FlightAware starts using :disco: :horse: Sadness ensues
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@onyx said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:[...] but Bootstrap 4 is now out and that allows at least one more size class[...]
Yep, it's on the docket to be looked at since we're excited for BS4. However, it necessitates a switchover to SASS from LESS which is painful.
The benefits likely outweigh the pain of switching. Back in 2012 I bet on the wrong
when I picked LESS.
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@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You are a guest
Logged in
@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You are logged in but have been idle for five minutes
Reading and scrolling, hit the bottom and the next batch don't load. It may be more common if I've left the tab open and come back to the browser, but I've also encountered times when I've had to refresh multiple times in a session to get to the end of a thread.
@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Sometimes I have to wait 5+ seconds on mobile
After 30 seconds or so, I'll select all, copy, cancel, refresh the page to see if it has posted, then paste into a new reply if it hasn't. I do appreciate being able to do that rather than having the post lost if it didn't post though.
@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Are you sure clicking the topic is not just sending you to the earliest unread post? That's the behaviour when you click on a link.
Yeah. If I go to post 1 and tap the last unread toaster I'll get to the post I'd expect. Sometimes that's the last post as I was caught up on the thread.
This one seems to be most often if I've left my browser on the home page and come back to it. Chrome loads the page, presumably because of the memory being killed, but it's much quicker than a full page load and I'll see the top topics have last post times anywhere between a few hours ago and a couple of days ago.
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@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You are logged in but have been idle for five minutes
That at least explains why the Unread count stops updating for me.
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@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Button grey-out on post is a pain in my ass, I hate that. Sometimes I have to wait 5+ seconds on mobile. However if it's between having a post or having it lost (TCP vs UDP is a nice analogy) I'd rather have confirmation it was posted before discarding the composer. However, I also like instant gratification, so let me think on this today and get back to you.
I thin part of the issue here isn't so much the button goes grey, but more there's no indication anything is actually happening. Even a spinner would help, I feel
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@julianlam The problems appear to be mostly linked to when the network address of the browser is changed (which doesn't just happen for phones). There are other timeout issues too, but they're quite hard to reproduce; they might be related to the system not switching successfully back to real-time mode when the user becomes active once more (and a full refresh fixes things, which is great except if you only notice when posting).
I'm wondering if there's some sort of telemetry that could be enabled to make hunting these sorts of things easier? Though it does require increasing the network load and being able to send things from hosts which are having problems talking, a canonically tricky problem in the first placeβ¦
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@boomzilla said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You whiny retard. Whining about people not having solutions to hard problems doesn't make the problem any better or easier.
Saying the problem is hard is no excuse for not fixing or improving it.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Saying the problem is hard is no excuse for not fixing or improving it.
Of course not. Saying that is usually an explanation for why a solution hasn't been discovered yet.
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@boomzilla said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Of course not. Saying that is usually an explanation for why a solution hasn't been discovered yet.
Ok, in the mean time, there's this site called Fark.com that's solved the problem perfectly, so like I said above: just do whatever the fuck they do. Even if it means you get some dirty
userAgentgerms on you, ick, it's so grody and all my open source-y friends are going to laugh at me!
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Ok, in the mean time, there's this site called Fark.com that's solved the problem perfectly, so like I said above: just do whatever the fuck they do
What do they do? I've already told you how I solved it.
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@boomzilla said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:What do they do?
I don't know. But whatever they do works.
@boomzilla said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:I've already told you how I solved it.
I know, and I appreciate it.
But everybody else getting this ass forum shoveled at them is stuck in retardo-mode and, even worse, there's zero indication to them that a better mode even exists.
Changing site layout based on number of pixels is fine. But that's not what NodeBB's doing. NodeBB is assuming input devices based on number of pixels. And that's fucking stupid. I bet even the people who designed that moronic LESS SASS LESSYSASSY whatever shit would agree with that.
