UI Bites
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technology no longer exists.
Same way we no longer have the technology to send men to the moon, amirite?
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d_with_lightning_and_rain
NSFW thread is
The user interface bytes!
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@Zecc That one's easy enough. Mobile lusers dislike typing.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
@Zecc That one's easy enough. Mobile lusers dislike
typingscrolling a listbox.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
Mobile lusers dislike typing.
Mobile lusers are idiots. (He says as he posts from his phone. )
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Thanks Excel Online. Much useful.
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@loopback0 Why are you using Excel in the Clouds ?
Anyways, you received acorrelation ID
. Now, you just need to get the logs to find out what went wrong
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@BernieTheBernie said in UI Bites:
@loopback0 Why are you using Excel in the Clouds ?
This computer doesn't have Office installed and I was to go and get my laptop when I only wanted to do something quickly.
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@loopback0 Trying to save a few seconds costed you a few minutes.
Sometimes must be
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A date selector, in the form of 3 drop downs (month/day/year) for a field that logically and practically only accepts today's date. So each dropdown only contains a single value. And it's a required field that doesn't initialize to the only valid date.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in UI Bites:
And it's a required field that doesn't initialize to the only valid date.
That's more of a requirements instead of a development : The E-SIGN Act simply states that the fact that records/signatures/notarizations are electronic instead of on paper can't be used to refute them. It does not say anything about the other accompanying ceremonies. Out of an abundance of caution, even though a computer record can automatically include the date and do so to a deeper level of authenticity and precision, if the lawyer says "the person must sign and date the form", then the person must the one to provide the date, by an affirmative action (pick from dropdown) on their part, since otherwise some esquire-critter might go "he didn't date it, so he didn't sign it, nyeh!"
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It took Microsoft years to finally add the asterisk to Notepad's title bar when the file contains unsaved changes... And in the Windows 11 version, they took it away when they replaced the titlebar with tabs:
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@Medinoc That's what the dot in the tab is for.
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@TwelveBaud Much innovate, very dot
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@Medinoc And how does
Notepad++
behave? Dotty or asteriskly?
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@BernieTheBernie Asteriskly on the window title bar; colorly on the tab — it changes the color of the tab's icon.
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@HardwareGeek So no difference to Windows 7. At least, good apps do not need to change.
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unsaved changes...
Unsaved changes? What are those?
Oh yeah, that’s the thing caused by Adobe and Microsoft continuing to want us to manually save documents …
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Any program that modifies my on-disk file when I don't explicitly tell it to do so can go die in a fire.
Sure, keep unsaved changes in some temporary recovery file, whatever.; can sometimes be convenient (mostly if the program is buggy shit that keeps crashing). But if and when I want to actually make that change permanent, I'll pretty well tell you so. Until then, it's temporary and you keep your damn grubby hands off my pristine base state!
Auto-save is a misfeature targeted at idiots who can't keep straight what they are doing and still dream of the perfect DWIM interface. :change_my_mind.png:
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@ixvedeusi cannot into version control
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@ixvedeusi and this is why Sublime is the one true text editor.
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@Gustav Auto-save is like version control randomly committing your changes with empty commit messages whenever it feels like it, except worse because you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
Sure, I could use some version control system to work around the auto-save stupidity. That just means I have to go through the overhead of using a version control system for no benefit because in 90% of cases I wouldn't actually need it if that damn program could just stop randomly pissing over my files.
1 inb4 except of course if it does allow returning to different versions. In that case it would actually be a crappy version control system that randomly commits changes with no commit messages.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
@Gustav Auto-save is like version control randomly committing your changes with empty commit messages whenever it feels like it, except worse because you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
Sure, I could use some version control system to work around the auto-save stupidity. That just means I have to go through the overhead of using a version control system for no benefit because in 90% of cases I wouldn't actually need it if that damn program could just stop randomly pissing over my files.
1 inb4 except of course if it does allow returning to different versions. In that case it would actually be a crappy version control system that randomly commits changes with no commit messages.
