I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this
-
Wat???
"Our culture is bad, so let's hire an executive from the company that literally stole medical records to cover-up a rape to fix it!"
-
I though you were gonna complain how he's "white CIS mail", thus he doesn't have magical properties needed to fix culture.
-
@cartman82 said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
"white CIS mail"
Leave USPS out of this!
-
@dkf said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@cartman82 said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
"white CIS mail"
Leave USPS out of this!
They deserve it.
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Uber culture fixer to fix up culture
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
"Our culture is bad, so let's hire an executive from the company that literally stole medical records to cover-up a rape to fix it!"
I read it as hiring someone who specializes in cleaning up exactly those kinds of companies. Not the kind of person who helped create the awful culture.
Frei will act as a senior advisor to the League of Legends creator's culture strike team, having spent a career helping companies such as Uber address their toxic culture by fostering inclusivity and teamwork.
Frances X. Frei is an American academic. She is the UPS Foundation Professor of Service Management and the Senior Associate Dean for Executive Education at the Harvard Business School, and she was the senior vice-president for leadership and strategy at Uber.
-
@boomzilla said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
senior vice-president for leadership
Fortunately, nobody senior to the senior VP needed to know anything about leadership…
-
@boomzilla The original headline in the tweet doesn't clarify that she was hired by Uber to fix their culture. Thus the reaction.
They've since updated the headline, it looks like.
That said, Uber is still a garbage company. Maybe she's tried her best, but.
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
The original headline in the tweet doesn't clarify that she was hired by Uber to fix their culture. Thus the reaction.
They've since updated the headline, it looks like.Maybe you should read more than, like, a headline before ranting.
-
League of Legends and the like are tied with Counter Strike for the worst communities ever.
And they aren't going to be able to fix that with any kind of filter or AI: The games are designed in a way that breeds toxicity. Because they're built on relying on random people.
The only 'fix' is getting rid of those games. Which I, for one, would not be opposed to.
-
-
-
@Magus One thing I admire about Team Fortress 2 is that, despite it being a team game, it's practically impossible to mess with other players. The worst you can do is not contribute to the team, and even then the experience doesn't get much worse for the rest.
In some other games, you get on a random match and you instantly get "OMG WHY ARE YOU FALLING BEHIND, YOU'RE RUINING THE GAME kick player vote".
-
@TwelveBaud said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
| || || |_
-
@anonymous234 said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Magus One thing I admire about Team Fortress 2 is that, despite it being a team game, it's practically impossible to mess with other players. The worst you can do is not contribute to the team, and even then the experience doesn't get much worse for the rest.
In some other games, you get on a random match and you instantly get "OMG WHY ARE YOU FALLING BEHIND, YOU'RE RUINING THE GAME kick player vote".
But TF2 is p. dead.
-
@boomzilla said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
"Our culture is bad, so let's hire an executive from the company that literally stole medical records to cover-up a rape to fix it!"
I read it as hiring someone who specializes in cleaning up exactly those kinds of companies.
-
@Magus said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
League of Legends and the like are tied with Counter Strike for the worst communities ever.
And they aren't going to be able to fix that with any kind of filter or AI: The games are designed in a way that breeds toxicity. Because they're built on relying on random people.
The only 'fix' is getting rid of those games. Which I, for one, would not be opposed to.
No.
-
Whatever happened to "fit in or fuck off?" Did it occur to these complainers that they have the option of working at a less-toxic company? That's a lesson most people learn by, say, age 24 when they receive pushback when trying to force an institution much greater than themselves to change.
-
@JazzyJosh said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@anonymous234 said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Magus One thing I admire about Team Fortress 2 is that, despite it being a team game, it's practically impossible to mess with other players. The worst you can do is not contribute to the team, and even then the experience doesn't get much worse for the rest.
In some other games, you get on a random match and you instantly get "OMG WHY ARE YOU FALLING BEHIND, YOU'RE RUINING THE GAME kick player vote".
