Someone poked Blakey about Git again
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@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
LibGit2 is not a C API for Git.
True. It isn't complete and while the intention was to make it part of git and use it there, it remained separate project.
@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Think of stuff like pre-commit hooks-- how do you express that in an API? Would it even be possible? Highly unlikely.
Yes, it is. For example TFS has them as .NET assemblies. I doubt many people would call that approach simpler though. The advantage of git, and most other version control systems, approach to have them as executables is that the administrator can write them in any tools they like.
@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
LibGit2 doesn't even slightly attempt to handle those things. So it never will, and possibly never can, be complete.
Why can't it? It can call the hooks just like anything else. The hooks may still need another implementation of git to run, but that is up to the author of the hooks.
@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
The problem they're solving with this moronic "plumbing" and "porcelain" distinction is a problem that everybody else solved 20 years ago in a far better way.
Care to explain how everybody else solved it?
There is a huge advantage to executable commands: every general-purpose programming language and environment can execute a process, pass it some input and read some output. It is one of the most basic interfaces of the operating system. So when you have a process with reasonably parseable output, you can use it relatively easily from anything. If you have an API, binding it to each language tends to be quite a lot of effort. Windows have COM, which is reasonably universal; but it is not portable to other operating systems. Executing processes is.
@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
The fact that pre-commit hooks simply do not work on a lot of tools is, what, by design?
Definitely not by design. There is nothing in the design that would make it impossible.
@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
How many people actually using Git chose Git for themselves? Percentage-wise, very few.
Most of them, probably. Have you seen what happens in a project that uses Subversion, or TFS VC, or something like that? Half of the programmers promptly start using
git-svn
,git-tfs
orgit-whatever
, just because they want to use the Git features that the other version control systems simply don't have.@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Oh wait, WHAT DESIGN!? The incompetent dumbshits who made Git would have had to actually have a design in the first place, and it's obvious they didn't.
The core does have a reasonable design. But the interface is certainly far from consistent. It's grown in a very ad-hoc manner.
It is also reason for the success of the project that it did. Because, you know, worse actually is, often, indeed better. Because the developers didn't spend much time thinking about elegant, consistent UI design and simply slapped in every feature they came up with and had a use-case for, they actually have the features. The other control systems have consistent interfaces, but not the feature. In the end most users prefer having the features.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I found it a pain in the ass at first, but now I find my workflow is incredibly easy, because I got to grips with its bizarre idiosyncracies.
Is it possible to experience Stockholm syndrome with software? If so, you have it.
You very rarely see an interface that is both easy to understand and powerful. If you want power, you need to get to grips with bizarre idiosyncracies basically anywhere. But the power is often worth it.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
How many people actually using Git chose Git for themselves? Percentage-wise, very few.
Most of them, probably.
In fact, people who before wanted GUI for everything often switch to command-line once they get to grips with Git. Because nobody managed to come with a GUI that would give you the power the command-line interface does, even if it takes learning a bunch of inconsistent commands. And it's not like people didn't try. There are many GUIs for Git. It is that for many of the advanced operations, creating a GUI is simply hard.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Have you seen what happens in a project that uses Subversion, or TFS VC, or something like that?
Every place I've worked that used TFS or subversion, what happened is that everybody used TortoiseSVN or Visual Studio.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
In fact, people who before wanted GUI for everything often switch to command-line once they get to grips with Git. Because nobody managed to come with a GUI that would give you the power the command-line interface does, even if it takes learning a bunch of inconsistent commands.
And yet, MS managed to create a TFS UI that exposes the full power of TFS. Similarly, Tortoise has managed the same for both SVN and Mercurial. Therefore, I must conclude that the only reason no-one's done the safe for Git is either because Git is needlessly complicated, or people are lazy.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
TFS UI that exposes the full power of TFS
Because it is rather small.
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Tortoise has managed the same for both SVN
That power isn't any greater.
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
and Mercurial
No, not really. In mercurial, any greater power only comes from plugins and those are not covered.
By the way, TortoiseGit covers for Git what TortoiseHg covers for Hg.
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Therefore, I must conclude that the only reason no-one's done the safe for Git is either because Git is needlessly complicated
It is complicated. It is not needless though.
For Joe Random Developer it might be needless. Those who only need to update and commit and call it a day don't need any of that complexity and risk unnecessarily running into it. But once you start using local branches and rewrite commits to make them easier to review or to publish some bits while other bits are in progress, any other VCS will quickly leave you high and dry. And note that even if nobody uses all the features, or even most of them, everybody uses different subset, so all the features still need to be there.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
And note that even if nobody uses all the features, or even most of them, everybody uses different subset, so all the features still need to be there.
QFFT. Applies to many other applications as well, especially those used by “power users”.
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@Bulb OK, so that means there's no good Git GUI because people are lazy
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Is it possible to experience Stockholm syndrome with software? If so, you have it.
I feel the same way my steering wheel and manual shift gearbox. It took me literally months to get to grips with that. And yet ... somehow I now seem to get by.
I guess I have Stockholm Syndrome for driving a car, too.
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I feel the same way my steering wheel and manual shift gearbox.
