How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?
-
This should be easy, but I'm just missing something: how do I get two routers to broadcast the same network name, with the same password and authentication method, and not stomp on each others' feet? My two routers are on the same ethernet network, and one is upstream of the other. My current solution is just to have the two routers broadcast two different networks.
I might be able to fix this by just using one router at the centroid of the house, but there aren't any convenient plugs there. So I have two routers at the opposite ends of the hosue (on wildly different firmware - one of them is using DD-WRT, the other is an ASUS RT-AC52U with the stock firmware.).
I tried setting up the two routers on the same network name, same password, same authentication method, but then my smart TV decided that it couldn't possibly connect to a network. (And my other devices weren't great at connecting, either.) They're interfering more than I'd expect - I figured that one of the routers would have a stronger signal to any given point.
I've put up with this for a few years now, but now I have a young daughter with a tablet, and I don't want to play IT and switch networks every time she runs from one end of the house to the other while trying to watch videos.
-
If you want to do this, what you need is for the second router to be a special kind of router that's designed as a signal repeater.
-
I tried it shortly after getting my second router, just by setting the SSID and passwords to the same thing. It worked ok, except for when it didn't and my device stayed connected to the wrong one. In that case, there was nothing I could do to quickly fix it. So now I have two different names for my upstairs and downstairs routers, and I can control which one each device is connected to.
-
@PotatoEngineer
This should just work, as long as one of the routers is configured as an access point (and not a gateway router), and preferably connected to the other router by Ethernet cable.Last I knew, DD-WRT had out of the box support for AP mode, so I would be inclined to make that the remote unit. Just make sure the two routers have different IP addresses (in the same subnet) and are broadcasting the same SSID and WPA settings on different channels (for both bands), and Robert should be your mother’s brother.
If you want to post your configuration I can try to give more specific advice.
-
@izzion said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
on different channels (for both bands),
Don't modern routers/APs have a setting where they automatically choose and periodically switch to the least congested band?
-
@Mason_Wheeler said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
If you want to do this, what you need is for the second router to be a special kind of router that's designed as a signal repeater.
Not necessarily. A signal repeater is gonna use a lot more bandwidth and cause more interference than a properly set-up dual-AP setup (mostly because your main router has to act as the uplink for the secondary router in addition to its regular WiFi duties), plus you're using 2-3x the channel bandwidth.
-
You need to tell our of them to be "just a dumb AP" and turn off its DHCP server and routing. This is more easily done on the DD-WRT unit. Essentially, make the secondary units have a static IP and let any clients connecting to it receive their IP from the main router. I can screenshot what this looks like a bit later if you need.
The only major problem with this setup is that clients tend to sticky themselves to the first strongest one, and won't let go even if a stronger access point is nearby. This is mostly solved with mesh-capable APs, but is more tricky to set up since you have differing hardware
-
@Rhywden said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@izzion said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
on different channels (for both bands),
Don't modern routers/APs have a setting where they automatically choose and periodically switch to the least congested band?
Yes, and if you live in the middle of nowhere the setting will work. In a city environment where your APs can also hear your neighbors, I wouldn’t rely on it.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The only major problem with this setup is that clients tend to sticky themselves to the first strongest one, and won't let go even if a stronger access point is nearby. This is mostly solved with mesh-capable APs, but is more tricky to set up since you have differing hardware
I believe there's a way to tell at least some APs to do hand-off between each other so that clients can move between them. This is what's used in enterprise deployments. (This might be what you're talking about.) I've never seen good instructions on how to enable it in a domestic setting; here, I just use two networks with different SSIDs.
-
@dkf said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
This is what's used in enterprise deployments. (This might be what you're talking about.)
Basically. It's still flaky, as in the end it's the client device that decides who it wants to talk to. It can be described best as "Please go away?"
Unlike with cell towers, which can literally tell the client modems "Pretend I've got a SNR of X.
"...Someone some time ago wrote a script for dd-wrt to kick off clients with an apparently-bad SNR, which is almost-kinda the same:
-
Systems that are designed for this have active communication between the AP to handle things like load balance, single leveling. Those work great but cost $$$$. Low cost (typical home) have never worked well for me in this configuration.