In modern enterprise Microsoft Office (backed by
Sharepoint in a trenchcoatOneDrive for Business), auto-save is a version control system. Google Docs (in the browser, at least, but I assume their desktop apps are just Electron wrappers) does the same thing, where everything auto-saves and you can go through changes and revert changes reasonably granularly.So just stop worrying and let the cloud slurp all your data
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@izzion yeah I did cover the shitty version control systems that randomly commit without commit messages under my footnote 1 above.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
Sure, keep unsaved changes in some temporary recovery file, whatever.; can sometimes be convenient (mostly if
the programWindows is buggy shit that keeps crashing).It is.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
@Gustav Auto-save is like version control randomly committing your changes with empty commit messages whenever it feels like it, except worse because you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
And RAID is like backup that sometimes decides that the best way to deal with data corruption is to dutifully preserve it by overwriting the good copy. The problem with both this and the quoted statement is that RAID isn't backup and autosave isn't version control, and isn't trying to be. It's a solution for a different problem.
Sure, I could use some version control system to work around the auto-save stupidity. That just means I have to go through the overhead of using a version control system for no benefit because in 90% of cases I wouldn't actually need it if that damn program could just stop randomly pissing over my files.
It only randomly pisses over your files if you edit it in the way that makes it so. So the bigger question is, why do you piss over your own files.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
Auto-save is like version control randomly committing your changes with empty commit messages whenever it feels like it, except worse because you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
No real reason to not support infinite Undo in such situations. You just save the undo history as well. Then it doesn't matter when things are checkpointed; you can go back to the version you wanted even if the app crashes and the computer restarts in-between.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
@Gustav Auto-save is like version control randomly committing your changes with empty commit messages whenever it feels like it, except worse because you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
And RAID is like backup that sometimes decides that the best way to deal with data corruption is to dutifully preserve it by overwriting the good copy. The problem with both this and the quoted statement is that RAID isn't backup and autosave isn't version control, and isn't trying to be. It's a solution for a different problem.
Sure, I could use some version control system to work around the auto-save stupidity. That just means I have to go through the overhead of using a version control system for no benefit because in 90% of cases I wouldn't actually need it if that damn program could just stop randomly pissing over my files.
It only randomly pisses over your files if you edit it in the way that makes it so. So the bigger question is, why do you piss over your own files.
So it’s a solution to the problem of “I wish we didn’t have an undo button.”
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
[snip]
1 inb4 except of course if it does allow returning to different versions. In that case it would actually be a crappy version control system that randomly commits changes with no commit messages.
OK, it has no commit messages, but it is autosave with the ability to go back to previous versions, baked into the OS:
Give me this over having to manually save any day, especially when combined with auto-saving unnamed documents on closing the app, auto-restoring documents on re-opening the app, and auto-restoring all open apps on logging in.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
[snip]
1 inb4 except of course if it does allow returning to different versions. In that case it would actually be a crappy version control system that randomly commits changes with no commit messages.
OK, it has no commit messages, but it is autosave with the ability to go back to previous versions, baked into the OS:
Then again it randomly switches letters in the title around and the text on the bottom is almost completely garbled!
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RAID isn't backup and autosave isn't version control
You're the one who brought up version control as if that had anything to do with it though, so I figured I'd try an on-topic analogy.
It's a "solution" for a
differentnon-problem.Here, fixed that for you.
It only randomly pisses over your files if you edit it in the way that makes it so. So the bigger question is, why do you piss over your own files.
I don't though. I randomly piss over the in-memory copy of that file. Maybe I just want to see how it looks in yellow? Maybe I have another process that is watching the on-disk file for changes? Maybe I just don't want it to be marked as modified for inconsequential changes?
In case this isn't clear, I'm very happy with programs saving the temporary state of that buffer somewhere and providing a convenient means to recover it (and please pretty please also store the complete undo history!). That is indeed a useful feature. What I don't like is programs overwriting the canonical representation on disk without an explicit command.
Point is, the distinction between "temporary working state" and "persistent state" is a very valuable one to me, even in many cases where full-fledged version control would be overkill, and I'd very much like to not have it blurred.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
you can't even go back to previous revisions1.
[snip]
1 inb4 except of course if it does allow returning to different versions. In that case it would actually be a crappy version control system that randomly commits changes with no commit messages.
OK, it has no commit messages, but it is autosave with the ability to go back to previous versions, baked into the OS:
Then again it randomly switches letters in the title around and the text on the bottom is almost completely garbled!
Looks like German with a writing impediment.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
What I don't like is programs overwriting the canonical representation on disk without an explicit command.
