Mac is for usability



  • I always thought that macs got where they are by putting usability and design first. Having just moved to a full mac shop, I now need to use one all the time.

    I use two keyboard layouts frequently though out the day. I have just a 'feature' of Lion. Should you log out, the last language you were using is the one that you log in with. Better yet there is no indication of what laguage is currently set. And also, no way to change it.

    Thank god my 'language' is just a remapping of the characters so I could get in without jumping through to many hoops, unlike this guy


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @SandGroper said:

    Better yet there is no indication of what laguage is currently set. And also, no way to change it.
    Been like that for a while apparently (that thread's from May 2010. Seemingly related complaints from Aug 09)



  • That reminds me of a former boss's son who set up a password to log into Windows when his computer booted. Then he promptly forgot what the password was.

    Eventually he swapped the motherboard to make his computer usable again. lol



  • Macs are very usable, if you don't really use them. But if you do, especially if you need to do anything technical, you will curse and swear and hate your life. They're great for checking Facebook and looking at lolcats though.



  • @SandGroper said:

    I always thought that macs got where they are by putting usability and design first.

    See that's where you are wrong.  They got where they are by having a kick ass marketing team.  They kept thier customers by locking them in so they couldn't go anywhere else without rebuilding a lot of thier data.

    Sounds like standard business practices to me.



  • There is, in fact, a feature to display and allow changing which keyboard layout is being used at the login prompt, and it is enabled on all Macs I administer, but it's a shame that it is disabled by default. I can only guess as to why; security maybe?



  • @KattMan said:

    They got where they are by having a kick ass marketing team.
    Well, they convinced most of the graphic design folks out there. Now the rest of us have to cope with those graphic designers. Sigh.

     


  • Fake News

    @mott555 said:

    especially if you need to do anything technical, you will curse and swear and hate your life
    QFT. The only native development platform for Apple devices consists of Objective-C and Xcode. It's like programming under Visual C++ and Visual Studio back in the late 90's; to do anything remotely complex requires a fuckton of code, and debugging is Hell on earth. However, if you wish to do native Apple development, that's what you need to use...



  • cheers for that, its enabled for me as well now. To bad you don't really know about it till it bites you (or someone else you know) in the ass though.



  • @lolwhat said:

    @mott555 said:
    especially if you need to do anything technical, you will curse and swear and hate your life
    QFT. The only native development platform for Apple devices consists of Objective-C and Xcode. It's like programming under Visual C++ and Visual Studio back in the late 90's; to do anything remotely complex requires a fuckton of code, and debugging is Hell on earth. However, if you wish to do native Apple development, that's what you need to use...
     

    Here's a good one. Our app needs to support the new iPad HD for obvious reasons. We don't have an iPad HD to debug on, but there is a simulator. But the simulator is so huge because of the high resolution that it doesn't physically fit on our 1080p iMac screen. Even if you scale it to the smallest setting (50%) a large part of it is cut off. Basically it is totally useless, and it takes you about ten seconds of using it to reach that conclusion. I wonder if Apple even fired it up to make sure it works after they compiled the new version.



  • @lolwhat said:

    @mott555 said:
    especially if you need to do anything technical, you will curse and swear and hate your life
    QFT. The only native development platform for Apple devices consists of Objective-C and Xcode. It's like programming under Visual C++ and Visual Studio back in the late 90's; to do anything remotely complex requires a fuckton of code, and debugging is Hell on earth. However, if you wish to do native Apple development, that's what you need to use...
     

    Objective-C.  Because some programmer somewhere woke up one morning with a bad hangover and said, "I think I'll invent a new language that combines the safety, user-friendliness and code readability of C with the incredible performance characteristics of Smalltalk!"



  • @Mason Wheeler said:

    @lolwhat said:

    @mott555 said:
    especially if you need to do anything technical, you will curse and swear and hate your life
    QFT. The only native development platform for Apple devices consists of Objective-C and Xcode. It's like programming under Visual C++ and Visual Studio back in the late 90's; to do anything remotely complex requires a fuckton of code, and debugging is Hell on earth. However, if you wish to do native Apple development, that's what you need to use...
     

