Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness
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@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Sensible people reboot their system manually
Smart people use an OS that doesn't need to reboot for every small update
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@TimeBandit Like what?
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@pie_flavor Like "Not Windows"
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@TimeBandit I mean, the only other two (commonly used) desktop OSes I know of are OSX and Linux, both of which require you to restart to update.
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@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
OSX and Linux, both of which require you to restart to update.
Linux only require you to restart to update the kernel.
You have been brainwashed by Windows Update
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@pie_flavor they should make a GUI
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
OSX and Linux, both of which require you to restart to update.
Linux only require you to restart to update the kernel.
You have been brainwashed by Windows Update
I even remember the push to make the kernel hot-swappable. Later aba doned if I'm not mistaken.
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@bb36e said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor they should make a GUI
Something like this
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@Carnage said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I even remember the push to make the kernel hot-swappable. Later aba doned if I'm not mistaken.
Not abandoned, but now in Oracle land
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@Carnage hotswapping kernels is nice to have but a reboot is necessary if you upgrade core libraries anyways
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@bb36e said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
but a reboot is necessary if you upgrade core libraries anyways
And how often are they updated?
Still WAY better than Windows
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@bb36e said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Carnage hotswapping kernels is nice to have but a reboot is necessary if you upgrade core libraries anyways
Back when I was running the bleeding edgiest of early Gentoo, I actually managed to swap out core libraries without rebooting. But things went all sorts of weird for a while there. And it was definitely not worth the effort compared to a reboot.
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Carnage said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I even remember the push to make the kernel hot-swappable. Later aba doned if I'm not mistaken.
Not abandoned, but now in Oracle land
Ah well, that's pretty much where it belongs.
If you have such needs for uptime that taking systems wholly offline for kernel swaps is out of the question, doing it with distributed systems is safer.
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
OSX and Linux, both of which require you to restart to update.
Linux only require you to restart to update the kernel.
Yes, that's what I said.
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@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Yes, that's what I said.
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It's shit like this that makes me stay with W7 on my main machine.
Yesterday I thought it was a good time to update Windows, even though there was no notification saying there were updates. So I ran Windows Updates, saw the "You're up to date" message, but I figured I'd press the Check for updates button.
There were updates. I crossed my fingers and told it to go ahead and installed them. Then I restarted. Then I went to shut it down and I saw it said "Update and reboot" or whatever the words are.
I sighed and I told it to update and reboot. The next time around, it still said "Update and reboot". So I pulled Windows Update again and I saw no updates there. I checked the shutdown menu. Still "Update and reboot". Pressed "Check for updates". No updates.
But at least the shutdown menu.. well.. updated, and just said plain "Shutdown".
Today?
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
fun on the CLI
In a dwarf fortress sense, yes?
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@Jaloopa said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
fun on the CLI
In a dwarf fortress sense, yes?
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@Zecc said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Yesterday I thought it was a good time to update Windows
Found the problem.
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@TimeBandit At least it's generous enough to focus "Cancel" by default! No modern software company would even dream of allowing their
lusers to accidentally miss out on their Hot New Featuresâ˘
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@Zecc said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Yesterday I thought it was a good time to update Windows, even though there was no notification saying there were updates. So I ran Windows Updates, saw the "You're up to date" message, but I figured I'd press the Check for updates button.
Tell us. If you see a wasp nest, do you feel the need to throw a brick at it, too?
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@Zecc said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
It's shit like this that makes me stay with W7 on my main machine.
Yesterday I thought it was a good time to update Windows, even though there was no notification saying there were updates. So I ran Windows Updates, saw the "You're up to date" message, but I figured I'd press the Check for updates button.
There were updates. I crossed my fingers and told it to go ahead and installed them. Then I restarted. Then I went to shut it down and I saw it said "Update and reboot" or whatever the words are.
I sighed and I told it to update and reboot. The next time around, it still said "Update and reboot". So I pulled Windows Update again and I saw no updates there. I checked the shutdown menu. Still "Update and reboot". Pressed "Check for updates". No updates.
But at least the shutdown menu.. well.. updated, and just said plain "Shutdown".
Today?
You're trusting a notification? That's either a r-click and "STFU forever", or just Dismiss all. It's just like the notification inside Visual Studio - it takes a while to get a clue.
