Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...
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@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden Do you happen to know what would work for PLA?
@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
cyclohexanone
My only experience with cyclohexa-anything was with cyclohexene, and that is an experience I would prefer to avoid repeating, and so, I'm sure, would my downwind neighbors. Combine that with the generally less than pleasant odor of ketones, and it doesn't sound fun. (Yes, I know -ane is not the same as -ene; still, my mind hears cyclohex- and goes Nope!)
It's not worse than acetone.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@gąska said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
There isn't any. Yet.
Quick! A Blakeyrat thread! Everybody come in and piss all over it! Remember, if Blakeyrat does a thing it must be stupid and wrong, so better tell him so! Quick, you don't want to get even 3 posts of actual conversation before the bashing begins!
Just ignore the topic and move on? But then how would Blakeyrat know he's a dumb stupid dumbass? You gotta post that stuff, man.
Dude, chill. You took what he was saying the wrong way. But the thread will go south pretty fast when you go off the handle like that.
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@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Red is PETG, silver is PLA. PETG has some slight issues with stringing but nothing serious.
Hmm. The resolution is pretty neat on those. Much better than what I remember of consumer-level printers (but that was 2-3 years ago too).
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@cvi I printed those at the lowest layer height possible: 0.05 mm. One frog thus took 2 hours.
The cube is a calibration cube of 2 cm height, length and width. You can also see the two (working!) M10 screws and nuts - those work with the default settings from Fusion 360. Only at sizes below M6 do I need to fiddle with the tolerances. At the M10 level they just work(tm) though - no special aftertreatment needed.
Of course you can only print them vertically.
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@rhywden For my next print I'm going to actually install the slicing software and turn the resolution up to see what it can do. IIRC the manual said the practical max was 0.10 though, I'll have to research that a bit. (The triceratops skull was 0.15.)
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden For my next print I'm going to actually install the slicing software and turn the resolution up to see what it can do. IIRC the manual said the practical max was 0.10 though, I'll have to research that a bit. (The triceratops skull was 0.15.)
If you want to create your own stuff: If you don't have a lot of experience then Tinkercad is pretty easy to begin with. If you need more advanced stuff (like the mentioned screws) then Fusion 360 has a free level for private use, I think.
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@rhywden Do you have an opinion on the software that ships with it called Slic3r?
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@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
This isn't my image, but it gives you a general idea of just how wrong things can go.
What, you mean that isn't a successfully printed Flying Spaghetti Monster?
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden Do you have an opinion on the software that ships with it called Slic3r?
I compared it to Simplify3D for which I also have a license - the Prusa Edition of Slic3r works just fine. They both have features the other doesn't have - but those are minor differences if you simply want to print something. With Simplify3D it's a bit easier to create supports and you can easily change print settings for every layer (like, temperature for example). Slic3r PE on the other hand is a bit better tuned to your printer. Effectively it's a wash from my perspective.
But do download Slic3r from Prusa directly: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/hardware-firmware-and-software-help-f64
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@rhywden Cool thanks.
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@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
With Simplify3D it's a bit easier to create supports
That might be useful. With my current software it's infuriatingly difficult to get it to place support where I want it without also placing a bunch of superfluous crap supports in irrelevant places.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@gąska said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
There isn't any. Yet.
Quick! A Blakeyrat thread! Everybody come in and piss all over it! Remember, if Blakeyrat does a thing it must be stupid and wrong, so better tell him so! Quick, you don't want to get even 3 posts of actual conversation before the bashing begins!
Just ignore the topic and move on? But then how would Blakeyrat know he's a dumb stupid dumbass? You gotta post that stuff, man.
It wasn't someone saying they don't see the use in the topic of the thread I was waiting for. It was the resulting meltdown.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@gąska said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
If anyone else bragged about buying 3D printer, I would say the same thing.
Well maybe stop being a jackass to everybody? Maybe that's the hint you should be taking here. "I'm not just a jackass to you! I'm a jackass to everybody!" "Gee, thanks, I feel much better!"
I want you to tell us with a straight face that that's not your standard MO.
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@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden Do you happen to know what would work for PLA?
