Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing
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NB: apologies for the twitter
Thread by @johnnyryan: "Facebook is confronting EU users a new “terms of service” dialogue that denies access until a user opt-ins to tracking for ad targeting, and […]" #GDPR #Adtech
![Thread by @johnnyryan: "Facebook is confronting EU users a new “terms of service” dialogue that denies access until a user opt-ins to tracking for ad targeting, and […]" #GDPR #Adtech](https://threadreaderapp.com/images/screenshots/thread/993827965594202112.jpg)
Thread by @johnnyryan: "Facebook is confronting EU users a new “terms of service” dialogue that denies access until a user opt-ins to trackinious other data processing purposes... These Terms refer to the “data policy” that says “we use […]" #GDPR #Adtech
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My thoughts: if Facebook either can't be arsed or can't make money without requiring users to provide this sort of consent, then I don't think there's really any controversy. I just thought it was interesting to see how they're dealing with GDPR.
However, I'm not sure if they're doing anything WRT siphoning and creating shadow profiles for people without accounts.
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Not surprised. I really should clear some of the data out of my Facebook profile at some point, since the only reason I even still have the thing is because I play a couple timewaster games on it and it's the only platform I have to contact a couple old friends.
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If Euroweenies want a Facebook, they can make their own. While they're at it, they should make their own OS, office software, credit card networks, ... basically all the shit the US provides for them, because everybody in Europe's too incompetent apparently, and then they sue about later.
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What I really want to know is why does the loading icon on some of the oneboxes look like a huge pixelated turd being flushed down the toilet. Does that represent Facebook?
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@bb36e Now I'm curious what's to be found under the "If you don't agree, there are options" link. Maybe it's the "Delete login" button?
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@blakeyrat said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
If Euroweenies want a Facebook, they can make their own. While they're at it, they should make their own OS, office software, credit card networks, ... basically all the shit the US provides for them, because everybody in Europe's too incompetent apparently, and then they sue about later.
You realize that there has been some research on this and it's not as easy as you make it out to be. We did have a fairly successful social network in Germany.
It lost to Facebook, not due to missing features or something but solely due to the networking effect.
Interconnected services such as Facebook naturally gravitate towards a monopoly.
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@blek said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
a huge pixelated turd being flushed down the toilet. Does that represent Facebook?
IMO, yes. Except maybe for the flushing part. It seems to be too big to flush, so now the toilet is clogged, and the dirty, smelly water is overflowing onto the floor, and you're desperately looking for a plunger, but you don't have one, and now the dirty water is starting to soak into the carpet in the hallway. That represents Facebook.
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@hardwaregeek said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
@blek said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
a huge pixelated turd being flushed down the toilet. Does that represent Facebook?
IMO, yes. Except maybe for the flushing part. It seems to be too big to flush, so now the toilet is clogged, and the dirty, smelly water is overflowing onto the floor, and you're desperately looking for a plunger, but you don't have one, and now the dirty water is starting to soak into the carpet in the hallway. That represents Facebook.
I quit Facebook shortly after the 2012 election. Before then, it was good for keeping in touch with friends and organizing events and stuff. But during that election, it all turned into everyone just firehosing high-pressure political diarrhea loaded with parasitic worms with no considerations towards polite discourse or factual accuracy, and I decided to get out. Sounds like it may have gotten even worse since then.
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@mott555 said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
But during that election, it all turned into everyone just firehosing high-pressure political diarrhea loaded with parasitic worms with no considerations towards polite discourse or factual accuracy, and I decided to get out. Sounds like it may have gotten even worse since then.
Soooo, just like TheDaily
then?
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@rhywden It's not even half as bad around here as my Facebook circle was around the time I quit.
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@mott555 said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
I quit Facebook shortly after the 2012 election. Before then, it was good for keeping in touch with friends and organizing events and stuff. But during that election, it all turned into everyone just firehosing high-pressure political diarrhea loaded with parasitic worms with no considerations towards polite discourse or factual accuracy, and I decided to get out. Sounds like it may have gotten even worse since then.
There is definitely a lot of that. I generally ignore it. I mostly use it for keeping in touch with extended family and martial arts related groups. I do occasionally troll one of my liberal friends on stuff that he posts, but we have the sort of relationship where we can give each other shit. I avoid that stuff with most people (aside from within some closed groups that are explicitly set up for that sort of purpose).
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@boomzilla It might be better these days if I rejoined. Most of the issues were people I knew from college who let the media convert them into thoughtless hate-filled bigots, and I've since lost touch with almost most of them.
But if I rejoined, I'd have facebook on me again. Ew. I don't want that.
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@mott555 said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
@rhywden It's not even half as bad around here as my Facebook circle was around the time I quit.
Which Circle were you in? I didn't think you were allowed to just quit.
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@hardwaregeek said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
@mott555 said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
@rhywden It's not even half as bad around here as my Facebook circle was around the time I quit.
Which Circle were you in? I didn't think you were allowed to just quit.
If I read that right, I guess I was in the Sixth Circle (heresy). I was a heretic for committing the unpardonable sin of getting laid off from my job due to factors which included ObamaCare.
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Oh, I also have a policy of never acknowledging anyone's birthday on FB. Damn, that stuff is annoying!
