And Blakey's back to feed some life into the topic.
Posts made by NeighborhoodButcher
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher Did you disable it, or was it just working and you didn't realise? Because it's been on by default since Win8
It was disabled. Hell, I even forgot that it exists. Now it's disabled again, and everything works fine as before. Side note: MS also does this stuff with privacy settings, when sometimes they tend to get reset.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher are you under the impression that fast boot is new to the fall Creators Update? It's been there since Windows 10 was released, possibly since 8.
Whatever broke for you (and apparently only you) was presumably some interaction between fast boot and some other part of your system or hardware.
It wasn't enabled for me, and suddenly it was after the update. And it broke the OS. And it didn't increase performance. Again - how is this better than asking or informing me in the first place?
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@tsaukpaetra said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Sure it was an option. Where when and how was the user prompted that it was a thing and should it be enabled [y/n]?
If you can produce documented reproducible evidence this occurred I will accept it.
Trying a diversion, eh? Sorry, but eristic won't work here. On the other hand, I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how quietly enabling a feature which broke my OS and gave no visible performance improvement on my type of hardware is better than asking me in the first place. Or even simply saying "hey, we enabled this cool feature".
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@el_heffe and the rest of us, non-core customers, get their OS fucked up for a total of 0% perceivable improvement.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa actually, it would be fun if some of them showed up here, along with blakey :)
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Oh, yeah compare browser caching which existed for years, to a feature introduced (or enabled?) with the latest OS update. Which wasn't communicated to the user in any way. Cool story bro.
What was the first browser to introduce caching? Did it offer an option or just turn it on by default? Standard features have to come from somewhere
Yes, it was an option.
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
You have the option to turn this off. The vast majority of people buy a pre-built computer or laptop, don't touch a single setting in their life, and would (and do) benefit from this feature being turned on by default.
I'm glad I can turn it off, but first I need to know it's there, and it's enabled. Neither of those things have been communicated. It also isn't something established well enough to be considered a standard. Hell, if I knew, I wouldn't have created this topic in the first place and simply turned the damned thing off.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Browser caching is a thing know to users
Is it? I bet most of my non developer friends don't know or care what browser caching is, have no idea how to turn it off if they decided they didn't want it, and wouldn't know what setting to search for as the word cache isn't part of their daily vocabulary.
So, pretty similar to fast boot
True, but neither you or I fall into the category of such users. It's a difference when something is an established standard (but unknown to the most basic of users), and when something is a new addition.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
browser caching is a standard thing you expect to be there
Fast boot is a standard feature of Windows 10 that I expect to be there
Oh, yeah compare browser caching which existed for years, to a feature introduced (or enabled?) with the latest OS update. Which wasn't communicated to the user in any way. Cool story bro.
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
browser caching gives you noticeable performance boost
Fast boot gives a noticeable performance boost
Not for me, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Another argument for actually asking the user. Or letting it boot once and asking if he likes it. Or whatever else which involves asking. If it works for you - great, but again, I don't give a shit about you.
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
the browser doesn't dump 32GB of data each time you close it
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I don't want such decisions to be made without asking or informing me, regardless on the magnitude of implications
Cool, but you forgot that the important part is the one you've not made bold. Browser caching is a thing know to users and everyone can turn it off, when needed. It's not hidden so you must first know what to search for to actually find it, to make a decision if you want it.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@jaloopa said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher My web browser writes to disc to cache things and speed them up. I was never asked about this and it reduces the lifespan of my disc. Why is it any different for my OS to do the same?