Like I said above, it's not just that it's a bug, it's that it makes zero logical sense. Why assume input device based on some completely different value that has nothing to do with input devices? Why not assume it based on the phase of the moon? You'd be roughly as accurate.
If Julian actually ever talked to his users (but of course he doesn't because he's an open source developer and fuck users), he'd hear "oh, wow, there's a preview pane? How'd you get that to appear?" from like 75% of them I wager. And probably half of those, the ones with brains, would say once they found the answer: "wait it's based on window size? Why the fuck would it be tied to that?"
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@boomzilla said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Ok, in the mean time, there's this site called Fark.com that's solved the problem perfectly, so like I said above: just do whatever the fuck they do
What do they do?
Redirect mobiles to
m.fark.com, most likely based on user agent sniffing.Not necessarily a practical solution for a forum, but the same user agent sniffing could be used to conditionally serve mobile CSS to mobiles only.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:like 75% of them I wager
I'd wager 75% is closer to the number of people who always have their browser maximised than the number who have it small enough to trigger mobile mode.
Not that I'm saying it's not a problem, but you seem to be assuming most people browse like you do
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@jaloopa Well it's like the cat in the box, we don't really know until the NodeBB developers gain some tiny inclination to talk to people and find out if their product is shitty or not. Since that'll never happen, it'll forever remain a mystery.
@jaloopa said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Not that I'm saying it's not a problem, but you seem to be assuming most people browse like you do
Even if the bug "only" affects 25% of people, that's still an assload of people and since it also gives a hugely negative first-run experience, that's easily enough to rocket it to the top of the bug priority list. Especially since they're selling this turd and thus actually losing out on cash-money revenue due to this bug.
All of which I explained to the NodeBB developers back when we adopted this software, what, 2 years ago now? And yet it's still not fixed. Not that I'm surprised; we're dealing with developers who named their forum after an implementation detail, even Atwood had better sense than that.
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@blakeyrat And BTW while I'm angry, they wouldn't even need a "preview pane" if they'd picked literally any markup language less retarded than Markdown. Derp derp derp I r open sorez devlopr letz use marksup with no waay to undersline! Derp derp derp!
Why do open source-y people love Markdown? Who told you this was good?! They were wrong!
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@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:- Button grey-out on post is a pain in my ass, I hate that. Sometimes I have to wait 5+ seconds on mobile. However if it's between having a post or having it lost (TCP vs UDP is a nice analogy) I'd rather have confirmation it was posted before discarding the composer. However, I also like instant gratification, so let me think on this today and get back to you.
Suggestion: let the red boob happen on mobile and just "collapse" the composer into the appropriate boob, replacing the β with an ο’ (possibly animated) that disappears when it's submitted. The post is already being stored in local storage, so if the browser OOMs or whatever it can recover and still retry in case of failure.
- Cached homepage,
E_NOREPRObut that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Are you sure clicking the topic is not just sending you to the earliest unread post? That's the behaviour when you click on a link.
I've had this happen on OOM session restore. Not sure what's going on, but NodeBB certainly thinks it's the current version of the list.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Especially since they're selling this turd and thus actually losing out on cash-money revenue due to this bug.
Citation needed.
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@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@jaloopa To provide some context:
- Posts not streaming in could be
- You are a guest, in which case you do not get real-time enhancements in NodeBB, OR
- You are logged in but have been idle for five minutes, in which case real-time enhancements are disabled until you are no longer idle (I believe via browser/tab focus)
- Both of these were implemented because NodeBB tended to collapse under load in high-traffic websites (think announcement from CEO of a company, etc.) with lots of anons (for the former), or in general lowered the throughput of NodeBB because lots of people left NodeBB open on their browser.
I definitely have a fair amount of trouble with threads i'm actively reading not scrolling in new posts. It seems to happen most often when I jump into the thread many posts up but it's still active and new posts that posted after I started reading the thread but before I got to the bottom just won't load in until I reload the thread. But I've had cases where I got to the end of a page and just nothing came in.