    Objective-C.  Because some Steve Jobs woke up one morning with a bad hangover and said, "I think I'll invent a new language that combines the safety, user-friendliness and code readability of C with the incredible performance characteristics of Smalltalk!"

    JTFY



  • You guys all talk like Apple raped your children and killed your dog.

    If any of you had actually used OSX to do work, you'd realize quite quickly that Windows does a lot of stupid things. Why in windows can't I drag files willy-nilly to an application to open them? There's the odd app that will support it, but for 99% of others.. I haffto navigate a filesystem.

    In OSX if you can't drag a file from anywhere (another apps proxy icon, desktop, finder window).. the app isn't doing what it should.

    Why in Windows does everything feel "wrong" if I don't have stuff maximized. (Oh, because I'd never be able to find any window I wanted if it wasn't maximized).

    OSX works well with its organized chaos. Windows are just kinda.. where you left them in your stack of windows. Mission Control/Exposé does an excellent job of bringing applications back to the front.

    And don't get me started on Linux. Without a GUI, Linux is fantastic.. but the instant you start up X11 and KDE/Gnome/<insert WM here>.. It's a fucking atrocious gongshow. Developers should never be allowed to visually design software, Linux is a really good case study of this.



  • @gu3st said:

    You guys all talk like Apple raped your children and killed your dog.

    If any of you had actually used OSX to do work, you'd realize quite quickly that Windows does a lot of stupid things.

    I use OSX every day at work, and indeed it did rape my children and kill my dog. If you had actually used OSX to do work you would realize that. And if you were smart enough to read the 514-page EULA before using it, you'd see it even warns you ahead of time with a nice disclaimer saying there's nothing you can do about it and you just gotta bend over and take it like a man.



  • @Mason Wheeler said:

    Objective-C.  Because some programmer somewhere woke up one morning with a bad hangover and said, "I think I'll invent a new language that combines the safety, user-friendliness and code readability of C with the incredible performance characteristics of Smalltalk!"

    Good thing I just finished my coffee otherwise it would have shot out my nose.


    I can see why it was used. Steve came from NeXT with openstep (which was obj-c) and they used that for OS X, but geez that was '96. Languages have come a bit further since then. Hell it was showing it's age in the 90s what with Java 1 being introduced in '95 and 1.2 in '98. It's 2012 now. Look at what Xamarin did with mono on android (http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/)!



  • Drag/drop targets in Windows require the application to be written to accept the drag/drop and know what to do with it.  Has nothing to do with Windows.  Same as what you wrote about OSX:  "In OSX if you can't drag a file from anywhere (another apps proxy icon,
    desktop, finder window).. the app isn't doing what it should."

    I've used OSX once, and it appeared to be a cobbled up kludge of dog shit.

    Windows is generally pretty useless to me with all windows maximized...  Unless I'm working on one thing at a time.  Can't help you with organizing your windows.  That's sounds like more of a training issue.

    You are correct that Linux is an ugly and even more kludged up piece of dog shit.



  • @mott555 said:

    I use OSX every day at work, and indeed it did rape my children and kill my dog. If you had actually used OSX to do work you would realize that. And if you were smart enough to read the 514-page EULA before using it, you'd see it even warns you ahead of time with a nice disclaimer saying there's nothing you can do about it and you just gotta bend over and take it like a man.

    Not as bad as the iTunes EULA: i.e. having your lips conjoined to another person's anus..



  • @gu3st said:

    You guys all talk like Apple raped your children and killed your dog.

    Apple isn't nearly cool enough to rape anything. No, it just churns out mediocre products that are gobbled up by braindead drones.

    @gu3st said:

    Why in windows can't I drag files willy-nilly to an application to open them? There's the odd app that will support it, but for 99% of others.. I haffto navigate a filesystem.

    In OSX if you can't drag a file from anywhere (another apps proxy icon, desktop, finder window).. the app isn't doing what it should.

    Admittedly, that's a useful feature, but it's really not a big deal.

    @gu3st said:

    Why in Windows does everything feel "wrong" if I don't have stuff maximized. (Oh, because I'd never be able to find any window I wanted if it wasn't maximized).

    OSX works well with its organized chaos. Windows are just kinda.. where you left them in your stack of windows. Mission Control/Exposé does an excellent job of bringing applications back to the front.