Because:
- browser caching is a standard thing you expect to be there
- browser caching gives you noticeable performance boost
- the browser doesn't dump 32GB of data each time you close it
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@izzion said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher
Oh, I understood the pendantry you're aiming for. But when the change is from "multiples of the useful life of a computer" to "multiples of the useful life of a computer", it's not a functional change.And you obviously didn't read the link I provided and don't follow SSD testing articles, since Samsung PRO drives like the precursors to the 900 tested to 800TB in that link, and Samsung drives routinely test to 800-1000TB in similar tests (though Intel and Corsairs test better, so by going with Samsung you're still going with the cheap/shitty drives )
No, you didn't understand and your comment only confirms it. Let me repeat - I don't want such decisions to be made without asking or informing me, regardless on the magnitude of implications (and in my case - screwing up the whole OS). If I wanted to dump my ram to disk, I would do it, because I would be happy at reducing my hw lifespan by whatever and it would be my decision. If you categorize such decision on the subjective impact they have on you - fine, but I don't give a shit about you.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@izzion said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher
Let's say you'reone of those people for whom data caps really cramp your porn torrenting stylea heavy content creator, and you write 1TB of new videos to your disk every month, writing to the SSD first for performance before shipping it off to cheaper long term storage. But you were cheap, so your SSD only has an expected life cycle of 800TB written, or 66 years.Now Windows 10 comes along, and it's writing 24GB of data to your disk every time you "shut down" at night, since the LEDs on your case fans are so bright the neighbors complain if you don't shut down. This increases your monthly writes to 1.75TB, thus lowering your hard drive's expected useful lifetime by 42%!!!... From 10x the useful life of the rest of the components to 6x.
Whoop.
De.
Do.
Ok, so you were unable to understand what I meant by "whatever the amount is". Let me help by providing an explanation.
I don't like that someone made the decision to enable such feature without asking or even telling me, especially when such feature has a measurable impact on my hardware. Because asking the user is too passe in 2017, right? If you don't give a shit about such things - fine, that's your decision. But it needs to be a decision in the first place.
Also, I have my OS on 950 pro which is rated at 200TB, not 800 like older cell configurations, but that's besides the point. Just to point out that cheaper SSDs have actually longer lifespans. Nice attempt at assuming the other side doesn't know it.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@heterodox said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher Oh, please. If you're going to treat your computer like a Fabergé egg, every moment it's powered on and you're not typing is wasting component life for no reason.
Computers are meant to be used.
Oh, right, abusing the lifespan of my disk while gaining nothing is a good use case.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@izzion said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher
Though given that even shitty SSDs routinely test to 800TB+ of writes in useful lifetime, it's not exactly a significant portion of the SSD's useful life, unless you're "shutting down" once an hour or something.Whatever the amount is, that's disk life wasted for no reason.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@hungrier said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
For the first point, as Windows knows if it's installed on a mechanical drive or an SSD it could set the default state as active or inactive as needed. It would be nice with a checkbox in the settings for it so it'd be easier to enable and disable too, maybe with an explanation of what it does.
Or, without having to detect anything, it could default to the option that is just as fast or faster, and works without any issue for 90+% of people, and still have that setting.
Also kills the SSD in the meantime.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@anonymous234 said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@atazhaia said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the need for FastBoot on a computer equipped with an SSD.
Because it's faster than a normal boot, I assume.
After turning it off, I can say this unnoticeable. But I'm on a M.2 NVMe SSD.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
I made a test and disabled fast boot. The OS managed to shut itself down. More testing is required, but I guess I've found the reason.
Congratulations to MS for creating such a dumpsterfire of an OS. They haven't made such a turd since Windows 8.
No shit, Sherlock. Windows 8 was the previous OS. Windows 10 is the only thing since Windows 8.
Reading between the lines isn't your strong point, no?
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
I made a test and disabled fast boot. The OS managed to shut itself down. More testing is required, but I guess I've found the reason.
Congratulations to MS for creating such a dumpsterfire of an OS. They haven't made such a turd since Windows 8.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@pie_flavor said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Simply put - it doesn't. Every time I want to shut down the computer, the OS switches to the login screen (and quietly logs me in, in the background). The only way I can shut down my computer is to reboot it and press the power button before Windows starts.
Could you reword that so I know I have it correct? Because what I'm hearing you saying is that if you click Start, click the power icon, and click Shut Down, it simply locks the screen. Which is patently retarded.
Actually, it's more bizarre. When I click "shutdown" the system attempts to shut down and even turns off all USB devices and the screen. Then, after a second, everything pops back to life and I'm back at the login screen. At that point, things get even more complicated:
- When I try to shut down/reboot from the login screen - it simply does nothing.
- When I log in and try to shut down - it logs me off and I'm back to the login screen.
- Only reboot after logging in works.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@anonymous234 said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@timebandit said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Every time I want to shut down the computer, the OS switches to the login screen (and quietly logs me in, in the background). The only way I can shut down my computer is the reboot it and press the power button before Windows starts.
