We can do better than that
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@anotherusername said in We can do better than that:
@Greybeard my dead uncle had that.
Was he dead when he had it?
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@ben_lubar said in We can do better than that:
@anotherusername said in We can do better than that:
@Greybeard my dead uncle had that.
Was he dead when he had it?
No, it's called "post-polio" because he contracted it "post-mortem"
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@ben_lubar ever since he died, yeah.
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
We don't need the source code, just the decompiler.
The problem isn't that, the problem is that the source code's all self-modifying and it's full of global variables.
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@dkf on the other hand, that observation pretty much is the end of the Intelligent Design movement. ;)
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
@masonwheeler We don't need the source code, just the decompiler.
Imagine a Brainfuck program 2 billion instructions long, that when run outputs several billion different, seemingly nonsensical Java programs that are then all executed in parallel, continuously exchanging messages between each other and with other random programs over the internet that you don't control (the environment), and after running and mutating for a few months manage to turn into a text processor.
And someone tells you "sometimes that button doesn't work, can you decompile the program and find the cause?" Well, it will probably take you a while.
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I would hope, that had we the decompiler or the source, we'd have a machine with the capacity to grep it.
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@Arantor said in We can do better than that:
@dkf on the other hand, that observation pretty much is the end of the Intelligent Design movement. ;)
Like AIs aren't? It seems to me that any sufficiently advanced intelligence, natural or artificial, must necessarily contain complex self-modifying code. That's what memory and learning are, after all. And it must, to have any sort of resiliency -- to repair itself, or to route around damage.
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
I would hope, that had we the decompiler or the source, we'd have a machine with the capacity to grep it.
We've got the decompiler, but there's not really any source. It's all in assembly language and the execution engine works grepping the code for something it likes, copying it, tweaking the code a bunch, and then running with that. And it's all massively parallel.
The βgrepping the code for something it likesβ is actually a transcriptase binding to the DNA in an unmethylated and physically exposed section, typically near to a location called a ribosome binding site. The DNA is then transcribed into RNA, which is then chopped and changed a bunch on its way to the ribosome, which converts what it receives (possibly) into proteins. In eukaryotes (anything from amoebas to trees and humans) the proteins are then quite possibly decorated with extra stuff like sugars; that's a part that isn't well understood. Finally, the working proteins do all sorts of chemistry or are structural stuff, and all the chemistry side of things interacts all at once (yes, with massive amounts of cross embuggerance). Also, there are vacuoles and ion pumps about, which mean that cells can do different chemistry (often at a different pH) in them, making everything even more complicated.
I work with people studying this and how to change it (in bacteria) to make useful stuff at commercially-interesting concentrations. It's really very very more complicated than I've made it sound.
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@groo said in We can do better than that:
exactly, they should try to find out if something works before doing research
That's Ken M quality. Well played, sir.
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@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
we shouldn't be wasting our time writing video games when we could be trying to cure cancer.
Why not both?
Filed under: Gamify all the things
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@flabdablet I sense the long-awaited sequel to Space Invaders: Cancer Invaders. Defend your base against the invading cancerous cells. Fire white blood cells to defeat the invaders.
Or something. I'm no doctor, I don't know any of the biology.
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
people with mental diseases have to face criticism that it's all in their head.
Best place for mental problems.
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
Some other company, that doesn't spend money on research, wouldn't have raised the price.
The big problem is that pharma wants to pay off research with current meds, instead of starting out the new med at a higher price.Mylan makes generics. It does fuck-all research.
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@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
I want a single method that will solve downtown traffic congestion, commuter airplane routes across India, improve the taste of food on a train, and also brush the hair of donkeys used to traverse the Grand Canyon. Because these are all THE SAME PROBLEM with the SAME SOLUTION, apparently.
To be fair, "throw money at it" works for all of those.
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@Yamikuronue said in We can do better than that:
EM sensitivity is a bullshit disease.
Quite so. In almost every case, the putative EM sufferer actually has Morgellon's.
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@masonwheeler said in We can do better than that:
"this person is experiencing chronic pain and we have no idea what's causing it, but we don't want people to think we have no clue, so we'll give it a very impressive medical-sounding name to make it appear we know what we're talking about."
When my younger brother was a tiny child, my mother took him to the doctor and said she was worried because there were just a whole lot of little things wrong with him. The doc ran a bunch of tests, then diagnosed "multiple minimal dysfunction".
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@dkf said in We can do better than that:
@xaade said in We can do better than that:
I would hope, that had we the decompiler or the source, we'd have a machine with the capacity to grep it.
We've got the decompiler, but there's not really any source. It's all in assembly language and the execution engine works grepping the code for something it likes, copying it, tweaking the code a bunch, and then running with that. And it's all massively parallel.
