Apple stand
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@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
Hell, you can go into your local supermarket and find 20 different brands of exactly the same pineapple juice.
You are arguing that it is no big deal to only have one kind of juice to buy.
Not pineapple juice, juice. Because you're still only talking about flagships.
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@pie_flavor said in Apple stand:
You are arguing that it is no big deal to only have one kind of juice to buy.
As long as it's coffee beans juice
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Its scientifically proven that too much choice is worse for customers:
The Jam Study Strikes Back: When Less Choice Does Mean More Sales
The Jam Study is one of the most famous experiments in consumer psychology, and new research to be published in the Journal of Consumer Psychology supports the Jam Study’s controversial concl…
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@Grunnen I don't see how fewer sales because of too much choice is that detrimental. Consumption is important for the economy but up to a certain point. There is good consumption and there is excessive consumerism. If somebody doesn't buy something because he is flooded by choice then probably he doesn't really want it or need it.
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@Grunnen anyway I reject the notion that there is too much choice in the smartphone industry. Viable choices are maybe 20 at most for each price point. That's similar to the car industry and that's not a big deal is it?
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@admiral_p Oh, I don't want to say that there is a problem!
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@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
I know, it's fun to see Apple fanboys trying to wrap their heads around such a foreign concept as, "Omg, someone's opinion is different from mine!!!!" but it's alright.
How ironic considering this was said earlier:
@pie_flavor said in Apple stand:
The iPhone is objectively worse in literally every area
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@levicki said in Apple stand:
@acrow said in Apple stand:
Depending on which way the connector's inserted, earbud output pins will be between [V-in] and [GND].
Routable or non-routable pins are not really relevant, the issue is 220 (or 110) V breaking through the faulty charger into the phone and then finding a path of low(er) resistance through earphone cable, especially nasty if you are also touching the metal part of a phone or laptop and make a closed circuit with ground.
I disagree. Any charger can fail. So if I were to design a connector that houses both power input and headphone output, I'd place them as far from each other as possible. And probably place the 5V and GND in adjacent pins. This way, in case of failure, the shortest electrical path is more likely to be between the adjacent power pins, and not through someone's sweaty earbuds and noggin.
Reroutability also makes the pins internally connected in more places than just the audio amplifier, increasing the chances of any kind of headphone fry-up.
But I do admit that hindsight is 20/20, and I probably would have glossed over this failure mode just like Apple's engineers did.
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@Luhmann said in Apple stand:
@loopback0 said in Apple stand:
Don't forget your tinfoil hat.
would that increase or decrease the chance of being hit by lighting?
Chances of lighting hit depends on whether you wear it at a disco that has spotlights.
Chances of lightning hit would depend on the length of the hat's trail. and survivability on thickness and coverage, but whatever...
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If your charger fails in a way that connects mains directly to the output, then it's already game over. Even if you made a phone that could withstand such a condition (which would be very difficult), the user could still get shocked simply by touching the cable while plugging or unplugging it.
Fortunately, proper charger design ensures that the likelihood of this failure mode is extremely low.
Unfortunately, plenty of cheap chargers cut corners there.
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@topspin And I meant it. I don't like the menus. I don't like Safari. The notifications and home screen and blah blah blah are objectively worse.
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@Grunnen said in Apple stand:
Its scientifically proven that too much choice is worse for customers
It is also proven that competition is better for the consumer.
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@pie_flavor said in Apple stand:
@topspin And I meant it. I don't like the menus. I don't like Safari. The notifications and home screen and blah blah blah are objectively worse.
Having a Huawei phone I have some sort of iOS-y skin on my Android phone. It's not too bad. But then again, even though you don't have an app drawer, you can choose:
- where to place each app, on which screen, adding as many screens as you like
- which apps to hide
and I like icon notifications, which are very good for messaging apps, because I sometimes swipe the notification away and I forget to read the messages without them. I think it's the best of both worlds. The fact that you have all of your apps on your homescreens forces you to organise your apps better (otherwise it's just a mess).