    You are so full of shit. Just because you apparently maximize every window doesn't mean the rest of us don't have sense. And you can find windows just fine, maximized or not. OSX is the real piece of shit in this department; Expose works with about a dozen windows, then becomes a bigger clusterfuck than the taskbar. And when you get right down to it, Expose is just a prettier version of Alt-Tab.

    So basically these are your two complaints: can't drag files onto an application shortcut and you don't know how to use a window manager. Now here are my complaints:

    • Why the fuck is the toolbar at the top of the screen instead of the top of the window? This if flat-out retarded and indefensible.
    • Why can't I maximize windows? I had this argument with an Apple zombie. *takes huge iBong hit* "Well, man, you don't need to maximize windows, man." "I want to. I'm viewing a web page and I don't want to see all of my other windows around the periphery, I want the web page to take up the whole screen." *silence* "You just don't get Macs, man." "Shut the fuck and get a job you worthless goddamn hippie."
    • The visual style. Brushed aluminum and plastic icons abound. It's tacky and unprofessional. I feel like I'm looking at a Fisher Price toy.
    • Settings implicitly apply without me doing anything to save them. Backing out changes becomes a game of wits.
    • I have to "mount" a file (which then appears on my desktop) so I can install an application. Then I need to unmount it. What the fuck is this shit?
    • Stability: non-existent. The Macs I worked with crashed the OS on a regular basis (at least once a week). It was like working with Windows 98 with Active Desktop again, but in 2009.
    • Configurability: less-than-non-existent. If you don't like the way something works, tough shit.
    • Package managers: there are 3 third-party package managers and none of them are worth a wet dog shit. Trying to set up a development environment with Apache and MySQL is like having your balls cut off. And forget trying to compile non-OSX packages.
    • Terminal.app is a piece of shit. iTerm isn't much better. Why the fuck don't HOME and END function properly? Listen, Apple: you lost the fucking desktop wars. Stop trying to be different and start trying to be useful.


    I could literally go on for 20 more pages, no joke. But you're not here to be convinced, so it's a waste of my time.

    @gu3st said:

    And don't get me started on Linux. Without a GUI, Linux is fantastic.. but the instant you start up X11 and KDE/Gnome/.. It's a fucking atrocious gongshow. Developers should never be allowed to visually design software, Linux is a really good case study of this.

    Agree with you there. The problem, and what you don't seem to realize, is that OSX is just a slightly-more-polished turd than Linux, but it's still a turd. People who have used a real desktop environment (read: Windows) think both are garbage.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @gu3st said:

    You guys all talk like Apple raped your children and killed your dog.

    If any of you had actually used OSX to do work, you'd realize quite quickly that Windows does a lot of stupid things. Why in windows can't I drag files willy-nilly to an application to open them? There's the odd app that will support it, but for 99% of others.. I haffto navigate a filesystem.

    In OSX if you can't drag a file from anywhere (another apps proxy icon, desktop, finder window).. the app isn't doing what it should.

    Why in Windows does everything feel "wrong" if I don't have stuff maximized. (Oh, because I'd never be able to find any window I wanted if it wasn't maximized).

    OSX works well with its organized chaos. Windows are just kinda.. where you left them in your stack of windows. Mission Control/Exposé does an excellent job of bringing applications back to the front.

    And don't get me started on Linux. Without a GUI, Linux is fantastic.. but the instant you start up X11 and KDE/Gnome/.. It's a fucking atrocious gongshow. Developers should never be allowed to visually design software, Linux is a really good case study of this.

    It looks like someone didn't get the memo. The general principle is that no one can be expected to learn more than one OS. Therefore, whichever OS the average person learns first is the one that works correctly, and everything else is crap.



  • @PedanticCurmudgeon said:

    It looks like someone didn't get the memo. The general principle is that no one can be expected to learn more than one OS. Therefore, whichever OS the average person learns first is the one that works correctly, and everything else is crap.

    Hmm.. the first computer I used was an Apple IIe (which I guess doesn't really have an OS). Then a Mac. Then DOS. Then Windows for Workgroups 3.11. I don't think any of them are great by today's standards.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    I actually have a similar history, but my home machines are all running Linux. I reboot the desktop into Windows 7 when I have to work from home. I have a Mac mini that hasn't been powered up in about a year.



