Garage door springs
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So came home on friday and the garage wouldn't open. Turns out one of the torsion springs broke.
Looked at getting it repaired, everybody wants somewhere around $500. Got the part numbers from the manufacturer (asked for the 20k cycles spring, so that I don't have to go through this again in another 10 years), ordered from the home depot for about $80.
There was one local place that said they would do the work for about $120, which is not bad. Most of the places wanted to charge me about $150 per spring (standard 10k cycles). I'll have to find them once the springs actually come in.
My question is this. On one hand there are a bunch of scary warnings everywhere from the manufacturer that these springs are under heavy tension, working on this can cause injury or death, on the other hand there are a bunch of youtube videos showing how easy it is to replace them.
Has anyone here done one of these? How likely am I to kill myself if I attempt to do this myself?
The other thing that's a PITA is that you can't get winding bars anywhere local (you can on Amazon for like $18, or some other places). I opted for getting a 2" x 36" bar and a hacksaw and I plan to make a couple of 18" winding bars out of it.
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I came here expecting a jeffing of a @Lorne-Kates blithering, and I was disappointed.
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
So came home on friday and the garage wouldn't open. Turns out one of the torsion springs broke.
Looked at getting it repaired, everybody wants somewhere around $500. Got the part numbers from the manufacturer (asked for the 20k cycles spring, so that I don't have to go through this again in another 10 years), ordered from the home depot for about $80.
There was one local place that said they would do the work for about $120, which is not bad. Most of the places wanted to charge me about $150 per spring (standard 10k cycles). I'll have to find them once the springs actually come in.
My question is this. On one hand there are a bunch of scary warnings everywhere from the manufacturer that these springs are under heavy tension, working on this can cause injury or death, on the other hand there are a bunch of youtube videos showing how easy it is to replace them.
Has anyone here done one of these? How likely am I to kill myself if I attempt to do this myself?
The other thing that's a PITA is that you can't get winding bars anywhere local (you can on Amazon for like $18, or some other places). I opted for getting a 2" x 36" bar and a hacksaw and I plan to make a couple of 18" winding bars out of it.
Not done it but I'd pay the money personally, big springs are frightening. After a friend broke his jaw with a suspension spring I started getting the garage to do them even though it's really simple.
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@cursorkeys it's worth noting that garage doors are light enough for 2 people to carry it effortlessly (or little effort if they're really big), while a suspension spring must sustain at least half ton of pressure all the time.
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
On one hand there are a bunch of scary warnings everywhere from the manufacturer that these springs are under heavy tension, working on this can cause injury or death, on the other hand there are a bunch of youtube videos showing how easy it is to replace them.
I heard anedoctes of truck mechanics dying from springs under heavy tension, so there is that. I wouldn't touch this stuff.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Garage door springs:
@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
On one hand there are a bunch of scary warnings everywhere from the manufacturer that these springs are under heavy tension, working on this can cause injury or death, on the other hand there are a bunch of youtube videos showing how easy it is to replace them.
I heard anedoctes of truck mechanics dying from springs under heavy tension, so there is that. I wouldn't touch this stuff.
I know of truck mechanics that got killed by exploding tires as well, but most people are perfectly ok with putting air in tires anyway.
But yeah, things under pressure are dangerous, so handle with care. Having your ribcage collapse from being punched in the chest by a spring isn't my idea of a good time.I haven't fiddled much with garage door springs, but they seem to be quite a bit less loaded than suspension springs, but I'd still handle them with respect.
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@carnage said in Garage door springs:
I know of truck mechanics that got killed by exploding tires as well, but most people are perfectly ok with putting air in tires anyway.
If I hear about car tires exploding like that, I won't be going to put air on them myself. The fuel station does it for free, anyway.
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This post is deleted!
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I'm a DIY guy most of the time and I won't touch those kinds of garage doors. Pay someone else who knows what they're doing. And stand far away while they work.
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@cursorkeys said in Garage door springs:
After a friend broke his jaw with a suspension spring I started getting the garage to do them
You need these (or something like it)
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/strut-spring-compressor/A-p2920186e
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@mott555 said in Garage door springs:
And stand far away while they work
with a camera pointed at them, just in case
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
My question is this. On one hand there are a bunch of scary warnings everywhere from the manufacturer that these springs are under heavy tension, working on this can cause injury or death, on the other hand there are a bunch of youtube videos showing how easy it is to replace them.
As a DIY guy who relies heavily on YouTube videos, here's my advice:
1.) If the YouTube video seems to be too brief, or takes things casually without talking about the dangers and perils of the task at hand, look for a YouTube video that does discuss these hazards. If the guy is just talking about handling a loaded spring without even mentioning ways to do it safely, don't follow that guy's advice. There is a safe way to do it, and you need to find a good instructional video of that specific way.