One key deficiency of Android is not having a log of notifications. Many times I have swiped a notification by mistake, for it to be lost forever.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
@Grunnen said in Apple stand:
Its scientifically proven that too much choice is worse for customers
It is also proven that competition is better for the consumer.
All generalizations are false. Including this one.
But honestly, this dogmatic bullshit statement being repeated all the time seriously triggers me. Most monopolies are evil, but unfortunately more often than not competition creates a clusterfuck of barely inter-operable, difficult to navigate ideologies doing this, but not that, and the other way round. Tell me again how is that is better for the consumer who generally doesn't give a shit how the product was made, only whether it does the job at hand or not.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Apple stand:
barely inter-operable, difficult to navigate ideologies
Outside of the tech industry, there's not a lot of interoperability to worry about. If you buy one shirt or another, or one brand of ground beef or another, they're not going to be incompatible with your other clothing or spaghetti sauce ingredients
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@Zerosquare There's a difference in shocking a customer and electrocuting their head. Literally a difference of life or death.
Also, most phones phones insulate their exterior to a degree (except iPhones that can be Held Wrong (tm) ), so the user will NOT get shocked with a mere 230V AC. They'd need at least 1000V to get through the plastic casing.
And, finally, in this case the AC line voltage was routed through the victim's head, as far as I understood the articles. In a properly designed phone, with statically assigned input pins, the input TVS diode would have let out the smoke, followed by a fuse somewhere. Letting any kind of overvoltage out through another pin is a design failure. I'm not saying that the phone should survive this. But it should not let the user get electrocuted before melting itself (which the user usually notices, thus discarding the phone).
Edit:
P.S. I can see what you mean now. You assume that only the phase got connected to, say, the phone's internal GND, and from there to the user's earlobe through a frayed earbud.
Whereas I think that the AC voltage got to the +5V line, and the GND was connected to Neutral (or other prong anyway) in the cheapo charger anyway. So, the +5V and GND were connected to the leads of the AC line directly, placing the user's head between them when they leaked over to the audio pins.
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@Applied-Mediocrity the interoperability is dealt with with standards. And maybe fucking kicking those tech fuckers in the balls until they stop doing nonstandard stuff. Or maybe regulation.
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@acrow said in Apple stand:
In a properly designed phone, with statically assigned input pins, the input TVS diode would have let out the smoke, followed by a fuse somewhere. Letting any kind of overvoltage out through another pin is a design failure.
TVS diodes in phones are mainly to protect against static discharges, which are high-voltage but low-energy. A mains-to-output short can deliver enough energy to turn your diode into a crater in a very short time. And fuses are not going to save you either ; even relatively low currents can be lethal.
It is possible to design inputs that can tolerate such abuse (for example some industrial devices are very rugged), but not in something as miniaturized as a phone, and not for high-speed communications. For starters, the pins on the connector are too close together to prevent arcing.
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@hungrier True. The most annoying things are certainly specific to tech industry.
@admiral_p said in Apple stand:
@Applied-Mediocrity the interoperability is dealt with with standards. And maybe fucking kicking those tech fuckers in the balls until they stop doing nonstandard stuff. Or maybe regulation.
Hasn't been working very well so far. For one, my foot is tired.
Now, I don't know what the solution is or indeed whether there is any at all, but blathering "compotishen gud", as I've said, triggers me.
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@MrL said in Apple stand:
@Zerosquare said in Apple stand:
Yeah, except when they botch the design and refuse to acknowledge the problem. Like Macbook keyboards that die if a bread crumb falls on them, internal screen flex cables that break because they're a few millimeters too short, tablets that bend because they don't have enough structural strength, and lots of others hardware issues.
My favourite is one of their laptops ungluing itself because of poor glue quality, with its own heat because of shit cooling design.
If I recall correctly, the monitor hinges are directly attached to the part secured by said glue as well.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
I will say Apple makes robust and high quality hardware that rarely breaks.
Louis Rossmann who - much to Apple's annoyance - makes his living repairing Apple products thinks otherwise:
For TL;DR version see the video description which lists all of the issues.