But TF2 is p. dead.
What are the cool kids playing these days? PUBG? Fortnite? Please tell me there's a third option.
-
@pie_flavor -1 uninsightful, please clarify
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Whatever happened to "fit in or fuck off?" Did it occur to these complainers that they have the option of working at a less-toxic company? That's a lesson most people learn by, say, age 24 when they receive pushback when trying to force an institution much greater than themselves to change.
Whatever happened to "this might be worth fighting for"? And so far the company is actually "changing" if they want to hire an advisor.
Whether it'll change anything long-term remains a toss-up (likely going to "no") but it didn't happen by just moving on and shutting up about it.
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@JazzyJosh said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@anonymous234 said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Magus One thing I admire about Team Fortress 2 is that, despite it being a team game, it's practically impossible to mess with other players. The worst you can do is not contribute to the team, and even then the experience doesn't get much worse for the rest.
In some other games, you get on a random match and you instantly get "OMG WHY ARE YOU FALLING BEHIND, YOU'RE RUINING THE GAME kick player vote".
But TF2 is p. dead.
What are the cool kids playing these days? PUBG? Fortnite? Please tell me there's a third option.
Dota 2?
Artifact.
Uh...
Marvel Spider Man!
-
@JBert said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Whatever happened to "this might be worth fighting for"?
But of all companies, why Riot? I'm sure there are thousands of other companies that have toxic cultures for one reason or another that could use the help, but will never get it. The poor people stuck at those companies don't have such promise in front of them, and their options are more grim.
And so far the company is actually "changing" if they want to hire an advisor.
To what benefit? Riot's recipe has clearly worked, as they wouldn't have risen to their market position if they had a faulty business model. Perhaps they have a toxic company culture, but their customers have heretofore accepted it, much as how consumers willingly buy sweatshop garments to save a couple bucks.
Whether it'll change anything long-term remains a toss-up (likely going to "no") but it didn't happen by just moving on and shutting up about it.
It smells of posturing to me. I'd much rather they direct their resources into fixing their "game."
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Whatever happened to "fit in or fuck off?"
This is one of those "why should you have to?" things.
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Did it occur to these complainers that they have the option of working at a less-toxic company?
Did it occur to you that it's right and proper for people to complain about a sexist toxic company even existing in 2018?
That's like saying "sure the milk deliveryman whips his horses but you have an option not to buy the milk." Well ok, but why don't we focus on the problem of the horse whipping too?
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
But of all companies, why Riot?
Because it got press.
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Riot's recipe has clearly worked, as they wouldn't have risen to their market position if they had a faulty business model.
This is like people saying PHP is a good programming language because Facebook was made in it. It just raises the obvious question, "yeah but how much BETTER would Riot have been if they didn't have these issues to begin with?"
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Perhaps they have a toxic company culture, but their customers have heretofore accepted it, much as how consumers willingly buy sweatshop garments to save a couple bucks.
Two points:
- Their customers are LoL players, aka the worst garbage on Earth
- The customers by and large didn't know any of this was occurring until it got press
-
@JazzyJosh said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Dota 2?
The only MOBA I can tolerate is Heroes of the Storm, and even that is pushing it.
Artifact.
I was hoping this was a game where you go around collecting antiquated man-made objects from rich,
vivid archaeological dig site environments rendered using heavily-compressed JPEG textures.But no, it has to be another card game.
Uh...
Marvel Spider Man!
A tie-in, and a console game? Not looking good...
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Perhaps they have a toxic company culture, but their customers have heretofore accepted it, much as how consumers willingly buy sweatshop garments to save a couple bucks.
Internal company culture is the ultimate implementation detail that most people never know about, let alone care about.
-
@JazzyJosh said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
But TF2 is p. dead.
Well, yeah, but that's not relevant to the point.
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Their customers are LoL players, aka the worst garbage on Earth
What happens if you're playing LoL while driving an Uber?