<Windows-apologist.png>: Don't blame Windows for your faulty hardware (Because Windows 10 is the-best-OS-in-the-universe)
I hate defending Windows, but the fact is that 99% of hardware (and its drivers) is a buggy, dysfunctional piece of shit, and most of those weird computer problems come from it.
Well, before the update, the OS somehow managed to shut down faster than science funding under Trump.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@lb_ said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Windows even managed to fuck me up more by unpausing it.
Actually, Windows only restarted your device. Chrome decided it wanted to run at startup, Chrome decided to focus the tab that had the YouTube video, YouTube decided years ago that autoplaying videos should be the only option forever, and YouTube only refrains from autoplaying videos if the tab is not in focus when the page loads.
Next time enable this Chrome flag to make sure YouTube can't screw you over:
chrome://flags/#autoplay-policy
That might be it. Will try after next
shutdownreboot. -
RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@blakeyrat said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
It's not only Chrome. I see other applications being already started when I log in,
99% of the time when people say "log in" they really mean "computer woke from sleep".
You're already logged-in at that point, you're just unlocking your screen. So yeah, it makes perfect sense that your applications are running just the same way they were when you put the machine to sleep, that's how it's all supposed to work.
Like I said, the only mild surprise here is that applications not currently being displayed can play audio. But I can see a lot of use-cases where you'd want that behavior, so.
I don't put my system to sleep, so by "log in" I mean "log in".
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@blakeyrat said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Just FYI, you never had to be (interactively) logged-in for Chrome to play stuff. Windows just doesn't work that way. Although it is kind of interesting that your desktop has control of the speakers even with the login desktop has control of the monitor.
It's not only Chrome. I see other applications being already started when I log in, but I just assumed they manage to simply start fast. Now I know some bad voodoo is going on in the background.
@neighborhoodbutcher said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
Also now I don't know where I finished watching this video the last time.
Next time pause it?
It was. Windows even managed to fuck me up more by unpausing it.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@lb_ if you mean this one:
@dcon said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
@brisingraerowing That's different. Is that an Insider build? Or am I different because Enterprise... (I'm on 16299)
Clicking sign-in options takes me to the Signin options (scroll/scroll)
I don't see that either.
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RE: Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
@brisingraerowing said in Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish:
See that checkbox I circled? You probably have that checked. Uncheck it to stop the auto log in.
Funny, I don't have that checkbox.
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Fall Creators Update, or how to fuck up the OS from start to finish
So the update happened...
Since then this asswipe piece of shit OS, known as Windows 10, does some weird things when starting up. Today, without logging in, I heard YouTube playing from my computer. After entering my password I was greeted with the browser playing a YT video. Turns out Windows decided to quietly log me even without even telling me.Also now I don't know where I finished watching this video the last time.
And to add insult to injury, for some reason my monitor is switched to power saving mode as soon as the OS starts.
So that is the startup sheep sodomizing fuckery, but let's go to shutting down. Simply put - it doesn't. Every time I want to shut down the computer, the OS switches to the login screen (and quietly logs me in, in the background). The only way I can shut down my computer is to reboot it and press the power button before Windows starts.
I really hope the person who greenlit this donkey turd of an update gets broomraped, first anally, then orally.
I'm a bit discontent.
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RE: Enlightened
Oh, it's that time of year for another error result vs exception fight.
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RE: Mobile race condition
@gąska this happened to me ages ago when mobile phones were pretty much non-existent. It's possible even with old analog lines.
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RE: Enlightened
@morowhat said in Enlightened:
I've been working on EFL applications for the last 6 months
and that's the rant i've been wanting to makeSamsung? Or did EFL found a second user?
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RE: Enlightened
@asdf do you think anyone has time to use some unholy tools that help development? What next - running valgrind? Not on this system.
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RE: Enlightened
@boomzilla with EFL you delete until you crash. Then comment out the last deletion and you're done - memory properly freed!
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RE: Enlightened
Ah, the good old ways of deleting a single thing in EFL - the smart way:
static void _e_icon_smart_del(Evas_Object *obj) { E_Smart_Data *sd; if (!(sd = evas_object_smart_data_get(obj))) return; evas_object_del(sd->obj); evas_object_del(sd->eventarea); .... evas_object_smart_data_set(obj, NULL); memset(sd, 0, sizeof(*sd)); // <= free(sd); }
Such elegance and obviousness... So little code needed...