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@Zecc Notifications persist across restarts and the app has to remove them if they aren't relevant anymore. That applies to Windows' own Windows Update notifications, for some reason. Since your "Update and reboot" didn't get automatically fixed, I'm guessing it forgot to remove the notification as well until you noticed that it was there.
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@LB_ said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Notifications persist across restarts and the app has to remove them if they aren't relevant anymore.
This IMHO is absolutely ridiculous. Especially since their predecessor implementation, tray balloons, had a default functionality to timeout the notification.
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@TimeBandit Technically yes. But in reality when doing a distro upgrade you will want to restart the machine. There will be quite a lot of things changed as a result of a large upgrade and it is prudent to restart.
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@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@bb36e said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor they should make a GUI
Something like this
I've been using Linux in various flavours for quite a while now. Those GUIs never really work that well and are normally pretty buggy. I wouldn't trust them and I always use the CLI tools (half the time they are just piping the same commands to a hidden terminal).
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Speaking of Windows 10 notification fun, my install has suddenly decided that every notification is "Your OTP is 2018somenumbers"
Which I both hope is completely wrong and is very annoying...
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@LB_ said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Notifications persist across restarts
Yes, but there was no notification before.
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@Zecc said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@LB_ said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Notifications persist across restarts
Yes, but there was no notification before.
You may not have seen it - did you check the Action Center before restarting it the first time?
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@pie_flavor Are you saying there could have been a notification there the previous 2 or 3 boots but the orange icon next to the clock saying there was 1 new notification only appeared after the notification should have been cleared? Is that what you're saying?
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Do notifications survive reboots? I'm not sure they do on mine although I don't really pay that much attention.
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@loopback0 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Do notifications survive reboots? I'm not sure they do on mine although I don't really pay that much attention.
Sometimes. It's inconsistent IME.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in [Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more
Sometimes. It's inconsistent IME.
That's a great definition of the Windows 10 experience in general.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
It's inconsistent
IT at it's finest.
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@Luhmann said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
IT at
itIT's finest.FTFYinhopefullythewaymostpeoplewouldn'think.
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@Luhmann said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
It's inconsistent
IT at it's finest.
Laymans and early beginners think about computers as predictable deterministic machines. 1 and 0, 2 + 2 = 4, same action same result, and all that. But we, professionals, know very well that it's utterly untrue. Computers are in fact powered by magic, act on a whim, and really it's a small miracle every time something happens as expected in IT.
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@MrL as I always said, the more you understand about how computers work, the more you are amazed anything works, ever.
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@loopback0 Do you mean reboots or shutdowns (to hibernation, with the kernel saved as-is)? I imagine that has an effect on the persistense of notifications.
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@acrow When I said reboots I meant reboots.
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@loopback0 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
When I said reboots I meant reboots.
So ... you turned the screen off and on again?
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@loopback0 Just checking.
I find that disabling Fast Boot has a positive effect on behavioral consistency. But that may just be the Luck of Heroes, or whatever effect keeps my Linux installs going off without a hitch.
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@acrow Indeed, I have disabled hibernation and fast boot and my system behaves pretty consistently.
The only feature that Microsoft completely borked about a year ago is Family Safety. Once in a while, my children succeed in getting way more screen time per day than allocated. The only reliable solution I have found to date, is to turn on and off WIFI on my router for the periods that they are allowed. That solution is cross device, cross OS, cross everything!
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@TimeBandit Technically yes. But in reality when doing a distro upgrade you will want to restart the machine. There will be quite a lot of things changed as a result of a large upgrade and it is prudent to restart.
A distro upgrade include a kernel upgrade, so yes
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Those GUIs never really work that well and are normally pretty buggy.
You should try KDE
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@TimeBandit I have and it was the worst out of all of them. Incredibly slow, bloated, it generally looked terrible as it looked like it has been designed by someone that has just learned how to use gradient and bloom tool in photoshop.
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@TimeBandit Plus loads of underlying services and libraries changed. Even if you don't require the new kernel it is still prudent to do a reboot.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
had a default functionality to timeout the notification.
We have this in our app. People are constantly complaining that they miss the notification because they (went to the bathroom / got coffee / in a meeting / etcetcetc).
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@Zecc said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@LB_ said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Notifications persist across restarts
Yes, but there was no notification before.
I've seen those for at least the last 3 or 4 major updates...