Of course, given how frequently we have websocket / Nginx connections crap out around here, it's possible that it's an Nginx problem and not something specific to NodeBB...
- Posts not streaming in could be
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@julianlam said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Cached homepage, E_NOREPRO but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Are you sure clicking the topic is not just sending you to the earliest unread post? That's the behaviour when you click on a link.
Repro on Opera mobile (which is also WebKit so...). It loads the last version of the page I saw before closing the browser. All links being out of date is not surprising in this case. Don't know if you're not sending
Expiresheaders, or it ignores it.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Personally, NodeBB feels less fluid than Discourse.
What does that even mean? That it's too solid or gaseous for your tastes?
It's like people on dating sites who describe themselves as "easy-going."
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Come on, @groaner you're like those freelance designers who don't know what it means to make something pop, sizzle, or set your eyes on fire (in a good way). Sheesh.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Derp derp derp I r open sorez devlopr letz use marksup with no waay to undersline! Derp derp derp!
<u>underlined text</u>
Just because you have to use HTML tags doesn't mean it can't be done. I personally find the tags to be more flexible, because they also allow parts of words to be modified, whereas the markup only works with whole words.Also
<b>bolded text</b>,<i>italicized text</i>,<s>struck text</s>, etc.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:I've also, despite the constant flame against it by WTDWTF, never actually encountered a Discourse bug.
We had entire threads filled with them.
Infinite scroll is also painful, because it doesn't load posts until you're right on top of them, and then immediately scroll up or down some amount, as opposed to Discourse which will load them much more eagerly making it a much smoother experience. And with the discrete-page thing, lack of good infinite scroll is even worse.
Sounds like you would have hated Discourse in 2014. There were times where quickly hitting Page Down a few times would scroll faster than the posts could load.
Oh, and there is no such thing as a "good infinite scroll."
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@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Oh, and there is no such thing as a "good infinite scroll."
Well, there were certainly times when it seemed to be trying to live up to that name, trying to scroll infinitely whether you liked it or notβ¦
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:If Julian actually ever talked to his users (but of course he doesn't because he's an open source developer and fuck users)
It amuses me that you say this even though he has been posting and replying in this very thread.
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@raceprouk said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@boomzilla said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Ok, in the mean time, there's this site called Fark.com that's solved the problem perfectly, so like I said above: just do whatever the fuck they do
What do they do?
Redirect mobiles to
m.fark.com, most likely based on user agent sniffing.Not necessarily a practical solution for a forum, but the same user agent sniffing could be used to conditionally serve mobile CSS to mobiles only.
They're two different platforms. Put a scrollable window within a scrollable pane and watch how something that's powerful with a mouse is unwieldy on mobile.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@blakeyrat And BTW while I'm angry, they wouldn't even need a "preview pane" if they'd picked literally any markup language less retarded than Markdown. Derp derp derp I r open sorez devlopr letz use marksup with no waay to undersline! Derp derp derp!
Why do open source-y people love Markdown? Who told you this was good?! They were wrong!
I completely agree on this point.
@julianlam, is there a reason you guys aren't utilizing a WYSIWYG editor? There are some great ones available under open source licenses (CKEditor, for one). I understand that switching at this point might be a huge undertaking, but not using a WYSIWYG seems like an odd design choice.
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@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Personally, NodeBB feels less fluid than Discourse.
What does that even mean? That it's too solid or gaseous for your tastes?
It's like people on dating sites who describe themselves as "easy-going."
I actually explained it perfectly in detail a few posts down from that.
@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Sounds like you would have hated Discourse in 2014. There were times where quickly hitting Page Down a few times would scroll faster than the posts could load.
Good thing I scroll with a wheel then. NodeBB's is still garbage.
@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Oh, and there is no such thing as a "good infinite scroll."
The current Discourse one is great.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:The current Discourse one is great.
Who are you really.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:I actually explained it perfectly in detail a few posts down from that.
You did. Would have been better if you started off that way.
Good thing I scroll with a wheel then. NodeBB's is still garbage.