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RE: Enlightened
@dkf because Koreans.
Also, I'm surprised nobody noticed how many instances of this singleton can be created and what the results are.
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RE: Enlightened
@Zecc it might be an attempt to circumvent offsets with multiple inheritance when, you know, you want to include your singleton in the middle of the class tree.
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RE: Enlightened
Singletons - the Korean way:
template <typename T> class singleton { public: static T * ms_singleton; singleton() { assert(!ms_singleton); long offset = (long) (T*) 1 - (long) (singleton <T>*) (T*) 1; ms_singleton = (T*) ((long) this + offset); } virtual ~singleton() { assert(ms_singleton); ms_singleton = 0; } static T & instance() { assert(ms_singleton); return (*ms_singleton); } static T & Instance() { assert(ms_singleton); return (*ms_singleton); } static T * instance_ptr() { return (ms_singleton); } }; template <typename T> T * singleton <T>::ms_singleton = NULL;
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RE: Enlightened
@cvi said in Enlightened:
@NeighborhoodButcher said in Enlightened:
You might also notice how an app is launched. I'm leaving figuring out what's wrong with it as an exercise to the reader (hint: _start, _init...).
A bit late to the party, but ... fuck ... why?
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RE: Enlightened
Just downloaded the official open source package for TVs, and I see Samsung conveniently omitted much code. I wonder how many licenses they break by that.
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RE: The never type
@dkf damn English language. Should have put nothing in "". We should all speak Korean.
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RE: The never type
I didn't read through all the comments so I may be repeating someone, but the never type is actually a good idea. It's nothing more than a compile time check if you want to give the result of something which never should return one. Granted, these are niche cases, but it's better than nothing. And nothing is better than JS.
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RE: Enlightened
@Amihai short answer: they're idiots. Long answer: some Korean manager most likely told them to do it this way, and since Samsung management is modeled after Korean society, nobody was allowed to object, because a manager is always right by definition and good employees should not question any orders, ever.
For example - people were told to allow widgets to fetch any http content. Ok, so now widgets are allowed to fetch http, but not https:
https://review.tizen.org/git/?p=platform/framework/web/wrt.git;a=blob;f=src/view/webkit/injected-bundle/injected_bundle_uri_handling.cpp;h=6ed9810bf9b8af0176c596a605c09b35d6e66dfd;hb=HEAD#l138EDIT: Upon inspection, it turns out the non-TV wrt does not have http explicitly enabled. Now that's a surprise.
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RE: Enlightened
@asdf fortunately, I escaped that Korean concentration camp some time ago. Looking at Tizen source brought back some memories...
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RE: Enlightened
@asdf That's the standard synchronization method in Tizen. I got so used to it, I don't even notice it anymore.
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RE: Enlightened
@dkf execva() would work without problems. That's enough not to use it.
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RE: Enlightened
Another thing I just remember. There was (is?) a daemon process responsible for launching apps. It has to be run with a very long string as a parameter. People were curious why that was and one they they checked. And it was not a pretty sight. You see, this app forked itself and launched the app it was supposed to launch. But it needed to pass some arguments to the new process. Now the Korean programmers faced a problem - where to put those arguments? Make a string buffer? Nah, that would be too obvious. So why not use the first argument passed from the shell to the daemon itself and use it as the buffer? Now, that's a solution! So a new rule was forged - never run the daemon without at least 200 spaces as the first argument.
EDIT: It's still here :) https://review.tizen.org/git/?p=platform/framework/web/wrt.git;a=blob;f=src/wrt-launchpad-daemon/launchpad_src/launchpad.c;h=4171cf10ae5ba9ec04619e42c356771e81b9e7e0;hb=HEAD#l494
You might also notice how an app is launched. I'm leaving figuring out what's wrong with it as an exercise to the reader (hint: _start, _init...).
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RE: Enlightened
While we're on a topic of synchronization in Tizen, I just remembered the Indian Webkit Optimization Event. Some time ago, a bunch of brilliant Indian programmers were tasked in optimizing page rendering in EWebkit. And optimize they did - every page loaded much faster. Unfortunately, it didn't took much time to notice some minor bugs like half of the page not rendering randomly. By inspecting the optimizations it turns out they were quite genius in their simplicity - if you remove all thread synchronization, everything will work faster.
A few programmers wept that day.