The βgrepping the code for something it likesβ is actually a transcriptase binding to the DNA in an unmethylated and physically exposed section, typically near to a location called a ribosome binding site. The DNA is then transcribed into RNA, which is then chopped and changed a bunch on its way to the ribosome, which converts what it receives (possibly) into proteins. In eukaryotes (anything from amoebas to trees and humans) the proteins are then quite possibly decorated with extra stuff like sugars; that's a part that isn't well understood. Finally, the working proteins do all sorts of chemistry or are structural stuff, and all the chemistry side of things interacts all at once (yes, with massive amounts of cross embuggerance). Also, there are vacuoles and ion pumps about, which mean that cells can do different chemistry (often at a different pH) in them, making everything even more complicated.
I work with people studying this and how to change it (in bacteria) to make useful stuff at commercially-interesting concentrations. It's really very very more complicated than I've made it sound.
Yeah, I don't see much in there that explains the reasons for stuff happening.
For example, the cell makes a new protein.... why?
Well, if it's just responding to there being too much of something else, makes sense.
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
the cell makes a new protein.... why?
Because God is a micromanager, duh.
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@flabdablet said in We can do better than that:
@xaade said in We can do better than that:
the cell makes a new protein.... why?
Because God is a micromanager, duh.
God plays Dwarf Fortress.
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@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
God plays Dwarf Fortress.
Let's just hope that He doesn't have Fun any time soon.
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@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
God plays Dwarf Fortress.
Let's just hope that He doesn't have Fun any time soon.
The great flood was clearly a ragequit.
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
For example, the cell makes a new protein.... why?
There's the low level reasons, and the high level reasons. The low level reasons relate to reaction rates and stuff like that. The high level reasons are more like βshit happens, but if it didn't we'd all be dead so quit griping about itβ.
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@flabdablet said in We can do better than that:
Mylan makes generics. It does fuck-all research.
Correct. The CEO of Mylan is the daughter of a prominent U.S. Senator. That is why Mylan thinks they can get away with charging so much.
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@flabdablet said in We can do better than that:
The doc ran a bunch of tests, then diagnosed "multiple minimal dysfunction".
I had an official diagnosis for a while of "patella-femoral pain" which literally just means "Your leg hurts; I'm going to diagnose you with leg pain."
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@Yamikuronue said in We can do better than that:
@flabdablet said in We can do better than that:
The doc ran a bunch of tests, then diagnosed "multiple minimal dysfunction".
I had an official diagnosis for a while of "patella-femoral pain" which literally just means "Your leg hurts; I'm going to diagnose you with leg pain."
Nothing going wrong with the nerve?
No collapsed disks?
Another thing to look for is if your muscles are cramping up around the nerve. That's much harder to find, but definitely results in the same thing.
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@anotherusername said in We can do better than that:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in We can do better than that:
True, but the assertion was "she's a pediatrician, therefore she would know about who are the best researchers to fund," and that's not justifiable.
Just considering her as a pediatrician, I'd assume that she held an M.D., which is a graduate-level program and (if I'm not grossly mistaken) typically requires participating in at least some research. And then, hospitals generally perform research, and often encourage their doctors to perform research.
No mention was made of the "teaches science" part
That was from the Wikipedia article I linked. She also previously graduated from Harvard with a BA in biology, and did the science teacher gig for a year before going to UCSF and getting her doctorate.
So a current practicing MD knows who are the best researchers to fund? Hmm. Perhaps. Maybe.
Or maybe not, at least in part, because of the difficulty of evaluating whether any single piece of
medicalscientific research will pay off (and what, indeed, "pay off" means for a piece of research(1)).(1) This point is terribly, terribly important. It would be fair, but not necessarily accurate, to suggest that Zuck's goal is to change the goal of "pay off" from being "producing income for shareholders" to being "produce better health care results for patients". (At the very least, that is the impression the announcement seems to be giving.) The 75000 Euro box of pills I mentioned above (a) wasn't actually the most expensive box of pills I collected during that time and (b) is a consequence of the monstrous cost of conducting medical research to the level needed for releasing a drug for public use (combined with the fraction of drugs that don't get released but are nevertheless researched at least to some point).
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@xaade said in We can do better than that:
Nothing going wrong with the nerve?
No collapsed disks?
Another thing to look for is if your muscles are cramping up around the nerve. That's much harder to find, but definitely results in the same thing.Nope. None of the above. No diagnostic tests found anything in the first two years of doctor visits. Eventually they found a small amount of arthritis that could in no way explain the level of pain I was experiencing. That's how Fibromyalgia works: what would be a small amount of discomfort in a healthy person is experienced as severe pain.
Of course, then people like you come along and pretend that without seeing me you know better than the doctors who examined me... ;)
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in We can do better than that:
So a current practicing MD knows who are the best researchers to fund? Hmm. Perhaps. Maybe.