Since you didn't answer my question, I looked around a bit. It looks like solvents suitable for PLA are fairly not-nice to work with — toxic, carcinogenic and/or potentially explosive. Tetrahydrofuran looks like it might be the least toxic, but it's an ether, and its tendency to form explosive peroxides with atmospheric oxygen suggests to me that a vapor bath might not be the greatest idea.
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@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
its tendency to form explosive peroxides with atmospheric oxygen
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@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden Do you happen to know what would work for PLA?
Since you didn't answer my question, I looked around a bit. It looks like solvents suitable for PLA are fairly not-nice to work with — toxic, carcinogenic and/or potentially explosive. Tetrahydrofuran looks like it might be the least toxic, but it's an ether, and its tendency to form explosive peroxides with atmospheric oxygen suggests to me that a vapor bath might not be the greatest idea.
That sounds like my kind of fun!
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@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden Do you happen to know what would work for PLA?
Since you didn't answer my question, I looked around a bit. It looks like solvents suitable for PLA are fairly not-nice to work with — toxic, carcinogenic and/or potentially explosive. Tetrahydrofuran looks like it might be the least toxic, but it's an ether, and its tendency to form explosive peroxides with atmospheric oxygen suggests to me that a vapor bath might not be the greatest idea.
That's actually kind of why I didn't answer the question ;)
Funnily enough, for a compound that so chemically stable it doesn't deal with heat very well.
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@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
With Simplify3D it's a bit easier to create supports
That might be useful. With my current software it's infuriatingly difficult to get it to place support where I want it without also placing a bunch of superfluous crap supports in irrelevant places.
I understated it a bit - with S3D it's dead simple to place supports. Basically you're painting it like a brush and the preview does a good job of highlighting where the supports will go.
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Tried printing a Locust last night. Locusts when complete look like this:
It came out... meeeh. The handle/railing thing on the front is entirely missing (looks like it broke away from the print surface at some point. There's a lot of cruft on the cockpit supports that needs to be cleaned off. Altogether not bad though. The 3D printer did a remarkably good job on those two skinny antenna.
Now I need to decide whether to print the legs and ears and try to assemble this, or give a mech with a simpler cockpit shape a go. Or maybe scale the whole thing up to 150% so the printer can do those details better... I have plenty of print bed space as you can see. Hmm.
One thing I have learned is have a trash can. (Not just a wastebasket! It needs to be solid!) around the printer at all times, because you end up with lots of little plastic bits.
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@blakeyrat Did the locust get redesigned at some point? It could just be my memory being weird, but I seem to recall the Locust torso looking very different from that, back in the 90s when I was into BattleTech.
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@masonwheeler MechWarrior Online redid all the models, because the ones in the source books were shitty.
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@blakeyrat ... and I snapped off the antenna while trying to get the support material off. (Easy to remove my ass.)
Maybe I'll start with something with a simpler shape.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@masonwheeler MechWarrior Online redid all the models, because the ones in the source books were shitty.
The Locust was also one of the Unseen, one of the 'Mechs that's original design was based off of something from another property that got disputed in the long-running Harmony Gold fiasco. A lot of the Unseen got more distinct redesigns when MWO came around when Piranha and Catalyst said enough was enough and rebuilt them so they could be used, as some of them were still iconic (like the Warhammer, IIRC)
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Ok cool whatever. All I know is they look cool in MWO.
While I'm at work, I'm going to get this guy printing the B-2 Spirit model someone mentioned up-thread. Replaced the filament with black, and it should be done-ish by the time I get home.
EDIT: oh BTW, Prusa filament refills come in re-sealable plastic bags with dissicant included, so I just put the silver filament in the bag that the black filament came out of. Solves the storage problem.
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@blakeyrat can you get a picture? failed experiments are interesting too (if not more, because people don't share them)
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@sockpuppet7 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
can you get a picture?
... of what?
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@blakeyrat I got confused, you already posted a picture
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@blakeyrat ... and I snapped off the antenna while trying to get the support material off. (Easy to remove my ass.)
I find a very small pair of wire cutters works well for removing support without disturbing the model. Something similar to this, but with a shorter "mouth." (Couldn't easily find an exact image of the one I have.)