2.) If you have any doubts in your ability to do it yourself, especially if the stakes are high, don't. $500 for peace of mind that you'll not have an injury that resembles Wile E. Coyote's failed attempts at catching the road runner is money well spent.
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
Has anyone here done one of these?
Yes.
@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
How likely am I to kill myself if I attempt to do this myself?
Kill yourself? Not likely. But you could seriously injure yourself if not extremely careful. You are storing a hell of a lot of energy in those springs. Also, even if you don't injure yourself but just let the spring get away from you the rebound will most likely break the springs.
@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
The other thing that's a PITA is that you can't get winding bars anywhere local (you can on Amazon for like $18, or some other places). I opted for getting a 2" x 36" bar and a hacksaw and I plan to make a couple of 18" winding bars out of it.
You don't need to do that. Go back to the concrete section and get a 4' length of #4 rebar and cut it in half. You made have to file or grind down the oblong section of it but it will do the job perfectly well for $2.50. Cut it in half and wrap one end in electrical tape to save wear and tear on your hands.
If you do it, make goddamn sure that each and every time you go to change bars you are seated extremely well in the socket. Be OCD about it. Keep your body out of the line of fire. People have a habit out of prying things by putting their body weight over it and their chin under it. Do not do that. You are going to have to stand to the side and do it in the way that has the least mechanical advantage. Take breaks if you need to, but keep your body out of the way. If one of those bars gets away from you and hits you under the chin at the very least you are going to be eating soft foods for a very long time.
Also, if you do it, the sockets are 1/4 turn apart. Your springs should tell you how many turns should be put in the torsion springs. Multiply that times 4 and count out loud. Do not depend on the paint lines. Even 1/4-1/2 turn off will cause issues with the garage door. You need equal tension on each side. Say the count out loud so you are much less likely to double count any of the quarter turns.
Also consider the wear that has been placed on all the rest of the parts. If your springs are rated for 10K cycles then they probably lasted 15K or more. All of those cycles have also been put in to the rollers, the bearings on the cable drum and the cable. I said I have done it before, the end story is that I did it and then 2 years later ended up just replacing the entire garage door. If the springs are fucked the rest of the moving parts are probably shortly behind.
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@timebandit said in Garage door springs:
@cursorkeys said in Garage door springs:
After a friend broke his jaw with a suspension spring I started getting the garage to do them
You need these (or something like it)
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/strut-spring-compressor/A-p2920186eIt was a spring compressor like that that failed on him. One or both of them moved and then came off completely. There are expensive one-part ones that are supposedly bullet-proof but after seeing what happened to him I'd had enough.
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@mott555 said in Garage door springs:
I'm a DIY guy most of the time and I won't touch those kinds of garage doors. Pay someone else who knows what they're doing. And stand far away while they work.
Although I just typed out a whole thing about how to do it and it is not difficult, I agree with @mott555. If you are asking, you probably shouldn't do it.
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
Kill yourself? Not likely. But you could seriously injure yourself if not extremely careful. You are storing a hell of a lot of energy in those springs.
This. Remember, anytime you have energy stored, you have the potential for catastrophic release of that energy if something goes wrong. From a vase on a shelf to a gas tank to a laptop battery to a high-powered spring, catastrophic releases of energy make serious messes when they happen, and you want to make sure it's not going to make a mess of your body.
In this particular case, the best way to do this is to pay a trained professional do it for you.
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@masonwheeler said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
Kill yourself? Not likely. But you could seriously injure yourself if not extremely careful. You are storing a hell of a lot of energy in those springs.
This. Remember, anytime you have energy stored, you have the potential for catastrophic release of that energy if something goes wrong. From a vase on a shelf to a gas tank to a laptop battery to a high-powered spring, catastrophic releases of energy make serious messes when they happen, and you want to make sure it's not going to make a mess of your body.
In this particular case, the best way to do this is to pay a trained professional do it for you.
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
. You need equal tension on each side.
One of the weird things about my garage doors is that the springs are unmatched. I called the manufacturer to get the correct replacement springs and they also gave me unmatched springs.
Another kind of iffy thing is that I don't have the full part number for my door, just the serial number for one of the sections. Out of 5 people I spoke to, I got I think 4 different kinds of answers. The last guy, though, the tech, seemed to be the closest, as he at least gave me 10K springs that were the same color as the ones I have now.
He also gave me the 20K springs, but now I realize I described my windows wrong, so he may have overestimated the weight of my door (I think he came in at 216lb while others had it as 211lb).
If the spring is too strong for the weight of the door, do you just use fewer turns? Is there a calculation that I can use to figure out the proper number of rotations?
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
Somebody notice a sudden drop in temperature?