-
@dkf said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The only major problem with this setup is that clients tend to sticky themselves to the first strongest one, and won't let go even if a stronger access point is nearby. This is mostly solved with mesh-capable APs, but is more tricky to set up since you have differing hardware
I believe there's a way to tell at least some APs to do hand-off between each other so that clients can move between them.
It's called WDS (Wired Distribution System, IIRC), and yes, I've seen it supported, but rarely in consumer equipment.
-
@LaoC said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@dkf said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The only major problem with this setup is that clients tend to sticky themselves to the first strongest one, and won't let go even if a stronger access point is nearby. This is mostly solved with mesh-capable APs, but is more tricky to set up since you have differing hardware
I believe there's a way to tell at least some APs to do hand-off between each other so that clients can move between them.
It's called WDS (Wired Distribution System, IIRC), and yes, I've seen it supported, but rarely in consumer equipment.
Exactly this, and it is also supported by DD-WRT, but almost requires that at the very minimum your APs have the same wireless chipset.
Edit: Wait, this one's help screen is a little different than I remember. The help text seems to indicate it's more for acting as a client bridge.
whatever....
Edit edit: More reading if you're so inclined.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@LaoC said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@dkf said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The only major problem with this setup is that clients tend to sticky themselves to the first strongest one, and won't let go even if a stronger access point is nearby. This is mostly solved with mesh-capable APs, but is more tricky to set up since you have differing hardware
I believe there's a way to tell at least some APs to do hand-off between each other so that clients can move between them.
It's called WDS (Wired Distribution System, IIRC), and yes, I've seen it supported, but rarely in consumer equipment.
Exactly this, and it is also supported by DD-WRT, but almost requires that at the very minimum your APs have the same wireless chipset.
Edit: Wait, this one's help screen is a little different than I remember. The help text seems to indicate it's more for acting as a client bridge.
whatever....
Edit edit: More reading if you're so inclined.
You're right, I got that mixed up: the wired version is only "DS" and the W is for wireless.
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
the same network name, with the same password and authentication method, and not stomp on each others' feet? My two routers are on the same ethernet network, and one is upstream of the other. My current solution is just to have the two routers broadcast two different networks.
I might be able to fix this by just using one router at the centroid of the house, but there aren't any convenient plugs there. So I have two routers at the opposite ends of the hosue (on wildly different firmware - one of them is using DD-WRT, the other is an ASUS RT-AC52U with the stock firmware.).
I tried setting up the two routers on the same network name, same password, same authentication method, but then my smart TV decided that it couldn't possibly connect to a network. (And my other devices weren't great at connecting, either.) They're interfering more than I'd expect - I figured that one of the routers would have a stronger signal to any given point.
I've put up with this for a few years now, but now I have a young daughter with a tablet, and I don't want to play IT and switch networks every time she runs from one end of the house to the other while trying to watch videos.This wasn't straight-forward for a long time, at least in the consumer space.
But you do have a few options now:
Ubiquiti Unifi access points are designed to all share a single configuration, with hand-off between access points, etc. There are some other options in this space, like Meraki, I believe. I've only used Unifi. I have three in my house right now, and a controller running on a VM.
You could go "mesh", but I prefer running wire to at least most of my access points. Ubiquiti offers Unifi-compatible mesh now, so I might get one for the living room.
Wireless repeaters -- all of the disadvantages of mesh with few of the advantages. Not worth it.
Ubiquiti isn't even that expensive. You can get the entry level access point at about $80, or get into faster speeds than you need for $150 or so each. A cloud key might be worth if i you don't want to run a virtual machine for it.
-
@izzion said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
Last I knew, DD-WRT had out of the box support for AP mode, so I would be inclined to make that the remote unit. Just make sure the two routers have different IP addresses (in the same subnet) and are broadcasting the same SSID and WPA settings on different channels (for both bands), and Robert should be your mother’s brother.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what I tried: The RT-AC52U router connected to the cable modem at 192.168.1.2, the DD-WRT downstream at 192.168.1.1, same SSID, same WPA settings. The one thing I didn't try was to force them to different channels - they were both set to "auto," and I'm an optimistic fool who thinks that will make everything work out fine. I'm in a suburb of single-family houses, so there's WiFi all over the place, but not the kind of density you might find in an apartment complex.