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
While I'm at work, I'm going to get this guy printing the B-2 Spirit model someone mentioned up-thread. Replaced the filament with black, and it should be done-ish by the time I get home.
Good luck. My first B-2 print was terrible because the entire underside was covered in support structures I couldn't really get removed without destroying the model. Then I cut the STL model it in half and arranged the halves to print vertically--the plane's centerline on the build plate and the wings extending upwards. No support required at all that way, but the print always failed for me.
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@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Then I cut the STL model it in half and arranged the halves to print vertically--the plane's centerline on the build plate and the wings extending upwards.
Because I am Smarty McReallySmart I started the printer and only later looked up the other people who had printed the same model on Thingiverse, and the guy who had the by far best result also did the split in half thing. But I'd already kicked mine off, so. When I get home we'll see how well it did.
Note to self: read advice from other people who printed the model before printing the model.
@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
but the print always failed for me.
Did it fail when the wings got too thin? Did you try rotating them 90 or 45 degrees, maybe one of your printers' axis got out of alignment at high Z values? Or am I just talking nonsense.
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@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Then I cut the STL model it in half and arranged the halves to print vertically
I'm starting to think I might need to do this. I want to print a breastplate (sort of, not exactly, but good enough for the purposes of this discussion) and my available print volume is 12"x12"x24". Problem is, my torso is both higher and wider than 12 inches.
If I do cut a large model in half, how do I put it back together? Is there some specific kind of glue I would need for this? Should I open up the model in Blender, cut it, and add interlocking tabs/teeth to hold it together without glue? How is this usually done?
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@masonwheeler The MechWarrior Locust model I found has a little round knob on the main part and a matching round depression on the part you glue in. You can see it in the image above, near the widest part of the print.
You still have to glue it of course, but this helps you at least get the parts aligned correctly and presumably if your printer is precise enough you can test-fit without any problems.
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@blakeyrat Cool, thanks. What sort of glue does one usually use for this? I'm kind of learning as I go here, but I want to learn quickly, because the project I'm trying to build needs to be complete by mid-August...
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@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
hat sort of glue does one usually use for this?
I'd be interested in hearing the answer to that too. I was thinking Superglue, but I know there's some materials it dissolves.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
While I'm at work, I'm going to get this guy printing the B-2 Spirit model someone mentioned up-thread. Replaced the filament with black, and it should be done-ish by the time I get home.
Is that safe to do?
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Did it fail when the wings got too thin? Did you try rotating them 90 or 45 degrees, maybe one of your printers' axis got out of alignment at high Z values? Or am I just talking nonsense.
No, the model just wouldn't stick to the print bed very well. It was fine for about 60% of the print and then it would unstick and fall off the build plate.
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@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
What sort of glue does one usually use for this?
That would depend on the kind of plastic you're printing. For ABS, you could go to Home Depot and get whatever they have in the plumbing department for ABS DWV pipes (make sure it's for ABS, not PVC water pipes). PLA can be solvent welded with dichloromethane, but it's fairly toxic, and I don't know whether you can get your hands on it for household/hobby use. I'd imagine epoxy would work for just about anything, but if the print is glossy, you might need to sand the mating surfaces to give it something to stick to, or maybe deliberately reduce the resolution for a layer or two to make a rough surface.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
hat sort of glue does one usually use for this?
I'd be interested in hearing the answer to that too. I was thinking Superglue, but I know there's some materials it dissolves.
Superglue seems to work fine on PLA.
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@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
hat sort of glue does one usually use for this?
I'd be interested in hearing the answer to that too. I was thinking Superglue, but I know there's some materials it dissolves.
You said you have plenty of waste material, so you can easily just try it with no danger of losing anything important.
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@hardwaregeek said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
What sort of glue does one usually use for this?
That would depend on the kind of plastic you're printing. For ABS, you could go to Home Depot and get whatever they have in the plumbing department for ABS DWV pipes (make sure it's for ABS, not PVC water pipes). PLA can be solvent welded with dichloromethane, but it's fairly toxic, and I don't know whether you can get your hands on it for household/hobby use. I'd imagine epoxy would work for just about anything, but if the print is glossy, you might need to sand the mating surfaces to give it something to stick to, or maybe deliberately reduce the resolution for a layer or two to make a rough surface.