You might want to read some of our old threads. Much of the reason we migrated to NodeBB was based on performance.
The current Discourse one is great.
I'm skeptical of this claim, but I'll see if I can track down a Status-like thread on a Discourse install and see if it's at all usable. Not even Facebook, Instagram, or Tumblr have gotten infinite scrolling right. And by "right" I mean that the scrolling works as predictably and instantaneously as on a large static page with scrollbars, such as a futaba-style imageboard.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:The current Discourse one is great.
Who are you really.
A Discourse dev, obviously
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@timebandit said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:The current Discourse one is great.
Who are you really.
A Discourse dev, obviously
"We screwed up! Can you guys please come back and do our testing again?"
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@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You might want to read some of our old threads. Much of the reason we migrated to NodeBB was based on performance.
You say that, but like I said, the chief annoyance is performance, even on small threads. Page loading is slow, thread list loading is slow, image loading is slow and fucks up the scroll, infinite scrolling is slow and fucks up the scroll. The Discourse I use every day is extremely fast.
@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:And by "right" I mean that the scrolling works as predictably and instantaneously as on a large static page with scrollbars, such as a futaba-style imageboard.
It's instant. Even if it has to use placeholders before it actually loads the post, the placeholders are placed there immediately and I never hit the end of the page and stop being able to scroll before it loads the next content. Both take a nonzero amount of time to load (although NodeBB is much slower), but Discourse feels fluid while NodeBB feels janky.
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@abarker said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:We screwed up! Can you guys please come back and do our testing again?"
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:And by "right" I mean that the scrolling works as predictably and instantaneously as on a large static page with scrollbars, such as a futaba-style imageboard.
It's instant. Even if it has to use placeholders before it actually loads the post, the placeholders are placed there immediately and I never hit the end of the page and stop being able to scroll before it loads the next content. Both take a nonzero amount of time to load (although NodeBB is much slower), but Discourse feels fluid while NodeBB feels janky.
That sounds like client-side code is generating the placeholders while it waits for the request for more content to complete. The initial page load would have to include extra info about how many posts exist (and maybe how big they are), and that data would have to be updated periodically, especially if a user is sitting at the end of a thread. I'd guess that the apparent performance difference is that NodeBB is simply waiting for more content before putting anything more on the page, besides any difference in server capabilities.
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@djls45 said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:And by "right" I mean that the scrolling works as predictably and instantaneously as on a large static page with scrollbars, such as a futaba-style imageboard.
It's instant. Even if it has to use placeholders before it actually loads the post, the placeholders are placed there immediately and I never hit the end of the page and stop being able to scroll before it loads the next content. Both take a nonzero amount of time to load (although NodeBB is much slower), but Discourse feels fluid while NodeBB feels janky.
That sounds like client-side code is generating the placeholders while it waits for the request for more content to complete. The initial page load would have to include extra info about how many posts exist (and maybe how big they are), and that data would have to be updated periodically, especially if a user is sitting at the end of a thread. I'd guess that the apparent performance difference is that NodeBB is simply waiting for more content before putting anything more on the page, besides any difference in server capabilities.
Maybe it is. But the goal is not simply to be able to display everything on the same page - it's to feel like an infinite page while scrolling. Meanwhile, time between seeing the absence of content and seeing the content is under a second in Discourse, and is a few seconds in NodeBB.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@djls45 said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:And by "right" I mean that the scrolling works as predictably and instantaneously as on a large static page with scrollbars, such as a futaba-style imageboard.
It's instant. Even if it has to use placeholders before it actually loads the post, the placeholders are placed there immediately and I never hit the end of the page and stop being able to scroll before it loads the next content. Both take a nonzero amount of time to load (although NodeBB is much slower), but Discourse feels fluid while NodeBB feels janky.
That sounds like client-side code is generating the placeholders while it waits for the request for more content to complete. The initial page load would have to include extra info about how many posts exist (and maybe how big they are), and that data would have to be updated periodically, especially if a user is sitting at the end of a thread. I'd guess that the apparent performance difference is that NodeBB is simply waiting for more content before putting anything more on the page, besides any difference in server capabilities.