This. Fuck you Office for making that the default for all documents until I turn it off for that document, may Lord Marcus have mercy if you forgot to do that and now people are wondering why the template file don't work no more!
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So the bigger question is, why do you piss over your own files.
Delusions of being the one in control.
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In modern enterprise Microsoft Office (backed by
Sharepoint in a trenchcoatOneDrive for Business), auto-save is a version control system. Google Docs (in the browser, at least, but I assume their desktop apps are just Electron wrappers) does the same thing, where everything auto-saves and you can go through changes and revert changes reasonably granularly.The other feature, collaborative editing, depends on the auto-save. And it's not a completely useless feature. There are uses for editing notes or a document in a meeting with multiple people filling in various bits at the same time.
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@ixvedeusi said in UI Bites:
Auto-save is a misfeature targeted at idiots who can't keep straight what they are doing and still dream of the perfect DWIM interface. :change_my_mind.png:
Autosave is an amazing work protecting feature added in the days when the majority of users were still learning how to work with personal computers. It can help keep everyone from novices who barely know they have to save to advanced users who get "in the zone" for hours from losing their work.
Capabilities have greatly improved since then, enabling things like recovery files, automatic backups, version history, and replayable documents/infinite undo. Now autosave is just a common piece of the puzzle.
Since you know enough to complain about it you should also know how to turn it off in programs where you don't want it. I don't use it much myself these days.
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and this is why Sublime is the one true text editor.
SublimeText does have enough tact to store unsaved modifications without crapping over my file. But it has the aggravating habit of discarding the undo buffer when it does, so I tend to end up having files with unsaved changes but no clue what these changes are nor if I'd actually want to keep them or not.
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Status: Ah yes, consistency.
Thanks, OneDrive!
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Uninstalling Swampy SQL Management Studio requires .NET Framework.
It even offers you to install it. But then...Stop Asian hate, goddammit!
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@Applied-Mediocrity See: Microsoft knows that Chukotka is part of Asia, the fact you reside in West Chukotka does not make a difference.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
Uninstalling Swampy SQL Management Studio requires .NET Framework.
It even offers you to install it. But then...Stop Asian hate, goddammit!
Semi-serious guess: The installation of .Net framework ends putting the system in a "requires reboot to continue" state, which the uninstaller cannot allow because it must be in a more consistent state and so rolls-back the install, but then dead-locked itself.
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@Applied-Mediocrity am I the only one who thinks that an uninstaller installing things makes no sense at all? If .NET is required, the original installer should've installed it.
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@topspin It already comes with Windows starting with 8, so I'm not sure how I managed to uninstall it so easily. It's a VPS that I wanted to clean up a bit before we stop paying for it. So I absent-mindedly removed IIS and other roles, and somehow totally fucked it up
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@Applied-Mediocrity am I the only one who thinks that an uninstaller installing things makes no sense at all? If .NET is required, the original installer should've installed it.
An uninstaller makes no sense at all. But yes, if after decades of being shown better ways MS still can't manage to make it a system component, it should at least be able to make do with what's available in the most basic installation that can run the product it's supposed to uninstall.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
It's a VPS that I wanted to clean up a bit before we stop paying for it.
.... why?
Oh, you mean before taking an archival backup perhaps?
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
VPS that I wanted to clean up a bit before we stop paying for it
Warum, kurwa? It's virtual. When you stop paying for it, it's just going to get deleted either way.
@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
Oh, you mean before taking an archival backup perhaps?
That makes kurwa no kurwa sense kurwa. Archival backup should be from the last working state.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in UI Bites:
VPS that I wanted to clean up a bit before we stop paying for it
Warum, kurwa? It's virtual. When you stop paying for it, it's just going to get deleted either way.
@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
Oh, you mean before taking an archival backup perhaps?
That makes kurwa no kurwa sense kurwa. Archival backup should be from the last working state.
Presumably to make the resultant image smaller?
There's only so much mind reading I can do before the hallucinations set in....
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@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
There's only so much mind reading I can do before the hallucinations set in....
We all know the hallucinations are permanently running.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in UI Bites:
There's only so much mind reading I can do before the hallucinations set in....
We all know the hallucinations are permanently running.
Well, sure. Endemic to the design of the system, really. But it's usually not too noticable at frist glance.