Thanks for the info. At the moment, I'm using PLA, as it's what came with the printer and seems to be "the default" for 3D printing. Toxic solvents don't sound very nice, however...
@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Superglue seems to work fine on PLA.
Yay! I think my wife actually has some already, so I wouldn't even need to go buy any. :D
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@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@blakeyrat said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
hat sort of glue does one usually use for this?
I'd be interested in hearing the answer to that too. I was thinking Superglue, but I know there's some materials it dissolves.
Superglue seems to work fine on PLA.
I second that. Superglue works fine.
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@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Superglue works fine.
Specially on human fingers
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@gurth said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
You said you have plenty of waste material, so you can easily just try it with no danger of losing anything important.
But I'd have to reach into the garbage and that'd be gross.
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@timebandit said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@rhywden said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
Superglue works fine.
Specially on human fingers
Not to mention eyeballs. I once heard Howard Tayler tell a rather horrifying story at Comic-Con about a bottle of superglue that looked a bit too much like a bottle of eyedrops.
Let's just say, it's a bit surprising that he still has the use of both eyes today.
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Hmm.
I think I might try this model:
- split in half
- printing butt-to-nose vertically
Just as an experiment in obtaining the best quality.
Obviously the printer has trouble drawing really shallow angles.
EDIT: here's the bottom side after removing the support structure:
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@blakeyrat The bottom side looks much better than mine did. I basically destroyed it trying to pull out the support structure. The topside, though, looks like something's really wrong as far as layer depth and possibly nozzle temperature. The air intakes look rather melty and the steps on the wings are unusual.
Is this PLA? What's your nozzle temperature, layer depth, and print speed? For comparison, on PLA I normally use 214° C, 0.1 - 0.2mm depth (0.2mm for large prints where the layer lines don't bother me, typically small storage boxes and the like), and 50mm/sec print speed.
This is assuming we used the same B2 model from Thingiverse, which might not be the case.
I like the partial raft under it. I almost always use a raft to help with bed adhesion, but the raft my slicer produces takes forever to print and is really wasteful of filament. Yours is much sparser, which is a good thing if it works.
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@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
I basically destroyed it trying to pull out the support structure.
You too?
I know I mentioned wire cutters earlier, but it occurs to me that the printer itself might actually be part of it. Mine has a dual extruder, so I have it print the support off a different filament from the model. This has three advantages:
- On large models, this can make the difference between eating through your whole roll or not. (Seriously. I'm actually printing one such thing right now. If I had to do it all on a single extruder, it would take more plastic than is in a single roll.)
- If they're different colors, you can trivially tell exactly where the support ends and the model begins.
- It's not the same filament, even if they're both made out of the same type of plastic, they're not exactly the same, and so they will separate (break off of each other) much more easily.
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@mott555 PLA. 215 degrees. 0.15mm layer height. I believe the print speed was 45mm/sec.
@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
This is assuming we used the same B2 model from Thingiverse, which might not be the case.
I grabbed one from there then shrunk it by 50% because it was huge.
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@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
You too?
This guy's article recommended some changes to the support settings to make it easier to detach the model from the support. I'm trying his settings out on my current print.
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@masonwheeler said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
@mott555 said in Today in Blakeyrat is always several years behind in every tech trend news...:
I basically destroyed it trying to pull out the support structure.
You too?
I know I mentioned wire cutters earlier, but it occurs to me that the printer itself might actually be part of it. Mine has a dual extruder, so I have it print the support off a different filament from the model. This has three advantages:
- On large models, this can make the difference between eating through your whole roll or not. (Seriously. I'm actually printing one such thing right now. If I had to do it all on a single extruder, it would take more plastic than is in a single roll.)
- If they're different colors, you can trivially tell exactly where the support ends and the model begins.
- It's not the same filament, even if they're both made out of the same type of plastic, they're not exactly the same, and so they will separate (break off of each other) much more easily.
If you have a dual extruder then you can use water-soluble plastics for support structures.