  • @PedanticCurmudgeon said:

    I actually have a similar history, but my home machines are all running Linux. I reboot the desktop into Windows 7 when I have to work from home. I have a Mac mini that hasn't been powered up in about a year.

    Does this mean you have a documented case of a MAC that hasn't crashed in about a year?  Best OS yet!



  • @SandGroper said:

    I always thought that macs got where they are by putting usability and design first.

    They were at any time prior to about 2002.



  • @gu3st said:

    In OSX if you can't drag a file from anywhere (another apps proxy icon, desktop, finder window).. the app isn't doing what it should.

    It never occurred to you that in Windows if you can't drag a file from anywhere, the app also isn't doing what it should?

    @gu3st said:

    Why in Windows does everything feel "wrong" if I don't have stuff maximized.

    Crippling psychological disorder?

    @gu3st said:

    Windows are just kinda.. where you left them in your stack of windows. Mission Control/Exposé does an excellent job of bringing applications back to the front.

    If only Microsoft had a feature like that. They could hook up convenient keyboard shortcut, say... Alt plus... I dunno, Tab? Alt-Tab! I'm going to email them about this awesome idea right now.

    @gu3st said:

    Developers should never be allowed to visually design software, Linux is a really good case study of this.

    That I agree with.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @KattMan said:

    @PedanticCurmudgeon said:

    I actually have a similar history, but my home machines are all running Linux. I reboot the desktop into Windows 7 when I have to work from home. I have a Mac mini that hasn't been powered up in about a year.

    Does this mean you have a documented case of a MAC that hasn't crashed in about a year?  Best OS yet!

    Actually, it's 2 years. I was running Ubuntu on it.


  •  Legitimate question here.  Recently being forced to use a Mac for work, I've developed a keen hatred of it, for many of the reasons in this thread.   But why the hate for Linux?  I personally consider Gnome 2 to be one of the best desktop environments ever designed.  It basically behaves the same way as windows, but has fewer rough edges for me.  Most notably, the drawers don't expand into a mountain of individual folders for each installed application, and you can arrange your panels however you like (or remove them entirely if you prefer).  Small changes, but coupled with a well designed underlying OS, a usable terminal, and virtual desktops, it's easily my favourite.

     I'm honestly curious what the problem is with it.  If you are talking about Unity or Gnome 3, then yes.  Those ones absolutely suck.



  • @spamcourt said:

    I'm honestly curious what the problem is with it.  If you are talking about Unity or Gnome 3, then yes.  Those ones absolutely suck.

    Yes.

    @spamcourt said:

     Legitimate question here.  Recently being forced to use a Mac for work, I've developed a keen hatred of it, for many of the reasons in this thread.   But why the hate for Linux?  I personally consider Gnome 2 to be one of the best desktop environments ever designed.  It basically behaves the same way as windows, but has fewer rough edges for me.  Most notably, the drawers don't expand into a mountain of individual folders for each installed application, and you can arrange your panels however you like (or remove them entirely if you prefer).  Small changes, but coupled with a well designed underlying OS, a usable terminal, and virtual desktops, it's easily my favourite.

    Gnome 2 is one of the better (if not the best) Linux desktops. It still has a lot of issues. To name two: the network management applet gets fucked up sometimes, refusing to connect to any new networks, the only way to fix it is to reboot (even killing X and restarting it doesn't help); and I've never had much luck with second monitors--it frequently screws up the screen or completely locks up the computer. I ended up writing my own daemon to detect monitor events and call through to xrandr, which turned out to be far more stable than relying on Gnome's built-in multi-monitor detection. Note: this is my experience on multiple version of Ubuntu and different hardware configurations, so it's not just a hardware or software bug.

    The big problem with Linux desktop is that it just blows. There's little good software for it. I almost exclusively use the CLI, but even then I can tell that the GUI apps suck.



  • @gu3st said:

    You guys all talk like Apple raped your children and killed your dog.

    You've said that already...

    @gu3st said:
    Why in windows can't I drag files willy-nilly to an application to open them? ...