-
@Groaner Jackbox Party Pack?
-
@boomzilla said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Perhaps they have a toxic company culture, but their customers have heretofore accepted it, much as how consumers willingly buy sweatshop garments to save a couple bucks.
Internal company culture is the ultimate implementation detail that most people never know about, let alone care about.
People don't care if companies sell their personal data. Or install rootkits on their computers. Why would they care about this?
-
@topspin said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@boomzilla said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Perhaps they have a toxic company culture, but their customers have heretofore accepted it, much as how consumers willingly buy sweatshop garments to save a couple bucks.
Internal company culture is the ultimate implementation detail that most people never know about, let alone care about.
People don't care if companies sell their personal data. Or install rootkits on their computers. Why would they care about this?
(Serious question:) Who is buying and playing their games, anyways? Is it mostly adults or parents buying for their teenage (?) kids? I know that a lot of people around here have a lot of time for playing games but I sure don't and neither do most of the people I know IRL. I have no idea what the industry demographics look like.
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Whatever happened to "fit in or fuck off?"
This is one of those "why should you have to?" things.
Because we do not live in an ideal, just world.
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Did it occur to these complainers that they have the option of working at a less-toxic company?
Did it occur to you that it's right and proper for people to complain about a sexist toxic company even existing in [$CURRENT_YEAR]?
They have every right to complain. Thing is, there are plenty of sexist, toxic companies in [$CURRENT_YEAR], some of them sexist and toxic in ways you might not expect, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I've seen enough dysfunctional workplaces in my short time in this industry to realize that it's easier to swap your employer than to change your employer.
That's like saying "sure the milk deliveryman whips his horses but you have an option not to buy the milk." Well ok, but why don't we focus on the problem of the horse whipping too?
Not buying the milk is how you exert leverage over the deliveryman. If another deliveryman springs up who doesn't whip horses, the second one steals the business of those for whom the whipping is an issue.
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Because we do not live in an ideal, just world.
Then fit in or fuck off, but why are you bothered by those that do try to change it for the better?
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Because it got press.
And the situation on the ground should have surprised approximately no one, just as how nobody who's read The Old New Thing and all the stories of cheating hardware drivers should have been surprised by the VW scandal. Or the fuss several years ago when several government employees abroad hired escorts.
This is like people saying PHP is a good programming language because Facebook was made in it. It just raises the obvious question, "yeah but how much BETTER would Riot have been if they didn't have these issues to begin with?"
The Internet runs on PHP. PHP is "good enough."
I once thought as you did, in a previous life, when faced with hundreds of customized reports written a decade prior that were copypasta with subtle differences between each of them. The situation meant we were shackled to a shitty ancient database driver that leaked memory and handles left and right (so it was unsuitable for use in a service) and couldn't ever change the shitty database schema because hundreds of these reports depended on it.
"You think these reports are crap," my manager scowled. "But I see it differently. Each of those reports brought us in $10,000."
You'll never be able to convince people on arguments of elegance if their standard is "good enough."
Two points:
- Their customers are LoL players, aka the worst garbage on Earth
If your customers are the worst garbage on Earth, you would do well to treat them well, give them what they want, and not get on a soapbox about toxicity. For it is They who are giving you a paycheck.
Get woke, go broke.
- The customers by and large didn't know any of this was occurring until it got press
So maybe this is damage control? I wonder if they have consulted a focus group to determine if it's worthwhile. Again, it smells like posturing, which is the fad in [$CURRENT_YEAR].
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Because we do not live in an ideal, just world.
Some people don't agree that the correct response to "the world's a shitty place" is "well do nothing about it".
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
They have every right to complain. Thing is, there are plenty of sexist, toxic companies in [$CURRENT_YEAR], some of them sexist and toxic in ways you might not expect, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I've seen enough dysfunctional workplaces in my short time in this industry to realize that it's easier to swap your employer than to change your employer.