I went through this song and dance a few years ago, trying a variety of settings to make one of them an access point, but I didn't follow any of the neat steps on this DD-WRT Access Point Guide, so maybe it's time to try that again.
And my newer ASUS RT-AC52U definitely has an Access Point mode (which I tried!), but maybe it's time to do that again.
My house is wired for Ethernet; I have a port in almost every room in the house.
-
@PotatoEngineer
It definitely needs to be in AP mode, as that disables the DHCP server, the NAT tables, and makes the Wireless operate as a "dumb Ethernet bridge" to the other Ethernet ports without any intelligence that can get in the way.Contrary to most of the other testimonials in this thread, I've never really had problem with Windows or iDevices auto-roaming between different APs. I don't have experience with Android one way or the other to speak to. At work we have 9 Merakis covering a 4 floor ~3000 sq ft per floor building with seamless roaming, without using the Meraki features to "force" clients onto an optimal AP, just letting Windows (or MacOS) pick as needed.
That said, I would expect some slow-to-swap roaming if you have both APs relatively close together (overlapping a lot of their strong signal coverage zones), and if they both pick the same channel they'll cross-interfere with each other and performance on both will generally suck. In most business multi-AP deployments, you intentionally zone your APs on opposite sides of firewalls... in residential where you don't really have that to work with, I'd spread them on opposite ends of the building (yes, to the extreme outside wall as much as sensible) and on different floors if possible.
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The RT-AC52U router connected to the cable modem at 192.168.1.2, the DD-WRT downstream at 192.168.1.1
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
but I didn't follow any of the neat steps on this DD-WRT Access Point Guide, so maybe it's time to try that again.
You literally need to follow only three steps of that guide. I'll copy them below:
- Disable DHCP and set the wireless channel different from the other router(s)
- Set the IP address to 192.168.1.2 (or any IP outside the gateway DHCP range that does not collide with the gateway nor any other static devices)
- Connect a LAN port from the Access Point to a LAN port on the primary router
All the rest is fluf to be really certain the routers in Dumb AP mode don't try to interfere.
-
@Mason_Wheeler said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
If you want to do this, what you need is for the second router to be a special kind of router that's designed as a signal repeater.
Or a mesh router.
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
My house is wired for Ethernet; I have a port in almost every room in the house.
PFFFFF just get Unifi. Roaming isn't easy to set up and there are a bunch of standards and not all chipsets support them all.
The single biggest reason not to go with Unifi is having to put down cable around the house. Otherwise it's a total no brainer.
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
My house is wired for Ethernet
So is mine. The living room has both the jack for the broadband modem and an Ethernet jack, and one bedroom has a bunch of Ethernet jacks (not labeled to indicate where the other end is). Unfortunately, the Ethernet jack is on the opposite side of the living room from the broadband modem jack.
-
@Captain said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The single biggest reason not to go with Unifi is having to put down cable around the house.
They still don't have a WiFi 6 solution. If I'm going to spend $$$ on wireless equipment I want to future-proof it as much as possible.
@HardwareGeek said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
The living room has both the jack for the broadband modem and an Ethernet jack, and one bedroom has a bunch of Ethernet jacks (not labeled to indicate where the other end is).
That's what toners are for.
-
@Unperverted-Vixen said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
That's what toners are for.
Do you know how much HP charges for those?!?
-
@izzion said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@Unperverted-Vixen said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
That's what toners are for.
Do you know how much HP charges for those?!?
About $112 for my model. It's a semi-annual expense.
-
So I untangled my WiFi by disabling the DHCP on one of the routers. My daughter's tablet no longer needs to switch networks every time she takes the stairs. It's been nice. Only one WiFi network in the house now.
Unfortunately, the general quality of the WiFi has gotten a bit worse: my various devices occasionally get into a "connection is terrible, but signal strength is great" state. (Even the non-moving devices, like my smart TV, hit this.) I'm assuming that this means they're badly-connected to the more-distant router.