Or maybe not, at least in part, because of the difficulty of evaluating whether any single piece of medical scientific research will pay off (and what, indeed, "pay off" means for a piece of research(1)).MDs use white coats because they're doing research most of their time.
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@flabdablet said in We can do better than that:
@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
brush the hair of donkeys used to traverse the Grand Canyon
To be fair, "throw money at it" works for all of those.
I've yet to see someone brush hairs by throwing bills (or coins? credit cards?) at it. Could that be the next ice-bucket-let-s-cure-world-problems-by-retweeting-a-hastag viral bullshit?
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@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
God plays Dwarf Fortress.
Let's just hope that He doesn't have Fun any time soon.
We'll see if Trump gets elected or not.
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@remi I challenge you to drop a bucket full of coins on your own head.
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@groo Drop on head, or dump over head?
It makes a big difference!
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@masonwheeler on head, from a 5m height
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@groo *wince*
If you're gonna do that, why not just make it an anvil, for improved comedy value?
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@masonwheeler that's the solution by throwing money at the problem, but I guess it would work too
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@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
We'll see if Trump gets elected or not.
Oh, the tears! That would be so much fun.
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@groo said in We can do better than that:
@remi I challenge you to drop a bucket full of coins on your own head.
OK, but what for? Ending world hunger? Eradicating malaria?
I might consider it for the end of all -code, but 1) this site would become useless and 2) I fear exterminating humankind would be easier (but not necessarily enough!).
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@remi getting hid of those guys that made ice bucket challenge videos
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@groo But then we'd need another challenge to get rid of all the buckets-of-coins ones... It's turtles all the way down!
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@remi If a bucket full of coins isn't heavy enough to crack their heads I dunno how we get rid of them
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@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
God plays Dwarf Fortress.
Let's just hope that He doesn't have Fun any time soon.
We'll see if Trump gets elected or not.
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@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
FiveThirtyEight: Trump would win if election were held today
ChartFACTS says "If the election were held today, candidate X would totes win *"
* if voters actually voted for a particular candidate, and not the electoral college
** and the 15 people we asked were the only voters
*** and none of them were lying, indecisive and/or trolling us
**** also, the ballots must be set up to accurately represent the skewed question we asked
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@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
if voters actually voted for a particular candidate, and not the electoral college
They're using an electoral college model, unless you're talking about faithless electors?
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@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
@Lorne-Kates said in We can do better than that:
if voters actually voted for a particular candidate, and not the electoral college
They're using an electoral college model, unless you're talking about faithless electors?
Third option: I don't know what I'm talking about at all.
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Polls are fun.
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@Maciejasjmj said in We can do better than that:
clinton-has-5-point-lead-over-trump
Polls are fun.
Trump has a two point lead over Clinton:
Filed under: Though given the tiny, shriveled cheetos he calls "fingers", that's only a 1.17 point lead
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Meh. Trump's already won, no matter what happens in November. Remember the Clintons' famous motto, "It's the economy, stupid!"
The economic recovery from 2008 is getting pretty long in the tooth, and we're due for a serious
recessioncrash any day now. And because government bailouts interrupted the last crash halfway through, without allowing it to clean up the systemic problems that created the conditions that led to the crash, that inherent instability is still there and we've spent the better part of the last decade building on that foundation. Which means the next crash is likely to be bigger and worse than the last one.- If it happens before the election, it's Obama's fault. Democrats lose a lot of votes. (See also: the 2008 election.) Trump becomes president.
- If it happens after the election, and Hillary won, it's Obama's (and Hillary's) fault, as she's running on a platform of continuing his policies. Trump is vindicated.
- If it happens after the election, and Trump won, it's Obama's fault, underscoring his narrative that the system is rigged against ordinary Americans; just look at this mess he left us to deal with! (See also: blaming the previous administration for the conditions that led to 9/11.) Trump is vindicated.
If Hillary becomes President, Trump still has a massive following among the American people, and a revitalized media empire (and just look at who the people running his campaign are!) that's possibly powerful enough to break Fox News's monopoly on conservative thought in news reporting. Trump wins.
The next 4 years (at the very least) are going to be a mess. The Democrats' best possible strategy right now would be to find some way to throw the election, spin the narrative to blame Republicans for the mess that ensues, and put Bernie Sanders on the ballot in 2020. But of course no one's thinking about the long term.
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@Maciejasjmj said in We can do better than that:
Polls are fun.
Yeah, those things are all over the place. The post I linked aggregates polls and does some statistical jiggery pokery and comes up with some kind of prediction. In 2012 it predicted a healthy Obama victory and many Republicans didn't believe it (largely because they didn't believe the turnout model for 2012 would be so similar to 2008) and were branded poll-deniers or something silly like that.
Anyways, the point is just that it's completely up in the air at this point. I may even break my streak of ignoring debates and watch the one tonight.
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@boomzilla said in We can do better than that:
Anyways, the point is