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
One of the weird things about my garage doors is that the springs are unmatched. I called the manufacturer to get the correct replacement springs and they also gave me unmatched springs.
Another kind of iffy thing is that I don't have the full part number for my door, just the serial number for one of the sections. Out of 5 people I spoke to, I got I think 4 different kinds of answers. The last guy, though, the tech, seemed to be the closest, as he at least gave me 10K springs that were the same color as the ones I have now.I didn't do any of that. I used a set of calipers and measured the wire diameter and then counted the number of turns. Also, my garage door was a pretty old and heavy type so it took two springs so I just had to make sure I ordered both type of wrap. I did not bother with the rest of that.
@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
He also gave me the 20K springs, but now I realize I described my windows wrong, so he may have overestimated the weight of my door (I think he came in at 216lb while others had it as 211lb).
If the spring is too strong for the weight of the door, do you just use fewer turns? Is there a calculation that I can use to figure out the proper number of rotations?5 lbs is fuck all. It is a garage door, not rocket surgery.
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@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
Somebody notice a sudden drop in temperature?
That depends, are you agreeing with me also? If so I might start summering in hell to escape the heat.
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
Somebody notice a sudden drop in temperature?
That depends, are you agreeing with me also? If so I might start summering in hell to escape the heat.
Firstly, yes. Secondly, I'm kind of referring to my signature
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
I didn't do any of that. I used a set of calipers and measured the wire diameter and then counted the number of turns. Also, my garage door was a pretty old and heavy type so it took two springs so I just had to make sure I ordered both type of wrap. I did not bother with the rest of that.
I measured the wire diameter too, but since I got two different kinds of springs, and one of them isn't broken yet, I guess I can't really measure it properly without taking the tension off.
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@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
Somebody notice a sudden drop in temperature?
That depends, are you agreeing with me also? If so I might start summering in hell to escape the heat.
Firstly, yes. Secondly, I'm kind of referring to my signature
I am whooshing I guess.
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
Somebody notice a sudden drop in temperature?
That depends, are you agreeing with me also? If so I might start summering in hell to escape the heat.
Firstly, yes. Secondly, I'm kind of referring to my signature
I am whooshing I guess.
Now, where do hellspawn reside? ;)
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@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If @masonwheeler is agreeing with me, and I with him, you can probably take that to the bank. ;)
Somebody notice a sudden drop in temperature?
That depends, are you agreeing with me also? If so I might start summering in hell to escape the heat.
Firstly, yes. Secondly, I'm kind of referring to my signature
I am whooshing I guess.
Now, where do hellspawn reside? ;)
Hell? I think I covered that.
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
If so I might start summering in hell to escape the heat.
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
I didn't do any of that. I used a set of calipers and measured the wire diameter and then counted the number of turns. Also, my garage door was a pretty old and heavy type so it took two springs so I just had to make sure I ordered both type of wrap. I did not bother with the rest of that.
I measured the wire diameter too, but since I got two different kinds of springs, and one of them isn't broken yet, I guess I can't really measure it properly without taking the tension off.
Could you take a picture of the spring mechanism and post it?
To possibly further dissuade you, I was present when the spring broke. It sounded like a gunshot, and I know what those sound like. If it had been during the day I would have checked my ass for an extra hole (I carry IWB on my right rear hip most of the time, but this happened late at night and I was dressed for bed). It was loud enough that my wife came from the other end of the house to see what had happened. It is a massive amount of energy.
If you are still not dissuaded, make certain you expand the spring before tightening down the set screws. I held one of the bars in and beat it with a hammer to expand the spring a couple of inches. You will want to tighten the set screws just a bit so they drag on the tube so that it will hold position. If you don't it will bind as soon as it starts raising the door.
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@timebandit said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
Now, where do hellspawn reside?
In Germany
I am kicking myself for missing that slow pitch right over the plate.
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@polygeekery Took you long enough to notice. You're getting old
On topic: For unrelated reasons, I was looking at similar springs (albeit in the centimeter range). I can either choose to buy from regular vendors who seem to sell such small springs for 1 to 3 € for each. Or I could go to Ebay and get a 100 for 5€.
Only problem: The Ebay ones don't mention the Spring Force (i.e.
N/m) for their selection. Just length, diameter and maximum compression length. :(
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@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
You're getting old
Do they tell you wire diameter and turns? You should be able to get in the ballpark with that.
For the price difference, if it is not time sensitive order the China ones on a pig in a poke basis and hope for the best.
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
You're getting old
Do they tell you wire diameter and turns? You should be able to get in the ballpark with that.
For the price difference, if it is not time sensitive order the China ones on a pig in a poke basis and hope for the best.
