WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
The thing that amazes me is that there are developers behind this. People who use computers.
And everything works fine if you use exactly the same hardware, screen resolution and layout, all windows maximized all the time, etc. that they do. Don't have the same hardware and workflow? Sucks to be you.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
And everything works fine if you use exactly the same hardware
Hardwhat? Most of the testing for Windows 1x is done in VMs (by MS's own admission). They don't even bother doing much testing on their own hardware, as owners of Surfaces can attest.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
And everything works fine if you use exactly the same hardware
Hardwhat? Most of the testing for Windows 1x is done in VMs (by MS's own admission). They don't even bother doing much testing on their own hardware, as owners of Surfaces can attest.
Yes, but they'll be using, say, a particular monitor to look at stuff.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
When it comes to something like actually being able to move the taskbar to different locations on the screen, there's a number of challenges with that. When you think about having the taskbar on the right or the left, all of a sudden the reflow and the work that all of the apps have to do to be able to understand the environment is just huge.
Amazing. Like that's somehow a new challenge and not something that's already been possible since 1995. Guess such a small company with a brazillion developers just can't afford to have one of them spend 5 days on such an irrelevant feature.
Yeah, I listened to some of the linked video and I'm not sure where she was going with that one.
Later on a reason for having a bottom-only Taskbar was brought up: moving the Taskbar would interfere with touchscreen gestures like swipe in from right for Notifications or swipe in from left for Widgets. Continuing on with
- The swipe gestures worked for me in Windows 8 even when the Taskbar was on the same side.
- My guess is that people who want to move the Taskbar are willing to give up the swipe gestures, if they're even using a touchscreen device.
- Widgets?
Look, if you're going to volunteer to answer questions just be straightforward. I may not like "We're putting things on the sides and corners and having the Taskbar elsewhere would cause problems we aren't interested in solving right now. Sorry." but at least I can respect them for giving an actual answer.
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@Parody what the fuck do swipe gestures have to do with the task bar? If there's no task bar "in the way", there's a different window in the way.
Also, phones don't run Windows anymore.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Parody what the fuck do swipe gestures have to do with the task bar? If there's no task bar "in the way", there's a different window in the way.
There are Taskbar/screen bottom gestures coming like swipe up to show the Start menu or swipe from bottom-right to show the Quick Settings panel.
Edit: I should also add that they picked swiping in from left for Widgets, in from right for Notifications to match where their related items appear on the Taskbar by default.
Also, phones don't run Windows anymore.
No, but plenty of tablets/convertibles/touchscreen laptops/touchscreen monitors/touchpads/etc. do. I'm in favor of supporting these input methods that fit their capabilities and form factors. I just don't see why they couldn't do so in a way that keeps old features like moving the Taskbar to the sides.
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I just don't see why they couldn't do so in a way that keeps old features like moving the taskbar to the sides.
They could they just didn't see it as important as
messing with other thingsother features.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
swipe gestures
Swipe your data and then display indecent gestures if you object.
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The two updates contain identical bug fixes and improvements because Windows 11 is apparently built on top of Windows 10.
no Shit, there I was, realizing reality...
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In its Update Connectivity data, Microsoft warned that the computers should have a stable internet connection for a minimum of two hours of pre-update and six hours of post-update time. This ensures that a Windows Update can be successfully delivered to the device and it also applies to Windows 10.
“What we found is that devices that don’t meet a certain amount of connected time are very unlikely to successfully update,” Microsoft said.
Are they insane?!
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@topspin That sounded so insane, I overcame and briefly googled for it.
Found this:
Apparently they've been monitoring Windows update data / installation success and found the hour things in the data. Article sounds a bit clueless though. Somebody looked at the data and jumped to the conclusion in the article - i.e., keep your machine online for this many hours and things will magically work more betterer - instead of spending time thinking or undstanding the data. Like, isn't MS the author of the Windows update system?
Edit: Forgot - What I really was looking for was why they recommended the six hour post-update connectivity. Like, whyTF does that matter? No such insights in that article.
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@cvi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin That sounded so insane, I overcame and briefly googled for it.
