Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications
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@error said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
does "I tapped into fierce compassion" mean?
Loose translation: "Hey everyone, look at how virtuous my signals are!"
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@error said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
does "I tapped into fierce compassion" mean?
You’re the native speaker, don’t look at me.
Native? We don't speak that language here! (But we do mock it)
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@Cabbage said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
how difficult it is to change a community built on a foundation of toxicity
is how everyone has been, since in the very first place, talking about the problems in SO as if the rep whore deal happens spontaneously for some hypothetical "toxicity" by some "sociopath bro stereotype" "trolls" that needs to be witch-hunted while they have nothing to do with the problem itself.
No, it has always been there, and they are responsible for it. They have been rep whoring since the very beginning, stemmed from 's belief of performing community regulation entirely through gamification, and actually making the system run this way. Did nobody remember the whole "stick 'for programmers' on every question to make it relevant to the site" meta which culminated to "programming on a boat", the only one question perma-deleted from the site? And that was back in 2009. Rep whores were already all over the place since that period. Everyone just chose to willfully close an eye about it.
It has nothing to do with the arbitrary "toxicity" deal. In fact lots of users are more concerned about continuing rep whoring than debating who is wrong, or making any changes to CoCs, or anything . Steering the discussion to the former is really the idea of SE company who has the bright idea of thinking all of these are caused by hypothetical "nasty" people that isn't "being nice". (And if you think about it, they starting the "be nice" policy after left the company at 2012. I think they might have fundamental ideological differences on this issue.) No, really what you need is to shoot in the face and remove a system that is fundamentally rep whore friendly.
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@error said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
does "I tapped into fierce compassion" mean?
You’re the native speaker, don’t look at me.
Does Google have a translator for SJW English?
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@HardwareGeek said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Does Google have a translator for SJW English?
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So after 12 days of getting completely lambasted and pwned every which way by every side of the community, SE went and deleted the pronouns question before it could hit -2000, and replaced it with something new that says all the same stuff but in a more reasonable tone of voice. Big Brother would be proud.
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I suppose you mean this?
From the answers and comments, it looks like it's as effective as dumping a bucket of water on a forest fire.
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@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
I suppose you mean this?
No, I mean this one:
It's exactly what I said: a new post that says all the same stuff but in a more reasonable tone of voice. And given that it's currently not being downvoted to oblivion the way the last one was, the trick seems to be working.
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@Mason_Wheeler
Just register a few reddit throwaway accounts via a VPN and brigade it
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
It's exactly what I said: a new post that says all the same stuff but in a more reasonable tone of voice.
There's something pretty ironic: people on Meta have complained that SE (the company) wasn't listening to them, but many of the new "questions" of their new FAQ are exactly the objections that were raised against the previous CoC. So SE has listened ; it's just that their response is "don't like the new rules? Too bad, sucker."
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
And given that it's currently not being downvoted to oblivion the way the last one was, the trick seems to be working.
Maybe the pronoun issue is losing steam, but people seem to still be pointing out the other wrong things SE did.
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@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
It's exactly what I said: a new post that says all the same stuff but in a more reasonable tone of voice.
There's something pretty ironic: people on Meta have complained that SE (the company) wasn't listening to them, but many of the new "questions" of their new FAQ are exactly the objections that were raised against the previous CoC. So SE has listened ; it's just that their response is "don't like the new rules? Too bad, sucker."
The phrase "for a sufficiently low value of 'listen'" comes to mind. Also, the term "advice-resistant."
Also, the term "Orwellian" that Shog9 seemed to think was so trite when I used it. Now they're literally rewriting history, deleting the embarrassing context and making it look like all these possible objections they're addressing here come from them and not from the other post.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
literally rewriting history,
I wonder if there's a https://www.removeddit.com/ but for SE?
That would be interesting...
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
It's exactly what I said: a new post that says all the same stuff but in a more reasonable tone of voice. And given that it's currently not being downvoted to oblivion the way the last one was, the trick seems to be working.
The new Code of Conduct is simple and seems reasonable. The new FAQs also don't strike me as unreasonable.
Especially, they no longer contain crazy contradictions and don't force you to use pronouns at all. Gender-neutral language is allowed and advised.CoC:
No name-calling or personal attacks.
No bigotry.