Maybe it is. But the goal is not simply to be able to display everything on the same page - it's to feel like an infinite page while scrolling. Meanwhile, time between seeing the absence of content and seeing the content is under a second in Discourse, and is a few seconds in NodeBB.
You keep quoting this "a few seconds" crap. Even on mobile, in the biggest threads we have, I rarely have to wait a few seconds. About a second in the worst case scenario, but not multiple seconds unless we're being attacked by some poorly behaved spiders or spam bots.
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@abarker said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:unless we're being attacked by some poorly behaved spiders or spam bots.
Impossible. As we all know, there's no way anyone could possibly build a bot for a Javascript-based forum.
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@abarker said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@djls45 said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:And by "right" I mean that the scrolling works as predictably and instantaneously as on a large static page with scrollbars, such as a futaba-style imageboard.
It's instant. Even if it has to use placeholders before it actually loads the post, the placeholders are placed there immediately and I never hit the end of the page and stop being able to scroll before it loads the next content. Both take a nonzero amount of time to load (although NodeBB is much slower), but Discourse feels fluid while NodeBB feels janky.
That sounds like client-side code is generating the placeholders while it waits for the request for more content to complete. The initial page load would have to include extra info about how many posts exist (and maybe how big they are), and that data would have to be updated periodically, especially if a user is sitting at the end of a thread. I'd guess that the apparent performance difference is that NodeBB is simply waiting for more content before putting anything more on the page, besides any difference in server capabilities.
Maybe it is. But the goal is not simply to be able to display everything on the same page - it's to feel like an infinite page while scrolling. Meanwhile, time between seeing the absence of content and seeing the content is under a second in Discourse, and is a few seconds in NodeBB.
You keep quoting this "a few seconds" crap. Even on mobile, in the biggest threads we have, I rarely have to wait a few seconds. About a second in the worst case scenario, but not multiple seconds unless we're being attacked by some poorly behaved spiders or spam bots.
You may not see it. I see it. I don't see it on Discourse.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:but Discourse feels fluid while NodeBB feels janky.
The only fluid you're feeling is Jeff Atwood's cum.
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@pie_flavor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You say that, but like I said, the chief annoyance is performance, even on small threads. Page loading is slow, thread list loading is slow, image loading is slow and fucks up the scroll, infinite scrolling is slow and fucks up the scroll. The Discourse I use every day is extremely fast.
Thread loading here seems super snappy compared to what discourse used to be like.
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@groaner said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:What does that even mean? That it's too solid or gaseous for your tastes?
Gases are fluid
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@blakeyrat bullshit. Previewing essential for bbcode for anything remotely non trivial.
Especially if bbcodes are defined that are custom to a given site.
Also, the Fark solution is largely unsuitable for a piece of software that is designed to be downloaded and installed because it's a pain to configure correctly, so I can see why the NodeBB guys did it the way they did. There are other people in the world than you.
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@arantor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@blakeyrat bullshit. Previewing essential for bbcode for anything remotely non trivial.
Right, because WYSIWYG worked in 2008 but now, through some kind of weird space portal from the future, it no longer does. Makes sense, if you're an idiot with no memory.
@arantor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Especially if bbcodes are defined that are custom to a given site.
BTW did I ever say anything about BBCode? Where the fuck is this coming from? You having conversations with imaginary elves again?
For the record: I did not. You are having schizophrenic arguments with yourself right now.
@arantor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Also, the Fark solution is largely unsuitable for a piece of software that is designed to be downloaded and installed because it's a pain to configure correctly, so I can see why the NodeBB guys did it the way they did.
They don't give a shit if their software's usable or not?
@arantor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:There are other people in the world than you.
And NodeBB is equally broken for all of those people.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@arantor said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@blakeyrat bullshit. Previewing essential for bbcode for anything remotely non trivial.
