Do you understand ping?
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An IPv4 address consists of 4 bytes, typically written as decimal numbers separated with dots inbetween. Ever filled up a one-digit number with leading zeros to 3 digits? Why should that make a difference?
Well, it does:
You see:
a ping 192.168.000.017 contacts 192.168.0.15 instead, but ping 192.168.0.17 works as expected.An ipconfig / flushdns
does not help either.Why?
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@BernieTheBernie The leading zero indicates you want the number to be parsed as octal. Chances are
018and019give errors.0xfwill work as well.
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@PleegWat For shits and giggles, you could also try
ping 0xc0a80011orping 3232235537
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It just parses that to the same byte string then?
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@JBert said in Do you understand ping?:
It just parses that to the same byte string then?
Yes. And then there's intermediate forms, like
192.168.17where the last component is a 16-bit number.
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@PleegWat said in Do you understand ping?:
The leading zero indicates you want the number to be parsed as octal.
Iâve never really understood this convention, because it seems to break things (or at least expectations) about as often as itâs useful â mainly if, like @BernieTheBernie, youâre padding decimal numbers with zeroes for any reason. The various conventions for hexadecimal numbers at least use characters that arenât part of the normal number set
0âFto show youâre not dealing with a decimal number.
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@Gurth Yeah,
0oas an octal prefix would be more consistent with the others (including0bfor binary) and avoid certain problems. My guess is octal is the oldest of the lot, but I never investigated.
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This is probably the first time I've seen an IPv4 address with a 000 byte.
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@Zecc Also writing "000 byte" feels weird, but there you go.
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Personally, I'm more intrigued by STRG-C.
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@GÄ ska The rest of the message being in what looks like German, I'm not sure it is wise for a Pole to ask for more information about it. And I'm saying that as a French.
(edit: as for your question, I'm guessing this is "CTRL-C" in German)
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@Zecc said in Do you understand ping?:
This is probably the first time I've seen an IPv4 address with a 000 byte.
You've not seen 127.0.0.1 before?
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@dkf said in Do you understand ping?:
@Zecc said in Do you understand ping?:
This is probably the first time I've seen an IPv4 address with a 000 byte.
You've not seen 127.0.0.1 before?
What's so out-of-order about that?
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@dkf said in Do you understand ping?:
@Zecc said in Do you understand ping?:
This is probably the first time I've seen an IPv4 address with a 000 byte.
You've not seen 127.0.0.1 before?
You bring a good point.
Somehow I wasn't considering that a "real" IP address.
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@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
Personally, I'm more intrigued by STRG-C.
The German name for the Ctrl key is Strg, for Steuerungstaste:
Interesting trivia from that article:
Mitunter wird die Taste in Deutschland fälschlicherweise als âStringâ-, âStrongâ- oder sogar âStrangeâ-Taste bezeichnet, häufiger jedoch werden die einzelnen Buchstaben âS-t-r-gâ anstelle des Wortes âSteuerungâ ausgesprochen.
That is: Occasionally in Germany the key is erroneously called the âStringâ-, âStrongâ- or even âStrangeâ-key, but more common is to pronounce the separate letters âS-t-r-gâ instead of the word âSteuerungâ.
Which reminds me of an old friend of mine, who once talked about pressing [sÉtrl dÉl Élt]. When asked, âWhat?â he repeated that utterance, and only then did the rest of us clue in that he was pronouncing what he read on the keys CtrlAltDel.
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@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
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@PleegWat said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth Yeah,
0oas an octal prefix would be more consistent with the others (including0bfor binary) and avoid certain problems. My guess is octal is the oldest of the lot, but I never investigated.Back in the day (and I was there)...resources were expensive, a single character would do, and "0" [zero] invokes "O" [The capital letter...
When working with computers invariably meant working with octal, the mnemonic was quite useful.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Do you understand ping?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
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@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Do you understand ping?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
I pronounce it "Quit"
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@TheCPUWizard said in Do you understand ping?:
@PleegWat said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth Yeah,
0oas an octal prefix would be more consistent with the others (including0bfor binary) and avoid certain problems. My guess is octal is the oldest of the lot, but I never investigated.Back in the day (and I was there)...resources were expensive, a single character would do, and "0" [zero] invokes "O" [The capital letter...
When working with computers invariably meant working with octal, the mnemonic was quite useful.
Still doesnât explain why itâs not
o: o10 is much more obviously meant to not be decimal than 010.Also something I thought of when I was trying to fall asleep: better hope nobody ever made an address book program that stores phone numbers in an int, âbecause theyâre numbers, right?â. User enters
(076) 5432123, program strips the non-numerical characters to store it as0765432123and then displays it as131478611.
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@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
Still doesnât explain why itâs not o: o10 is much more obviously meant to not be decimal than 010.
It was probably a hack from very early in C or even predated it and was carried over. Computers of that era were far more octal oriented than later systems, when hexadecimal became far more useful (as the size of basic addressable units was expanded from 6 bits to 8).