No harrassment.FAQs:
4. I find it really distressing to use pronouns in a way I think is wrong. Is there really no alternative?
You can often avoid using pronouns altogether.1. Does this mean that I will be in trouble if I ever get someone's pronouns wrong?
No. It's fine to make an honest mistake. But once you are directly informed of what someone wants, please act accordingly.6. What if someone wants some nonstandard pronouns that I don't even know how to use?
Then just do your best. Again, honest mistakes are fine.7. Am I obligated to find opportunities to use pronouns?
Not at all!11. Do I need to go looking for people's pronouns before interacting on Q&A?
No, that is not required.And look, even the "forbidden Twitter question" has a sane answer:
8. What if someone wants to be referred to as "the Great and Mighty One" or by an obscenity or something?
If something is obviously unreasonable and seems to be requested unkindly, please feel free to flag for moderator attention. [...] Offensive/trolling “pronouns” (e.g.“attack helicopter”) should be flagged.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Also, the term "Orwellian" that Shog9 seemed to think was so trite when I used it. Now they're literally rewriting history, deleting the embarrassing context and making it look like all these possible objections they're addressing here come from them and not from the other post.
That's standard SE procedure for questions, as (for normal questions) it's not about who asked them but what they are about. Applying this here for a discussion on meta can be seen to be in bad taste, but it's nothing special for their modus operandi.
Importantly, the objections are still there (in the FAQ) and being addressed. "Orwellian" would mean they're being black-holed without being addressed at all.
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@topspin quoted in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Offensive/trolling “pronouns” (e.g.“attack helicopter”) should be flagged.
I'm gonna flag the hell out of every pronoun containing a letter "x" or "z".
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@Gąska said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@topspin quoted in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Offensive/trolling “pronouns” (e.g.“attack helicopter”) should be flagged.
I'm gonna flag the hell out of every pronoun containing a letter "x" or "z".
You should flag accounts with unreadable
moonrunesChinese first because there is a certain active user on StackOverflow who has a user name with intentional sensitive Chinese words combined together, done out of respite of said government.I'm surprised nobody bothered to bring that user up and instead argue about some boring US political correctness topics.
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Looks like they did correct the code of conduct now: "they for everyone" and "username only" are no longer counted as misgendering.
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@Medinoc said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Looks like they did correct the code of conduct now: "they for everyone" and "username only" are no longer counted as misgendering.
Yeah, it's progress. But there's more ambiguity than I'd like. Apparently I can dodge using someone's pronouns entirely if I object to them (by e.g. just using usernames), but I can't conspicuously do so, because that's rude. Okay, maybe that's a sensible compromise. But much will hinge on what counts as conspicuous.
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@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Looks like the author is selling her own brand of social justiceCompassionate Coding™️
var image = bigImage.Resize(); DoSomethingWith(image); // remove dispose call, nobody deserves to be "tossed aside", replace this with a more compassionate call!!! // image.Dispose(); // instead of dispose, suggest to the image that it might an idea to leave and free up memory, it is however // completely up to the image, and it doesn't have to leave if it doesn't want to image.SuggestHoliday();
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Cabbage said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
how difficult it is to change a community built on a foundation of toxicity
is how everyone has been, since in the very first place, talking about the problems in SO as if the rep whore deal happens spontaneously for some hypothetical "toxicity" by some "sociopath bro stereotype" "trolls" that needs to be witch-hunted while they have nothing to do with the problem itself.
No, it has always been there, and they are responsible for it. They have been rep whoring since the very beginning, stemmed from 's belief of performing community regulation entirely through gamification, and actually making the system run this way. Did nobody remember the whole "stick 'for programmers' on every question to make it relevant to the site" meta which culminated to "programming on a boat", the only one question perma-deleted from the site? And that was back in 2009. Rep whores were already all over the place since that period. Everyone just chose to willfully close an eye about it.
It has nothing to do with the arbitrary "toxicity" deal. In fact lots of users are more concerned about continuing rep whoring than debating who is wrong, or making any changes to CoCs, or anything . Steering the discussion to the former is really the idea of SE company who has the bright idea of thinking all of these are caused by hypothetical "nasty" people that isn't "being nice". (And if you think about it, they starting the "be nice" policy after left the company at 2012. I think they might have fundamental ideological differences on this issue.) No, really what you need is to shoot in the face and remove a system that is fundamentally rep whore friendly.