    In OSX if you can't drag a file from anywhere (another apps proxy icon, desktop, finder window).. the app isn't doing what it should.

    So if the app doesn't work properly in Windows, it's Window's fault. If the app doesn't work properly in OSX, it's the app's fault. I smell fanboi.

    @gu3st said:
    Why in Windows does everything feel "wrong" if I don't have stuff maximized.

    That's simply your "feeling". Maximising a window to me feels "wrong" since I multitask between different apps... but that's simply my "feeling". See what I did there? It's about personal experience rather than factual evidence.

    @gu3st said:
    OSX works well with its organized chaos. Windows are just kinda.. where you left them in your stack of windows. Mission Control/Exposé does an excellent job of bringing applications back to the front.

    I'm a bit confused here. Does OSX work well, or does it rely on this Mission Control to manage the organised chaos? And if I left my windows in a stack, that's where I'd expect to find when upon my return. Is there some magical Mary-poppins process on OSX that does something different to the windows once you turn your back?

    @gu3st said:
    And don't get me started on Linux. Without a GUI, Linux is fantastic.. but the instant you start up X11 and KDE/Gnome/.. It's a fucking atrocious gongshow. Developers should never be allowed to visually design software, Linux is a really good case study of this.

    Riiiiight... where the hell did THAT come from? Or does shitting over the competition make your throbbing shiny tower even shinier? Dude, your Macwankery is too obvious.



  • Thanks for the input.  Yeah, NetworkManager had a pretty rough start.  But it's been behaving itself well for me personally for a few years now, aside from not connecting to a wireless network before the first user logs in.  I lack a second monitor, so I can't comment on that, but it worked okay for me with the nvidia proprietary driver the one time I did try it.

    I honestly see these sorts of things as system bugs, more than GUI problems.  Pulseaudio is also quite terrible, if we are counting buggy software.  But once you do get that sort of thing ironed out, it does behave really well

     But thanks again for your opinion.  I appreciate it.



  • Used OSX a little : hated it's guts.

    Used Win XP (and earlier) a lot : loved it (it's still sort of good)

    Used Win 7 a lot : hated it's guts initially, but after heavy customizations and third-party additions, made it quite good

    Used Linux with different environments a lot : mixed feelings :

    • KDE is ok, Gnome 2 as well
    • Enlightenment is strange, but gets cool once you understand you can do whatever with it
    • Gnome 3 sucks ass on it's own, but Cinnamon is on just the right track (using it and loving it since day 1... buggy a bit here and there though, but give it time)
    • XFCE/LXDE/OpenBox etc are too bare-bones for me, but do their job well enough
    • Unity... god damn it Mark, why do you hate your users that much?!


  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Hmm.. the first computer I used was an Apple IIe (which I guess doesn't really have an OS).
    It had three: Integer BASIC, Applesoft BASIC, or Apple Pascal, depending upon which floppy disc you put in the drive before powering it up.



  • @spamcourt said:

    I honestly see these sorts of things as system bugs, more than GUI problems.

    I never had these problems when using xrandr or CLI wireless configuration, so they definitely seem to be related to the desktop environment and not Linux itself. And I can't seem to find a way to make NetworkManager go away and to only use a text-file configuration for my network settings (not that I've looked very hard..)

    @spamcourt said:

    Pulseaudio is also quite terrible, if we are counting buggy software.

    Don't get me started on pulseaudio.. Then again, it's lightyears better than ALSA and OSS. Which kind of reaffirms my point that desktop Linux just isn't very good.

    @spamcourt said:

    But thanks again for your opinion.  I appreciate it.

    No prob. Thanks for discussing things without getting into a flamewar.



  • @veggen said:

    * Gnome 3 sucks ass on it's own, but Cinnamon is on just the right track (using it and loving it since day 1... buggy a bit here and there though, but give it time)

    Might check Cinnamon out, since it's inevitable that Gnome 2 will be removed at some point and I will have to embrace Gnome 3.

    @veggen said:

    * XFCE/LXDE/OpenBox etc are too bare-bones for me, but do their job well enough

    I love their bare-bonesedness (I'm not much for eyecandy) but too many things expect Gnome panels to function, so I stopped using them.