Found this:
Apparently they've been monitoring Windows update data / installation success and found the hour things in the data. Article sounds a bit clueless though. Somebody looked at the data and jumped to the conclusion in the article - i.e., keep your machine online for this many hours and things will magically work more betterer - instead of spending time thinking or undstanding the data. Like, isn't MS the author of the Windows update system?
Edit: Forgot - What I really was looking for was why they recommended the six hour post-update connectivity. Like, whyTF does that matter? No such insights in that article.
All their spy ware ends up in a borked state of it can't connect after an update?
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Maybe I'm misinterpreting this, but... machines which spent less time connected have less chance of seeing there are updates.
Am I the only one who schedules Windows updates to the time of night during which I know the computer will be off precisely so that it doesn't reboot without my knowledge?
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting this, but... machines which spent less time connected have less chance of seeing there are updates.
Am I the only one who schedules Windows updates to the time of night during which I know the computer will be off precisely so that it doesn't reboot without my knowledge?
I've done that as well. And my computer starts up at night to install updates and reboot. Fine, i sort of told it to. But it also updates and reboots during the day a few times a year.
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I've said it before and will say it again: You guys are having very weird Windows installations. I've never had my PC reboot and install updates without my explicit consent.
And none of the 200+ PCs at my school running Win10 did that either.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I've said it before and will say it again: You guys are having very weird Windows installations. I've never had my PC reboot and install updates without my explicit consent.
And none of the 200+ PCs at my school running Win10 did that either.
Of course it's weird. It's Windows.
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@Rhywden
It’s like Chrome. After you defer updates beyond the point of gross negligence, Micro$oft eventually takes matters into its own hands
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting this, but... machines which spent less time connected have less chance of seeing there are updates.
Yes, this is especially problematic for those six hours after an update.
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@cvi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Yes, this is especially problematic for those six hours after an update.
The original article misquotes Microsoft.
Microsoft warned that the computers should have a stable internet connection for a minimum of two hours of pre-update and six hours of post-update time.
Specifically, data shows that devices need a minimum of two continuous connected hours, and six total connected hours after an update is released to reliably update. This allows for a successful download and background installations that are able to restart or resume once a device is active and connected.
It's not six hours after updating, it's six total hours to install the update.
Six hours total still seems like a long time considering mine usually downloads in minutes but then my internet is way faster than average.
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Let's see how accurate the estimate is...
18:07
edit:
Done by 18:10.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Specifically, data shows that devices need a minimum of two continuous connected hours, and six total connected hours after an update is released to reliably update
It's not six hours after updating, it's six total hours to install the update.Huh. Careful reading of the articles. That's very underhanded of you.
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@Rhywden said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I've said it before and will say it again: You guys are having very weird Windows installations. I've never had my PC reboot and install updates without my explicit consent.
And none of the 200+ PCs at my school running Win10 did that either.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
In its Update Connectivity data, Microsoft warned that the computers should have a stable internet connection for a minimum of two hours of pre-update and six hours of post-update time. This ensures that a Windows Update can be successfully delivered to the device and it also applies to Windows 10.
“What we found is that devices that don’t meet a certain amount of connected time are very unlikely to successfully update,” Microsoft said.
Are they insane?!
Well, I'm fucked. My router likes to randomly reboot. A lot.
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Addresses an issue in which certain Point of Sale terminals experience occasional OS startup delays during restart of up to 40 minutes.
It's okay, I'm sure that won't annoy the cashier and the customers one bit.
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Ever wanted to watch a collection of cringy design videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7y1S3wIysg&list=PLl7DqJ8lmbVUtzVwSks77plRXQifgh19y
They're all pretty short, but they sure pack a punch of .
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@Parody Well, it's alright. But really it does explain the way it went: design must be designed to be touchable and colorful, and there should be simplicity and light and whatnot (in the design that we designed).
At no point concepts like functional or consistent or professional are mentioned. That's the take-away: it's made to impress toddlers, and not to address any complaints whatsoever people have accrued over the years.
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trying to get rid of clutter
needs to be calm and cleanThey all say sitting in a huge room with empty shelves.
Reminds me of the doesn’t spark joy Family Guy episode:
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To be fair: after the Windows 10 designers decided that “square everything, zero contrast, zero colors” was the new great design, “we’re doing the opposite” might just be designer wankery, but actually having focused windows look noticeably different again is an improvement.