Yeah, when I first read her, "how difficult it is to change a community built on a foundation of toxicity," line, I was like, "Yeah! Right on!" because I assumed she was talking about the fundamental crud of SO. Then I realized she was just another SJW wannabe thought police, and I kind of hoped someone would close her tweet for being duplicate.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Gąska said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@topspin quoted in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Offensive/trolling “pronouns” (e.g.“attack helicopter”) should be flagged.
I'm gonna flag the hell out of every pronoun containing a letter "x" or "z".
You should flag accounts with unreadable
moonrunesChinese first because there is a certain active user on StackOverflow who has a user name with intentional sensitive Chinese words combined together, done out of respite of said government.I'm surprised nobody bothered to bring that user up and instead argue about some boring US political correctness topics.
Oh right, "Ciro Santilli".
Seems it has been discussed before though:
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@DoctorJones I prefer
image.FuckOff()
.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@DoctorJones I prefer
image.FuckOff()
.Nonono, that's rape culture. Try
image.SeeYouSoon()
instead.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
I suppose you mean this?
No, I mean this one:
It's exactly what I said: a new post that says all the same stuff but in a more reasonable tone of voice. And given that it's currently not being downvoted to oblivion the way the last one was, the trick seems to be working.
For what it's worth, I downvoted
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@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@DoctorJones I prefer
image.FuckOff()
.Nonono, that's rape culture. Try
image.SeeYouSoon()
instead.Too ableist. Perhaps
image.hasBeenCanceled()
.
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@boomzilla #naming-is-hard
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@JBert The top answer said
Ciro Santilli's girlfriend was a Falun Gong practitioner and was prosecuted by the Chinese government
...which means she totally deserves it? Falun Gong is a famous cult specialized in anti-Chinese goverment propaganda (along with typical cult behaviours, including squeezing all life and money out of followers along the bottom ladder), and really only idiots would practice it. I know he's an idiot, but I didn't realize he was so idiotic. I'd put him on the ban list way before anything else.
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@boomzilla said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@DoctorJones I prefer
image.FuckOff()
.Nonono, that's rape culture. Try
image.SeeYouSoon()
instead.Too ableist. Perhaps
image.hasBeenCanceled()
.image.putOnABus()
? Is it too TV-centric?
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@Gąska said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@topspin quoted in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Offensive/trolling “pronouns” (e.g.“attack helicopter”) should be flagged.
I'm gonna flag the hell out of every pronoun containing a letter "x" or "z".
I assume you're joking, but:
So you intend to violate the one rule of the code of conduct: don't be an ass.
In that case, if your complaint about the CoC is that it doesn't allow you to troll people, then I doubt SE will find that objection problematic. More like "yes, that's the point".
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And now they've suspended Robert Harvey, another of the formerly most respected mods on the site. As usual, total radio silence from SE's end as to what happened. A bit of information being pieced together from Robert's side makes it appear that he got brigaded and mass-flagged by SJW bigots for having the nerve to question the new orthodoxy they're attempting to impose.
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336339/why-was-robert-harvey-suspended
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@Mason_Wheeler LOL:
Some people decided that this was a duplicate of an unrelated question. This one is to prevent a specific suspension from damaging the site, the other is a generic request to discuss suspensions.
After all, questions aren't free.
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@topspin said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Gąska said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@topspin quoted in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Offensive/trolling “pronouns” (e.g.“attack helicopter”) should be flagged.
I'm gonna flag the hell out of every pronoun containing a letter "x" or "z".
I assume you're joking
Only half-joking (because ). The only people who insist on being referred to by any other pronouns than those found in 1999 edition of Oxford Dictionary are pretentious assholes who want to make life harder for everyone else for their own amusement (it's not even about psychical comfort - just amusement). They're no different than the attack helicopter trolls, except they genuinely think it's their God-given right (nevermind that they don't believe in God) to demand other people to dance as they please.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
...which means she totally deserves it? Falun Gong is a famous cult specialized in anti-Chinese goverment propaganda (along with typical cult behaviours, including squeezing all life and money out of followers along the bottom ladder), and really only idiots would practice it.
And that justifies organ harvesting exactly… how?