    @veggen said:

    * Unity... god damn it Mark, why do you hate your users that much?!

    Yeah, Ubuntu is clearly going insane. Unity's a terrible desktop environment anyway, but it's ridiculous to just dump it on people as the default.



  • @da Doctah said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Hmm.. the first computer I used was an Apple IIe (which I guess doesn't really have an OS).
    It had three: Integer BASIC, Applesoft BASIC, or Apple Pascal, depending upon which floppy disc you put in the drive before powering it up.

    I mean in terms of an OS you directly interacted with.



  •  Fluxbox is easily the best Linux WM.  Back in the XP days, I actually used bbLean in Windows to achieve a similar UI experience, but Win7 is competent enough on its own to render that unnecessary.



  • @ShatteredArm said:

     Fluxbox is easily the best Linux WM.  Back in the XP days, I actually used bbLean in Windows to achieve a similar UI experience, but Win7 is competent enough on its own to render that unnecessary.

    Really, if you have to spend much time thinking about your window manager (beyond settings for "no effects" and "heavy eyecandy"), you have failed as a desktop OS. The competition between dozens of WMs in FOSSland hasn't produced good WMs, it's produced dozens of mediocre WMs. Most are just lame imitations of Windows or OSX. Where they have diverged from the Big Two, it's not towards better UX but towards who can shave the most kilobytes off memory usage by making the most minimal desktop possible. At best, they're toys for power users with OCD.



  •  Two features that Windows or OSX don't have for whatever reason are:

     - Select some text and it's copied to the clipboard, paste it with middle button... why bother with copy/paste???

    - Drag windows with the mouse while holding the Alt key.

     This two features may sound silly, but man do it gets on my nerves when i'm not in Linux.

     

    Oh! And OSX in a 27'' screen is STUPID! You have to move the cursor thru miles of screen to reach the stupid menu. This was ok with 640x480 resolutions but not in a freaking 27''  HD display. Talking about "usability". And the default terminal emulator is also a joke both in Windows and in OSX.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @ShatteredArm said:

     Fluxbox is easily the best Linux WM.  Back in the XP days, I actually used bbLean in Windows to achieve a similar UI experience, but Win7 is competent enough on its own to render that unnecessary.

    Really, if you have to spend much time thinking about your window manager (beyond settings for "no effects" and "heavy eyecandy"), you have failed as a desktop OS. The competition between dozens of WMs in FOSSland hasn't produced good WMs, it's produced dozens of mediocre WMs. Most are just lame imitations of Windows or OSX. Where they have diverged from the Big Two, it's not towards better UX but towards who can shave the most kilobytes off memory usage by making the most minimal desktop possible. At best, they're toys for power users with OCD.

     

    Or maybe I can just do things much faster with Fluxbox or bbLean than I could with Windows (XP) Explorer, once I have it configured the way I like it.  I'd say something that gives me the option to make it work exactly the way I like it is a successful window manager, configuration learning curve be damned.

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Why the fuck is the toolbar at the top of the screen instead of the top of the window? This if flat-out retarded and indefensible.

    I can defend that one (if I'm reading what you are saying correctly). It is the concept of the "mile-high menu". To get to the menu you just mash your mouse as far up the desk as you can reach. No fine motor skills required; can be done by people who haven't got the hang yet of moving the mouse.

    Now this only works for the top-most menu bar, not a button bar below the menu. If that is what you are saying then ignore what I said.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Stop trying to be different and start trying to be useful.

    Bloody hell, Morbs, I think you've just summed up in one sentence everything that is wrong with Apple!



  • @ShatteredArm said:

    Or maybe I can just do things much faster with Fluxbox or bbLean than I could with Windows (XP) Explorer, once I have it configured the way I like it.  I'd say something that gives me the option to make it work exactly the way I like it is a successful window manager, configuration learning curve be damned.

    I mentioned the power users with OCD. I'll also point out that you're probably a net time loss once you factor in the learning curve; hours of screwing with a new WM just to save a second here and there isn't very economical.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Might check Cinnamon out, since it's inevitable that Gnome 2 will be removed at some point and I will have to embrace Gnome 3.