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Ever wanted to watch a collection of cringy design videos?
No.
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@Applied-Mediocrity sometimes management needs a break and listens to idiots for awhile.
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Ever wanted to watch a collection of cringy design videos?
I like having some faces to put against my murder fantasies.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
To be fair: after the Windows 10 designers decided that “square everything, zero contrast, zero colors” was the new great design, “we’re doing the opposite” might just be designer wankery, but actually having focused windows look noticeably different again is an improvement.
It's the Harkonnen theory of versioning and I don't hate them any less for fixing a bit of the mess they made in the first place.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Harkonnen theory
Tbf the heartplug is an improvement
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@Gribnit thanks David Lynch!
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit thanks David Byrne!
"If you always wear the same clothes, people will remember you better."
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@Gribnit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit thanks David Byrne!
"If you always wear the same clothes, people will remember you better."
status: pondering if I should Commission new clothes...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit thanks David Byrne!
"If you always wear the same clothes, people will remember you better."
status: pondering if I should Commission new clothes...
Keep in mind if you do, I have recently come into a possession of a most miraculous fabric...
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit thanks David Lynch!
I have no idea what the previous 3 posts mean, but I can guess the first one from context and assume this one is a complaint about @Gribnit’s, basically saying “great performance, but nobody understands what you mean.”
Which leaves me both confused and yet amused.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit thanks David Lynch!
I have no idea what the previous 3 posts mean, but I can guess the first one from context and assume this one is a complaint about @Gribnit’s, basically saying “great performance, but nobody understands what you mean.”
Which leaves me both confused and yet amused.
My Harkonnen comment was about Dune. The Baron puts in one nephew, "The Beast" to torture the planet, then was to put in his other nephew who would lighten the yoke on the planet and be their savior because he was so much better in comparison.
@Gribnit mentioned a detail that was added to the movie to make the Baron more disgusting. David Lynch wrote the screenplay for the movie.
Microsoft Designers deserve to live under Harkonnen rule.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gribnit thanks David Lynch!
I have no idea what the previous 3 posts mean, but I can guess the first one from context and assume this one is a complaint about @Gribnit’s, basically saying “great performance, but nobody understands what you mean.”
Which leaves me both confused and yet amused.
My Harkonnen comment was about Dune. The Baron puts in one nephew, "The Beast" to torture the planet, then was to put in his other nephew who would lighten the yoke on the planet and be their savior because he was so much better in comparison.
I figured something like that.
@Gribnit mentioned a detail that was added to the movie to make the Baron more disgusting. David Lynch wrote the screenplay for the movie.
Ah, I see. That makes too much sense.
It was funnier in my head to have David Lynch as a general icon of “what the fuck do these movies mean?”, c.f. Mulholland Drive.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Designers deserve to live
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@HardwareGeek UNDER HARKONNEN RULE.
They'll yearn for death.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
They'll yearn for death.
Yeah, but maybe they manage to push out an UI update while doing that. Too much of a risk.
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@cvi fair enough.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I assume it’s infinitely more of a hot mess these days.
Every new version of Windows is more of a hot mess
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
To be fair: after the Windows
108 designers decided that “square everything, zero contrast, zero colors” was the new great design, “we’re doing the opposite” might just be designer wankery, but actually having focused windows look noticeably different again is an improvement.FTFY. I think the solid colors/square corners/monochrome icons were supposed to help battery life, but that could just be me coming up with a justification. Either way, 8 and 11 share the "let's take something designed for smaller touchscreens and cram it on the desktop" mentality.
There's still plenty of programs that don't look that different when focused, and they're usually Microsoft ones that abandoned showing the system color on the title bar.
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
There's still plenty of programs that don't look that different when focused, and they're usually Microsoft ones that abandoned showing the system color on the title bar.
I thought it was pretty funny that while the guy was talking about how focused windows get some color, and were showing one that did, they brought up something that didn't.
Fucking hell, they can't even fake it long enough in their own damn video.
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@boomzilla My favorite is the redone Calculator, where the blur effect makes it hard to read unless it's in the background (which disables the blur effect for speed/power savings).
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@Parody It was a badly calculated move.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
they brought up something that didn't.
which is PowerPoint.
The company behind PowerPoint probably didn't have time to adapt their app to the new design