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@pie_flavor said in Apple stand:
what the fuck is wrong with 16:9?
The major issue is that isn't 16:10. Sadly I seem to be one of the very few people who care
.
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@Zerosquare said in Apple stand:
For starters, the pins on the connector are too close together to prevent arcing.
Yes, yes they are. Which is why it is bad engineering practise to
a. place audio pins in the same connector as the charger input, if they can potentially be used at the same time
b. place audio outputs between the power input pins, in any connector orientation, so they're the first to be arc'd onto
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@Zerosquare said in Apple stand:
even relatively low currents can be lethal.
Famously, a US Navy recruit electrocuted himself when he tried to measure his internal body resistance, hand to hand, with a 9V battery (well, I suppose it was a regular multimeter). He had deliberately crammed the probes into his flesh as to bypass skin resistance. Internal body resistance is quite low (blood, basically a alone solution, is a very good conductor, and internal body resistance is maybe 100-200ohms). The current (40-100ish mA) was high enough to send his heart into fibrillation.
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@Grunnen said in Apple stand:
Its scientifically proven that too much choice is worse for customers:
offering consumers less choice can be good for sales. [Emphasis in original]
"good for sales" != "good for customers"
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@Deadfast said in Apple stand:
@MrL said in Apple stand:
@Zerosquare said in Apple stand:
Yeah, except when they botch the design and refuse to acknowledge the problem. Like Macbook keyboards that die if a bread crumb falls on them, internal screen flex cables that break because they're a few millimeters too short, tablets that bend because they don't have enough structural strength, and lots of others hardware issues.
My favourite is one of their laptops ungluing itself because of poor glue quality, with its own heat because of shit cooling design.
If I recall correctly, the monitor hinges are directly attached to the part secured by said glue as well.
At first I thought you're talking about this new Apple Stand.
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@hungrier said in Apple stand:
they're not going to be incompatible with your other clothing or spaghetti sauce ingredients
The spaghetti sauce ingredients may, however, be incompatible with your clothing.
Filed under: Never eat spaghetti while wearing a white shirt.
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@HardwareGeek said in Apple stand:
Filed under: Never eat spaghetti while wearing a white shirt.
That's why you can choose between numerous different sauces. Match the color of the sauce with your shirt. Problem solved.
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@HardwareGeek said in Apple stand:
The spaghetti sauce ingredients may, however, be incompatible with your clothing.
On the contrary, I think spaghetti sauce works too well with any clothing.
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@HardwareGeek You can argue whether sales are good for customers, but I think there is no reasonable argument for saying that customers benefit from not buying anything out of confusion and uncertainty.
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@Grunnen If nothing else, they save money by not buying something they don't really need.
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@Luhmann said in Apple stand:
@loopback0 said in Apple stand:
Don't forget your tinfoil hat.
would that increase or decrease the chance of being hit by lighting?
Yes.
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@hungrier said in Apple stand:
If you buy one shirt or another, or one brand of ground beef or another, they're not going to be incompatible with your other clothing or spaghetti sauce ingredients
If anything spaghetti sauce seems to be a little bit too compatible with my other clothes.
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@admiral_p said in Apple stand:
One key deficiency of Android is not having a log of notifications. Many times I have swiped a notification by mistake, for it to be lost forever.
That's been fixed recently...
Granted, I think its a not-exposed-by-default intent, but it's there in Oreo I believe.
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@Tsaukpaetra Such a user-friendly format.
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@loopback0 said in Apple stand:
@Tsaukpaetra Such a user-friendly format.
Hence why it's hidden by default. I think its a debugging thing.
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@kazitor said in Apple stand:
@levicki said in Apple stand:
those who fell from a bike,
BTDT
I've broken several helmets. No broken heads. And only 1 broken bone. (while commuting! never during a race)
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@Zerosquare said in Apple stand:
A mains-to-output short can deliver enough energy to turn your diode into a crater in a very short time.