    It's a decent alternative to Gnome 2, but if it's not the right option for you, you always have MATE. Not sure for how long will it be supported, but for now, it's really actively developed.



  • @havokk said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    Why the fuck is the toolbar at the top of the screen instead of the top of the window? This if flat-out retarded and indefensible.

    I can defend that one (if I'm reading what you are saying correctly). It is the concept of the "mile-high menu". To get to the menu you just mash your mouse as far up the desk as you can reach. No fine motor skills required; can be done by people who haven't got the hang yet of moving the mouse.

    No



  • Morbs do you have plans to download your conciousness into some kind of portable unit? Even if it's only an app or something iWilters would be an amazing fountain of wisdom and incredibly convenient.



  • @havokk said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    Why the fuck is the toolbar at the top of the screen instead of the top of the window? This if flat-out retarded and indefensible.

    I can defend that one (if I'm reading what you are saying correctly). It is the concept of the "mile-high menu". To get to the menu you just mash your mouse as far up the desk as you can reach. No fine motor skills required; can be done by people who haven't got the hang yet of moving the mouse.

    Now this only works for the top-most menu bar, not a button bar below the menu. If that is what you are saying then ignore what I said.

    Screens have a bit higher resolution than 512x342 here in the year 2012.

    Even 5 years ago, I'd still agree with you. Today, sitting in front of two 23" 1080p monitors? No.



  • @ubersoldat said:

    Two features that Windows or OSX don't have for whatever reason are:

     - Select some text and it's copied to the clipboard, paste it with middle button... why bother with copy/paste???

    - Drag windows with the mouse while holding the Alt key.

    What??

    - I like my clipboard only with things that I tell it to do.  Also, people actually use their middle mouse button for different things.  Weird, I know.  It's not like there's any programs out there that can configure keys for you.*

    - I can drag windows while holding the mouse button... why would I need the alt key?

     

    Those features do indeed sound silly, and when every feature comes with lots of man-hours of development and testing, I'm glad Windows hasn't adopted them.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @ubersoldat said:

     - Select some text and it's copied to the clipboard, paste it with middle button... why bother with copy/paste???

    - I like my clipboard only with things that I tell it to do.  Also, people actually use their middle mouse button for different things.  Weird, I know.  It's not like there's any programs out there that can configure keys for you.*

    Those features do indeed sound silly, and when every feature comes with lots of man-hours of development and testing, I'm glad Windows hasn't adopted them.

    Now you're just talking out of your ass. Primary selection (that's what this is called) is the thing I miss most when I use Windows. Instead they waste oodles of hours of development and testing on silly sounding frivolity like Aero.



  • @nexekho said:

    Morbs do you have plans to download your conciousness into some kind of portable unit? Even if it's only an app or something iWilters would be an amazing fountain of wisdom and incredibly convenient.

    We had an actual iWilters product, but the FCC shut us down because The Man couldn't deal with someone daring to speak truth to power.

    Also, the substandard components and lead-only solder had a tendency to start towering structure fires.

    Really, the whole thing was screwed from the get-go once Wilters Corp. Portable Electronic Wisdom and Delicious Tapioca Pudding Factory decided to rely on lazy, foreign slave labor. It's like, if I give you a water break then next thing you know you'll want a bathroom break and before you know it the ghost of Josef Stalin is butt-raping Marilyn Monroe. I tried to cut my losses and sell the factory to Foxconn, but they declined because of "shocking human rights violations", the fucking bleeding hearts.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    - I can drag windows while holding the mouse button... why would I need the alt key?

    Holding alt lets you grab any part of the window to drag, instead of just the title bar. It seems like a very minor feature.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    - I can drag windows while holding the mouse button... why would I need the alt key?


    IIRC from my time using Ubuntu it allows you to drag from anywhere on the window not just the bar when holding alt. More useful for playing with wobbly windows than anything else.



  • Yeah, alt-click pretty much allows you to move a window from anywhere. Useful when you have something like chrome open with enough tabs to take over the entire title bar.

    It also lets you drag windows up past the top of the screen, which is useful when some dumb ass made a program that is too damn big for the screen and the bottom is cut off. Such as the Ubuntu installer itself when using a netbook.


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