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@dfdub said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
...which means she totally deserves it? Falun Gong is a famous cult specialized in anti-Chinese goverment propaganda (along with typical cult behaviours, including squeezing all life and money out of followers along the bottom ladder), and really only idiots would practice it.
And that justifies organ harvesting exactly… how?
Are your retarded or something? Chinese government possibly having done shady things to them doesn't mean Falun Gong aren't bad either. Nor does it mean I have somehow "justified" such acts. Your accusation using the typical US method of topic misdirection and demonizing the opponent is astounding, and I think SE is more suitable to you than here.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Nor does it mean I have somehow "justified" such acts.
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
...which means she totally deserves it?
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Your accusation using the typical US method
Funny how I've apparently adapted a "typical" method for a country I don't live in and am not a citizen of.
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@dfdub said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Your accusation using the typical US method
Funny how I've apparently adapted a "typical" method for a country I don't live in and am not a citizen of.
We're insidious like that.
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@dfdub said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
...which means she totally deserves it?
Yes? If you can't understand figure of speech you're still retarded. Ciro Santilli's girlfriend being prosecuted being a Falun Gong is 1. really her fault and not the Chinese government, and 2. already a in the first place, so his eventual action on SO is ridiculous, and frankly shouldn't even belong to there in the first place.
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Your accusation using the typical US method
Funny how I've apparently adapted a "typical" method for a country I don't live in and am not a citizen of.
Why don't you answer the question in the first half instead of quoting only the parts you can answer?
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Falun Gong is a famous cult specialized in anti-Chinese goverment propaganda (along with typical cult behaviours, including squeezing all life and money out of followers along the bottom ladder), and really only idiots would practice it.
Any sources for this claim? A cursory search doesn't reveal anything more nut-jobby than many other religious movements, but it does seem like the Chinese government went to great lengths to try to discredit the movement. So to me it looks like you've got your accusations the wrong way round.
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@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Ciro Santilli's_P_'s girlfriend being prosecuted being aFalun GongChristian is 1. really her fault and not the Chinese government
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@DoctorJones said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
var image = bigImage.Resize();
BUG: Fat-shaming!
@DoctorJones said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
DoSomethingWith(image);
BUG: Failure to ask for consent!
Your Compassionate Coding™ license has been revoked.
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@Zerosquare said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@DoctorJones said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
var image = bigImage.Resize();
BUG: Fat-shaming!
@DoctorJones said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
DoSomethingWith(image);
BUG: Failure to ask for consent!
Your Compassionate Coding™ license has been
revokedcanceled.FTFY
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@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@DoctorJones I prefer
image.FuckOff()
.Nonono, that's rape culture. Try
image.SeeYouSoon()
instead.That sounds like a threat!
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@dcon said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@JBert said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@_P_ said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@DoctorJones I prefer
image.FuckOff()
.Nonono, that's rape culture. Try
image.SeeYouSoon()
instead.That sounds like a threat!
COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM
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@lolwhat Help! Help! I'm being disposed!
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@lolwhat said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM
Coming!
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@lolwhat Help! Help! I'm being disposed!
When did you turn into a trans hooker?
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@dcon said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
@lolwhat Help! Help! I'm being disposed!
When did you turn into a trans hooker?
When he got married?
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@gleemonk said in Stack Exchange experiences Stack Meltdown, by enforcing preferred pronouns in site-wide communications:
Damn now I feel like the proverbial angry old man. I just read their proposed new CoC that was supposed to mend the situation. Fuck that they've really been owned by gender trolls. If they get that instated I'll just refuse to talk to anybody who demands anything outside of he/she/they/it. (It probably won't happen because people by and large have other shit to do.) I have enough experience with crazy people to value my sanity and disengage when somebody's telling me how this special pronoun is important to their identity. When I'm not sticking around to talk about their gender, why should it matter?
What I find unreasonable is to introduce more specific pronouns. The feeling of being excluded by he/she when you're neither I can understand. But then why not just settle on a gender-neutral pronoun and be done with it? If everybody can invent their own that's just going to be a mess because nobody else is going to know how to pronounce or inflect it. I'm not going to make my speech harder just to placate unreasonable people. The whole thing reeks of "education" where the unwilling masses are supposed to learn about "the many genders". Well I know the theory, but I'm not interested in learning about all the genders people have invented lately.
Just imagine what will happen when they start attacking languages with gender based words...oh man.