right of way that does not apply, regardless of what type of road user you're obliged to give way to.
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@Jaloopa said in Traffic sins:
If the pedestrians are waiting at a puffin, pelican or toucan crossing, you shouldn't stop unless the lights go red. If they're waiting at a zebra crossing you should stop for them.
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Puffin, pelican, toucan, zebra ???
What if they're at a human crosswalk?
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@RaceProUK said in Traffic sins:
@izzion When traffic is flowing freely, then yes, merge early. When it's queueing however, you use all the road available to minimise congestion, and merge one-and-one at the merge point.
EDIT: LOL, the bottom text was obscured in GIS.
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@Jaloopa said in Traffic sins:
@dcon In the UK, the rule is that you should stay as far left as you safely can except when overtaking.
We have that too (well, right, not left :) ). What can I say - our lawmakers like confusion! (google...) I wonder if that changed in the last few years... I remember a graphic in the drivers book showing that, but the CA lane use section (https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/traffic_lanes) doesn't anymore... Tho
If you can choose among three lanes, pick the middle lane for the smoothest driving.implies that!
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Two can cross (bikes and pedestrians). Light controlled AIUI, the name was bacronymed to what Wiki says after Toucan crossing became well known An evolution of the pelican crossing. I'm sure you have these in America
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@CarrieVS Ah. Yeah, peds only have right-of-way at the crossings. In neighborhoods, there is an implied crossing at a corner, even if there's no markings. So looks like we're talking about basically the same thing.
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@Jaloopa said in Traffic sins:
I'm sure you have these in America
Yeah, we call them "crosswalks." All of them.
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@boomzilla
In my defense, Iskippedmissed the last merging argument. Or, at least, I don't remember participating in the last one :P
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@izzion You didn't miss much.
Remember how every other argument goes here? Yeah? It went like that.
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@dcon said in Traffic sins:
@CarrieVS Ah. Yeah, peds only have right-of-way at the crossings. In neighborhoods, there is an implied crossing at a corner, even if there's no markings. So looks like we're talking about basically the same thing.
There is no implied crossing at a corner in Britain and this is the first time I've heard of that being the case anywhere. If there is an explicit crossing then rules apply depending on the type and if not pedestrians may cross (as they may anywhere except on roads where pedestrians aren't allowed) if they think it's safe but have no special priority. Obviously, if a pedestrian is crossing , you may not run them over.
But even in California, if pedestrians have right of way at corners it still does not contradict my point that "Do not give up your right of way if there's no point... applies to stopping for pedestrians to cross". In what way are we talking about the same thing?
Toucan crossing - Wikipedia