Naw, they don't tell that either. It's not time sensitive, no, but I'd like to get results I can repeat - because I want to use them for physics experiments ;)
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@rhywden said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery Took you long enough to notice. You're getting old
On topic: For unrelated reasons, I was looking at similar springs (albeit in the centimeter range). I can either choose to buy from regular vendors who seem to sell such small springs for 1 to 3 € for each. Or I could go to Ebay and get a 100 for 5€.
Only problem: The Ebay ones don't mention the Spring Force (i.e.
N/m) for their selection. Just length, diameter and maximum compression length. :(RS have a nice selection and tell you the spring force as well. Don't know if that's any good?
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@cursorkeys Thanks, The prices seem to be more reasonable than what I found previously.
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
Could you take a picture of the spring mechanism and post it?
If you are still not dissuaded, make certain you expand the spring before tightening down the set screws. I held one of the bars in and beat it with a hammer to expand the spring a couple of inches. You will want to tighten the set screws just a bit so they drag on the tube so that it will hold position. If you don't it will bind as soon as it starts raising the door.
Yea, I saw that on one video. I'm not doing that.
On one hand, I think I'm a pretty DIY guy, on the other hand, I won't even change my own oil.
Also nodebb doesn't seem to strip the location info. Had to remove it myself.
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
Yea, I saw that on one video. I'm not doing that.
You have to or the spring will bind. See that gap in between the sections of broken spring? That was to keep the spring from binding as it unwound. If you are unwilling to do that then you cannot change your garage door springs.
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@polygeekery Well I hope that place is still willing to do it for $125 or so, since all other places refuse to use customer parts (even the referral from home depot. WTF home depot, you sell me the springs, but the techs you refer to won't install them).
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@dangeruss don't call garage door places. Call handymen.
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@dangeruss I can understand that, really. If I were a garage door person I'd be unwilling to install springs of unknown provenance, given the risks of injury if they're not up to spec. I'd much rather use springs that I know are the right ones for the door, from a manufacturer whose products I trust.
As for Home Depot - I guess the springs they sell you are intended for the customers who are willing to do the installation themselves. Not really a WTF except that when you were asking for a referral it would have been a good idea to warn you that they wouldn't install customer-provided springs and maybe you should rethink buying those.
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@scarlet_manuka said in Garage door springs:
If I were a garage door person I'd be unwilling to install springs of unknown provenance, given the risks of injury if they're not up to spec. I'd much rather use springs that I know are the right ones for the door, from a manufacturer whose products I trust.
Yep. If it goes south because the springs are shit the customer doesn't blame the manufacturer, they blame the installer.
A few times a year we get a call from someone who wants to pull cable themselves and have us come terminate it. I always decline and tell them that we either do the entire job or we don't do it at all. If they kink cable and pull it too hard and all the other stuff you shouldn't do and then we come terminate it they will blame us for the job going south. It is always the last person to touch a job that gets stuck holding the bag.
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@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
It is always the last person to touch a job that gets stuck holding the bag.
As indeed we all know well in the IT field.
Sometimes you don't even have to touch a job. I seem to have acquired unofficial Excel guru status around here, so much so that I got an issue handed to me yesterday which has nothing to do with our team at all, from a person that I normally have no interaction with, just because it was Excel related. And since it was pretty simple to fix I think I've just dug that hole a little deeper now.
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@scarlet_manuka said in Garage door springs:
And since it was pretty simple to fix I think I've just dug that hole a little deeper now.
It's a shame you didn't also make the machine crash hard and start emitting smoke. That'd get you a reputation of being so expert that nobody would ever bring you problems!
(I'm the reputed build chain expert at work. I hate that reputation, but I can't stand having the build chain not working…)
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@dangeruss So, how'd it go, did you die?
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@gurth said in Garage door springs:
@gribnit said in Garage door springs:
@dangeruss So, how'd it go, did you die?
Possibly:
I'm afraid the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
I ordered the springs from home depot. Since it was a special order it may be a while. (The estimated time it gave was in August, so we'll see).
Once I get them, I'll try to find someone to install it. LIke I said there was one place that was willing to do it and they weren't crazy expensive.
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@dangeruss said in Garage door springs:
@polygeekery said in Garage door springs:
Could you take a picture of the spring mechanism and post it?
If you are still not dissuaded, make certain you expand the spring before tightening down the set screws. I held one of the bars in and beat it with a hammer to expand the spring a couple of inches. You will want to tighten the set screws just a bit so they drag on the tube so that it will hold position. If you don't it will bind as soon as it starts raising the door.
Yea, I saw that on one video. I'm not doing that.
On one hand, I think I'm a pretty DIY guy, on the other hand, I won't even change my own oil.
Also nodebb doesn't seem to strip the location info. Had to remove it myself.
That looks like a death trap.