Even worse, Ubiquiti has stopped offering their cheapest access point. I can pay $130 for a WiFi extender, or $180 for each access point. I am sad.
(I did find the "kill connections for low signal quality" option in one of my routers, so that's an improvement. Now I just need to do the disconnect-and-hard-reset dance for the other router, because LastPass doesn't save passwords well when you're not connected to Ye Cloude, and it's lost the password to my other router.)
-
@PotatoEngineer This one is still for sale..
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
Even worse, Ubiquiti has stopped offering their cheapest access point.
That’s good news, hopefully that means they’ll have Wi-fi 6 models so I can finally build a network out.
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
disabling the DHCP on one of the routers.
also, oh, yeah, that'll do it. Devices don't like being on the same (physical) network and having to get a new IP. Usually, they'll assume they don't have to, IME, and that basically breaks everything.
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
So I untangled my WiFi by disabling the DHCP on one of the routers.
You had two of them going on? That's dangerous, friend!I choose to believe you misspoke, because most any reality in which that is true means wtfs were being ping pong'd around a bit more...
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
So I untangled my WiFi by disabling the DHCP on one of the routers.
You had two of them going on? That's dangerous, friend!I choose to believe you misspoke, because most any reality in which that is true means wtfs were being ping pong'd around a bit more...
That's a very generous assumption you have made, and I appreciate the benefit of the doubt that you have extended to me. Unfortunately, your faith in humanity is misplaced this time.
To be slightly more precise: I previously had two separate networks (one called "NETWORK_NAME Upstairs"), because having two routers with DHCP enabled with the same WiFi network "just didn't work for some reason." (Reason: I IZ DUM.) I've read stories of rogue routers and extra DHCP before, but I didn't put two and two together when I was experimenting with "two routers broadcasting the same SSID".
Now, I have two routers, a single SSID, and DHCP enabled on only one router, and some minor connection problems when a device almost leaves the range of one of the routers. I'll buy from that Amazon listing real quick, because it looks like it'll be the last chance to get a consumer-priced access point from what is supposedly a good WiFi company. (I haven't used Ubiquti yet, but this thread is singing its praises!)
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
I haven't used Ubiquti yet, but this thread is singing its praises!
Worth noting, you will also need a UniFi Security Gateway (the router) and either a UniFi Controller or something like a Pi that can pretend to be one. Or you can host the Controller software on another PC, but dedicated network hardware is probably better.
-
@sloosecannon said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
Worth noting, you will also need a UniFi Security Gateway (the router) and either a UniFi Controller or something like a Pi that can pretend to be one. Or you can host the Controller software on another PC, but dedicated network hardware is probably better.
Welp, my two Ubiquiti Unifi Ap-AC LRs came in today, and I'm happy; wifi seems much more reliable so far, and I think the handoff between those access points is much better than the handoff I had between my two routers. (I spent the extra $20 each to get the long-range version.) I don't need a dedicated controller; I ran the controller software on my main PC to get things set up, but then I turned it off. I'm missing out on some analytics, and I can't do the guest-ticket thing, but the access points do their access point thing just fine without the security gateway (I have a regular router) and the controller.
-
-
@PotatoEngineer said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
@sloosecannon said in How do I get two routers to broadcast the same Wifi network?:
Worth noting, you will also need a UniFi Security Gateway (the router) and either a UniFi Controller or something like a Pi that can pretend to be one. Or you can host the Controller software on another PC, but dedicated network hardware is probably better.
Welp, my two Ubiquiti Unifi Ap-AC LRs came in today, and I'm happy; wifi seems much more reliable so far, and I think the handoff between those access points is much better than the handoff I had between my two routers. (I spent the extra $20 each to get the long-range version.) I don't need a dedicated controller; I ran the controller software on my main PC to get things set up, but then I turned it off. I'm missing out on some analytics, and I can't do the guest-ticket thing, but the access points do their access point thing just fine without the security gateway (I have a regular router) and the controller.
Huh. Never thought to run just the APs without a security gateway. Glad to hear it fixed your problem though!
Amazon.com