It's a hard problem to solve therefore nobody should ever try to solve it.
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Not buying the milk is how you exert leverage over the deliveryman.
I disagree that that's enough.
-
@CreatedToDislikeThis said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Because we do not live in an ideal, just world.
Then fit in or fuck off, but why are you bothered by those that do try to change it for the better?
Will the proposed changes be effective, and also have their intended effect? Is solving "workplace toxicity" a milestone that can be met, or just a vague moving target? Will we end up with a healthy, vibrant work environment, or another Google?
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Some people don't agree that the correct response to "the world's a shitty place" is "well do nothing about it".
Where did I say that? My position is not "do nothing." It's "if you find yourself in a shitty company, get your ass out of there."
It's a hard problem to solve therefore nobody should ever try to solve it.
Oh man, I'd love for you to try to solve the problems at my aforementioned shitty employer (which, by the way, experienced 200% turnover over three years and is somehow still in business). At least twenty or thirty other people tried and failed. I can almost smell the popcorn in the microwave.
I disagree that that's enough.
Then what is? "There oughta be a law?" Assholes will always push the envelope of legal, acceptable behavior. If nobody else will go that far, there's money to be made by going farther.
-
@boomzilla Riot Games? 15-30. League of Legends (their only game) is Free to Play as well, so it's mostly who's buying cosmetics and character unlocks (It costs ~$200 to unlock every character with real money iff you are efficient. Advertised cost is ~$700)
This is from random googling.
I guess Mechs vs Minions exists as well, but that's a board game. It's surprisingly good quality for the price, but I refuse to purchase it :(
-
@Groaner Well, truth to be told, the fish usually rots from the head so the first step to clean up such a company would be to fire all the C-level executives.
They either tacitly tolerated or even actively promoted that environment.
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
This is one of those "why should you have to?" things.
Because only assholes expect everyone else to change to accommodate them.
-
@blakeyrat said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Some people don't agree that the correct response to "the world's a shitty place" is "well do nothing about it".
Stop . He is not talking about the world. He is talking about a company.
But that company is part of the world!!1!
Yeah, so don't work for them. If the rest of the high talent people do the same thing then they have no good talent and they die. Then the world is a better place and we don't have to do anything authoritarian like:
@Rhywden said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
the first step to clean up such a company would be to fire all the C-level executives.
-
@Rhywden said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Groaner Well, truth to be told, the fish usually rots from the head so the first step to clean up such a company would be to fire all the C-level executives.
They either tacitly tolerated or even actively promoted that environment.
Exactly! I'm glad you picked up on one of the hidden messages that management is usually complicit in the company culture. If it's a publicly-traded company, it's quite possible the shareholders could put enough pressure on the board to clean out the C-suite.
If it's a privately-held company, well, you're back to "fit in or fuck off."
-
@boomzilla said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Maybe you should read more than, like, a headline before ranting.
I didn't before downvoting the OP.
-
@boomzilla said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
the League of Legends creator's culture strike team
Sounds like they're on the wrong track already...
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
The only MOBA I can tolerate is Heroes of the Storm, and even that is pushing it.
I'll echo this sentiment.
-
@JazzyJosh said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Groaner Jackbox Party Pack?
Eh, I guess it's okay. Use Your Words is also pretty cool.
-
@Polygeekery arrived. This topic is officially garage material now.
-
@Groaner said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
Did it occur to these complainers that they have the option of working at a less-toxic company?
And how did you get those options? I guess it wasn't fitting in.
Most people don't have plenty of good job options. It's not easy to move on, and it's sad if you have to take an otherwise worse one because of something unfair.
-
@sockpuppet7 said in I'm sure the Gamergaters will turn this thread into garbage, but until then I have to post this:
@Polygeekery arrived. This topic is officially garage material now.
Nonsense. It's been nearly 50 posts and in spite of the thread title, we've all done a good job and exercised remarkable restraint by not bringing up Gamerg...
Wait... shit.