Right, because WYSIWYG worked in 2008 but now, through some kind of weird space portal from the future, it no longer does. Makes sense, if you're an idiot with no memory.
What universe did you live in back then where FCK and TinyMCE didn't suck balls and create HTML that fucked over at least one browser?
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@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:What universe did you live in back then where FCK and TinyMCE didn't suck balls and create HTML that fucked over at least one browser?
Well if those two specific libraries had a flaw, then by all means the ENTIRE CONCEPT SHOULD BE THROWN INTO A LAKE AND IGNORED FOREVER! What brilliant logic you're using here! You should win a trophy!!!
Guys when people say "software should do X", stop replying with, "well it's slightly difficult so we shouldn't ever try". Or "we tried once but there was a bug so now we should never try again." What the fuck is wrong with you thinking that way? Stop it! Thinking like that is why software is garbage. And it certainly doesn't make me agree with you, it makes me want to punch you in the face for giving everybody the impression that software developers are lazy idiots who are ok fucking people over if it saves a few minutes of debugging.
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@blakeyrat you were the one who said JavaScript WYSIWYG worked in 2008.
And yes, it has since improved, I grant you that, a lot of which is thanks to all the browsers finally agreeing on what spec to follow for the most part.
I'm sick of this "we are all lazy" for not perfecting an open source project we aren't paid to support and have full time jobs that we DO need to pay attention to make as perfect as possible to keep food on the table and roofs over our heads. If you are so perfect and have time that most of us don't have, why don't you participate and fix the problems you are so adamant about? Because asking everyone else to fix it sounds awfully lazy to me.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:You should win a trophy!!!
Emojis are FREEEEEEEEE
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@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:you were the one who said JavaScript WYSIWYG worked in 2008.
For the record, I didn't say that. (You somehow managed to slip in the word "JavaScript".) If you're going to debate with me, please debate with me and not your insane schizo hallucinations, thank you.
@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:And yes, it has since improved,
Then why isn't NodeBB using it? It is because NodeBB is written by assholes who don't give a shit about usability? Hm! May be!
@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:I'm sick of this "we are all lazy" for not perfecting an open source project we aren't paid to support and have full time jobs that we DO need to pay attention to make as perfect as possible to keep food on the table and roofs over our heads.
Well two things here:
- NodeBB is for sale. You're not paid for it, but they are.
- I'm griping that the people in charge of the project are lazy. If you're not that person, then why the fuck do you think I'm asking you to do it? I'm just asking you to stop making excuses for them. (Especially when the excuses are so terrible.)
@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:If you are so perfect and have time that most of us don't have, why don't you participate and fix the problems you are so adamant about?
I'll quote them my rate if they're interested.
@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Because asking everyone else to fix it sounds awfully lazy to me.
The only thing I'm asking of the people in charge of the project is to take a little bit of pride in their work. To be a professional. To not be lazy. To not be jerks to their users. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.
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@blakeyrat said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:you were the one who said JavaScript WYSIWYG worked in 2008.
For the record, I didn't say that. (You somehow managed to slip in the word "JavaScript".) If you're going to debate with me, please debate with me and not your insane schizo hallucinations, thank you.
We're talking about the context of a FORUM on a WEB SITE. JavaScript is the only feasible solution, unless you want to make a horrendous Flash or Java Applet beast.
@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Because asking everyone else to fix it sounds awfully lazy to me.
The only thing I'm asking of the people in charge of the project is to take a little bit of pride in their work. To be a professional. To not be lazy. To not be jerks to their users. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.
Did you actually approach them with your complaints? Because complaining on TDWTF is about as hopeless as yelling at a cloud.
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@the_quiet_one said in FlightAware starts using
Sadness ensues:Because complaining on TDWTF is about as hopeless as yelling at a cloud.
Given @julianlam has been in several threads talking to us and responding to our criticisms (and even fixing some stuff!), it seems that yelling at clouds is more useful than you make it sound.