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@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
o10 is much more obviously meant to not be decimal than 010
Undeclared variable o10.
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@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
I refuse! (And I don't think I've heard anyone I work with pronounce it that way either) "cutie" all the way!
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@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
Still doesnât explain why itâs not o: o10 is much more obviously meant to not be decimal than 010.
Systems generally didn't support lower-case at the time.
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@Unperverted-Vixen The 1965 version of ASCII did, so for the kinds of systems that C was used on, lowercase characters would have been available. In any case,
O(the letter) would work just as well, because in the typefaces used on machines (computers, terminals, printers, etc.) back then the difference betweenOand0would usually be very obvious.
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@Zecc said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
o10 is much more obviously meant to not be decimal than 010
Undeclared variable o10.
0o10, then. Against which the argument is probably that it uses more memory.
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@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Do you understand ping?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
Rule 1 of naming things. If you have to devote part of your documentation to trying to police pronunciation of the product, it's got a shit name.
Filed under: niggynix? Nugnix? Fuck it, I'll use Apache
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@Jaloopa said in Do you understand ping?:
niggynix? Nugnix? Fuck it, I'll use Apache
âHow do I pronounce that anyway? French way like A-pash?â
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@dkf good point. Eye Eye Ess it is
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@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Do you understand ping?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
Of course itâs âcutieâ. I care about the official docs as much as about the guy who invented the âjraphics interchange format.â
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@TheCPUWizard said in Do you understand ping?:
When working with computers invariably meant working with octal, the mnemonic was quite useful.
But why? At least hex makes sense, octal never made sense. (And no, chmod is no valid excuse)
It doesnât even align to bytes, you need 3 bytes for that.EDIT: guess thatâs been answered:
@dkf said in Do you understand ping?:
as the size of basic addressable units was expanded from 6 bits to 8
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@dkf said in Do you understand ping?:
âHow do I pronounce that anyway? French way like A-pash?â
ApachĂŠ.
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@topspin said in Do you understand ping?:
@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Do you understand ping?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
Of course itâs âcutieâ. I care about the official docs as much as about the guy who invented the âjraphics interchange format.â
OS Ecks.
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@Zecc said in Do you understand ping?:
@topspin said in Do you understand ping?:
@GÄ ska said in Do you understand ping?:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Do you understand ping?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@Gurth said in Do you understand ping?:
sÉtrl
I once had a person pronounce it "sir-troll". No idea where they got that first r, probably from sherbet factory though.
No weirder than the guy I once knew who would talk about using "squirrel" to query databases...
Speaking of acronyms - I wonder how many people actually pronounce Qt as "cute" like the official docs say. I've only ever heard "cutie".
Of course itâs âcutieâ. I care about the official docs as much as about the guy who invented the âjraphics interchange format.â
OS Ecks.
Is there anyone who didnât call it that?
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Nugget.
uhZOOr.
Or uhJOOr.
But not AJur.
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@topspin - Most early computers did not have memory sizes that were a multiple of 8 bits. 12, 18, 36, 38 were common and I worked on all of them).
There was also the fact that and adding machine could be adapted as a printer
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@TheCPUWizard said in Do you understand ping?:
Most early computers did not have memory sizes that were a multiple of 8 bits.
I own a copy of Janeâs Weapon Systems 1969â70 which includes a chapter titled Computers & Data Processing Equipment. The specifications are often interesting, but equally often, hard to make sense of as someone used to modern systems. Sometimes they specify memory size in bits or bytes, in most as word length and number of words, and in some cases even as number of words only without any indication how big a word is.
On a quick look at word length, I see 24 bits, 24 digits (not indicated which kind), 16 bits, 20 binary digits (so: bits), 32 bits, 23 bits plus sign. None of the descriptions or specs seem to refer to bytes at all, let alone talk about the size of a byte on any particular machine.
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@Gurth Interesting! Things were already starting to settle out into multiples of 8 bits by that point I see; that's earlier than I thought.
I guess it makes sense though; 6 bits (26=64 possible characters) isn't really enough to express everything you need for plain text in American English (not once you support lower case, needed to match contemporary typewriters) since by the time you have 2Ă26 letters and 10 digits you already have 62 characters before any punctuation, even spaces. 7 bits would have worked, but who wants to work in sevens when there's a nice power of two next door?
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@dkf said in Do you understand ping?:
guess it makes sense though; 6 bits (26=64 possible characters) isn't really enough
Amazing the number of programs that were written using Rad-50
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And for those who still do not understand Ping:
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@Gurth oh sex?
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@TheCPUWizard why would someone name a video series for children "read to me daddy"
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@ben_lubar said in Do you understand ping?:
@TheCPUWizard why would someone name a video series for children "read to me daddy"
What would you have called it?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Do you understand ping?:
@ben_lubar said in Do you understand ping?:
@TheCPUWizard why would someone name a video series for children "read to me daddy"
What would you have called it?
Steuerungstaste â Wikipedia