I was about to ask why would it do that?! but then I remembered we're talking chinesium, and I've seen the literally crazy stuff that some Asians do when it comes to electricity…
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@Grunnen if we're talking about phones, they are, as of today:
- relatively cheap (even if you buy a flagship phone at current insane prices, it's ~$1000, which is a lot for a phone but it's not like you're buying a house or a car)
- basically all good enough (even the cheap phones!), and more
What can ever happen if you don't make the optimal choice? So it's slightly slower than it could be. It takes slightly worse photos. The screen has slightly less accurate colours, or it's slightly less bright, or it has some slight artifacts that you only notice if you look closely. The battery life is slightly shorter. Etc.
Who bloody cares! If you're overwhelmed, just get any smartphone, anyone at all, in the price range you want. There are those who do care, and they get to obsess over the small differences.
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@admiral_p Oh absolutely. I’ve had a Huawei Psomething Pro and now I have an iPhone. Both have advantages and disadvantages and the overall judgement will depend on what (if anything) you find most important about a smartphone.
And that’s exactly why I get a bit allergic if someone says “X is objectively better in all aspects”.
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@levicki said in Apple stand:
unless you want to make a phone which has no Google Play Store and thus no software to run
Amazon tablets, phones and Fire TV stick don't have Google Play Store but have the Amazon Appstore for Android.
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@levicki said in Apple stand:
That's what I was saying, there is no diversity.
I guess you are also claiming that there is no diversity when it comes to PCs either? After all, is there any difference between having Dell or $other-brand? Between an AMD CPU and an Intel one? Radeon or GeForce? Can your average user tell any difference, in terms of performance?
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@cvi said in Apple stand:
Can your average user tell any difference, in terms of performance?
Nope! Your average user is a mouth-drooler that just writes on FaceTube, and can't tell the difference between a Web Browser and a Word Processor.
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@Jaloopa said in Apple stand:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Apple stand:
would I include details on something I don't know?
YMBNH
Not new, just forgot where I was for a moment.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Apple stand:
just forgot where I was for a moment.
You should have liked the place to remember it
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@TimeBandit said in Apple stand:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Apple stand:
just forgot where I was for a moment.
You should have liked the place to remember it
I forgot....
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@levicki said in Apple stand:
@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
The original point you made was these certifications and licenses Google requires from its manufacturers is a bad thing. Now you say they don't do it enough? Make up your damn mind.
No, my original point was a counter-point to your claim that Android is free -- I wasn't judging whether that is good or bad, just stating a fact that it's not free as in beer nor it is a free software unless you want to make a phone which has no Google Play Store and thus no software to run.
It's all relative. If I wanted to build and sell my own Android phone, there's a possibility. Some hurdles to cross and money to pay, but it's possible. Apple's completely impossible.
Android is almost as much of a walled garden as iOS except that Apple is at least not pretending to be fostering competition like Google does while having a de facto monopoly which it abuses to get an advantage over other vendors who have to work with its scraps.
A de facto monopoly? Did I miss some news that Apple was capsized by Google? Are my eyes deceiving me when I am able to choose between a brand new $270 Motorola and a $900 Samsung Galaxy, each with their own pros and cons, a lot of which is that one of them is far more affordable?
@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
Because the Apple brand of the pineapple juice costs $10 per bottle, when I get to enjoy the choice of getting the $5 one instead.
So you can get diabetes in half the time? Good choice.
Lol, you think I buy twice as many because it's half the price. Your lack of understanding is staggering.
@The_Quiet_One said in Apple stand:
I care about choice if I can spend $500 on a new phone that I primarily use for browsing the Internet, texting, and making phone calls with instead of $1,000 for the same.
- You can't get the same for $500.
So?
- If that's all you need good for you, but don't judge others who want more.
I don't judge others for purchasing Apple. I judge Apple for overpricing their stuff. Yes, it works for them, but I personally don't buy into it. If people like iPhones and Macbooks, then good for them. But when I see stuff like the OP $999 piece of metal monitor stand for a monitor that, without other special expensive hardware, doesn't fit a standard mount, then you bet your ass I'll call Apple out on it.