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@rhywden said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
You realize that there has been some research on this and it's not as easy as you make it out to be. We did have a fairly successful social network in Germany.
What was it called? bratwurstbook.co.de?
@rhywden said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
It lost to Facebook, not due to missing features or something but solely due to the networking effect.
Aw poor babies.
But why the heck does Facebook have any sizeable network effect in Germany? Only because Germans are obsessed with American celebrities and companies and constantly look them up?
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@boomzilla said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
Oh, I also have a policy of never acknowledging anyone's birthday on FB. Damn, that stuff is annoying!
I suppose it would get annoying to congratulate yourself all the time...
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@bb36e
Judging by the top half of the article (I ran out of lunch break before I ran out of article), I can kind of see the point of the companies that are running from GDPR like it was a house on fire. "So, if you collect any user data, you have to get informed consent for every little thing you do with it every single time." I mean. If you have to ask for informed consent before every contact with your lover's body, you're gonna become an incel PDQ too...
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@izzion What's funny is if they don't give consent, you can't store the fact that they didn't give consent and just have to nag them over and over. You can't even do it based on IP, because IP is considered personal information.
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@blakeyrat said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
But why the heck does Facebook have any sizeable network effect in Germany?
My guess is because there are plenty of Germans who know Americans, either online or IRL, and when some, many, or all of those Americans told them that they were using this thing called Facebook, some, many, or all of those Germans decided that it would be a good way to stay in touch with those Americans. Then other Germans joined in to stay in touch with those first Germans who were now on Facebook, and before long, bratwurstbook.co.de was seeing fewer and fewer active users, encouraging ever more of the remaining ones to also switch to Facebook.
At least the second part of that is what did the Dutch counterpart of Facebook, Hyves, in some years ago.
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@gurth said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
Then other Germans joined in to stay in touch with those first Germans who were now on Facebook
This is why I'm interested in seeing where federated networks like Mastodon, GNU Social, and Pleroma go. That said, Diaspora and Social haven't exactly been huge successes over the past decade or so...
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@izzion said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
@bb36e
Judging by the top half of the article (I ran out of lunch break before I ran out of article), I can kind of see the point of the companies that are running from GDPR like it was a house on fire. "So, if you collect any user data, you have to get informed consent for every little thing you do with it every single time." I mean. If you have to ask for informed consent before every contact with your lover's body, you're gonna become an incel PDQ too...It's not because your lover consented to sex that BDSM might suddenly be ok; the point is that you should be explicit in what you require consent for.
And note that "user consent" is only one of the reasons allowing you to keep data, for example if there's any reason the government or law could be interested then you still need to keep the data for their retention period (but no day longer). Also, if the user paid you for a service then you could still establish that as "customer data needed to fulfill the service". However, you cannot turn around and then sell that data to someone else, which is what Facebook's business model is partially based on.
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@gurth said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
the Dutch counterpart of Facebook, Hyves,
Is that the Dutch version of hives? I want that even less than I want Facebook.
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@bb36e said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
This is why I'm interested in seeing where federated networks like Mastodon, GNU Social, and Pleroma go.
Nowhere. They have one huge weakness, the same weakness that both OpenID and OAuth have and nobody in the open source community seems to recognize or fix:
- You can't move your account to another provider
Sure it's "federated" in that I can sign up with BobNet and send messages to JoeNet, but if BobNet goes out of business, there's no mechanism to move my account to JoeNet permanently, and I still end up losing all my data stored with the system.
Basically, for all practical purposes, it's still just as centralized as Twitter or Facebook.
With OpenID and OAuth you can "solve" this by letting the user use multiple logins simultaneously. But that doesn't work with social networks that store a lot of user data. You can't put all your shared images on BobNet and JoeNet simultaneously; if BobNet kicks you, you just plain get kicked.
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@bb36e said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
This is why I'm interested in seeing where federated networks like Mastodon, GNU Social, and Pleroma go.
Nowhere. Without a company to advertise and manage things, and a financial incentive for that company to get customers, products don't get to the general public.
And if that's already true of regular open source products, imagine social networks where you need 90% of the market before you can get any market.
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@bb36e said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
@gurth said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
Then other Germans joined in to stay in touch with those first Germans who were now on Facebook
This is why I'm interested in seeing where federated networks like Mastodon, GNU Social, and Pleroma go. That said, Diaspora and Social haven't exactly been huge successes over the past decade or so...
That's because it's a pure numbers game which does not scale linearly. To make it clear, let's say we have platform A and platform B. A has 100 users, B has 50.
From a linear perspective A would thus be 2 times more worthwhile than B. In reality, it's more like a logarithmic scale which makes A e.g. 10 times better. And this disparity only gets worse the more users flock to A.
Which is exactly what happened with Facebook and is also the reason why competitors don't really take off or actually die out.
@anonymous234 said in Facebook displaying EU TOS dialog denying access until user opts-in to tracking and other data processing:
And if that's already true of regular open source products, imagine social networks where you need 90% of the market before you can get any market.
Which is exactly my point.
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@anonymous234 yeah, probably. the main influxes of users seem to be news/political events causing migrations. e.g. following the news about SESTA switter grew to 70k users in about a month, which, while a drop in the bucket compared to the internet at large, is pretty surprising considering it's an alternative social network thing.