Seriously? You're comparing learning a manual transmission with learning Git? Are you really that desperate to defend Git that you'd stoop to such ridiculous comparisons?
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Bulb OK, so that means there's no good Git GUI because people are lazy
Um, not exactly.
I would rather say that it is because the Git core developers are maintainers and power users, so they churn advanced features, but since they are used to shell, they don't write any Guis for them. But the people who write Guis are not power users, so they don't either know or care to add the advanced features.
And, in a typical example of good being enemy of the perfect, anybody who becomes a power user learns the command-line and it becomes good enough for them that they lose interest in wrapping it in a Gui.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I feel the same way my steering wheel and manual shift gearbox.
Seriously? You're comparing learning a manual transmission with learning Git? Are you really that desperate to defend Git that you'd stoop to such ridiculous comparisons?
Everyone loves car analogies.
Car analogies are the Rolls Royce of analogies.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I would rather say that it is because the Git core developers are maintainers and power users, so they churn advanced features, but since they are used to shell, they don't write any Guis for them.
In other words, they're more interested in shiny and their own needs than usability and the needs of others.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
OK, so that means there's no good Git GUI
Do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior, IntelliJ?
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You're comparing learning a manual transmission with learning Git?
Yes. I am comparing them. At first its weird and unintuitive, and feels like nothing you've done before, and some kind of weird abstraction leak from the implementation to (all of which is true).
But after a while, despite all those impressions, it becomes really very easy to do all the things that you regularly have to do, and you come to appreciate how powerful the whole thing is.
You also have to be aware that if you do something stupid, or without understanding what you're doing, you're likely to end up with a hunk of bent garbage, and possibly fatalities, but you look past this because there is literally nothing else in the world that gives you quite that much power and freedom.
So yes, I am comparing them. And I'm backing that comparison up with reasoning. They're not exactly the same - otherwise it wouldn't be an analogy - but the analogy is actually pretty strong.
Now, tell me why you think I'm wrong. Or, not. Whatever.
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Yes. I am comparing them. At first its weird and unintuitive, and feels like nothing you've done before, and some kind of weird abstraction leak from the implementation to (all of which is true).
Press one pedal to open the throttle, press another to open the clutch. Seems pretty intuitive to me. As for using a lever to select a gear, that's pretty intuitive too, especially since the gears are laid out in a simple and intuitive manner.
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You also have to be aware that if you do something stupid, or without understanding what you're doing, you're likely to end up with a hunk of bent garbage, and possibly fatalities, but you look past this because there is literally nothing else in the world that gives you quite that much power and freedom.
Are you saying this is unique to manual transmission? Is it really impossible to crash when driving an automatic?
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
They're not exactly the same - otherwise it wouldn't be an analogy - but the analogy is actually pretty strong.
The analogy is bollocks, and you know it.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
In other words, they're more interested in shiny and their own needs
Yes. As I explained very carefully earlier - they're writing this software for their needs (and more importantly their notion of usability).
Not yours. Not mine. They owe us nothing. We are entitled to nothing from them.
On the plus side, if you don't like their choices, you get a full refund.
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
So yes, I am comparing them
if Git was a car, three gears would be on the gearstick, two would be from opening the sunroof and finding a stick of celery there that you then poke into a celery hole that was originally a cup holder. Reverse would mean reaching down while driving, unscrewing the accelerator pedal and attaching a different pedal that moved up instead of down. Steering would change from turning the wheel to adjusting your seat if you press the wrong button on the radio. Pressing the button again would not change this back, but would pop open the boot. There would be no spare wheel because you shouldn't need to rely on such crutches. There would be a very detailed manual but it would require you to understand the internal combustion engine, the chemistry behind oxidation and the quantum mechanical makeup of hydrocarbons before you could get to turning on the ignition. The seat would also have spikes that cut your arse up every time you sit in it but dedicated GitCar fans would insist that the spikes are absolutely necessary and honestly you get used to them once the scar tissue numbs the feeling
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Yes. I am comparing them. At first its weird and unintuitive, and feels like nothing you've done before, and some kind of weird abstraction leak from the implementation to (all of which is true).
Press one pedal to open the throttle, press another to open the clutch. Seems pretty intuitive to me. As for using a lever to select a gear, that's pretty intuitive too, especially since the gears are laid out in a simple and intuitive manner.
So why does the gas pedal only work sometimes? Only when the clutch is engaged? Why?
Why can't I move the gear stick around when the clutch is engaged? Why can't everything just work when either the clutch is engaged or disengaged, so we don't have to deal with this bullshit?
And what does any of this have to do with me driving from point A to point B? I just need this damn car to move when I tell it to
You can fumble through life not understanding how the world works, and have a bad time when fantasy meets reality, or you can learn how to work with what you've got. Same with cars, same with git
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
As I explained very carefully earlier - they're writing this software for their needs (and more importantly their notion of usability).
If they didn't intend for Git to be used outside of their little group, why is it available to the public?
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You can fumble through life not understanding how the world works, and have a bad time when fantasy meets reality, or you can learn how to work with what you've got. Same with cars, same with git
Cars have been made easy to use. Git has not. Please explain why this is an excusable situation.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You can fumble through life not understanding how the world works, and have a bad time when fantasy meets reality, or you can learn how to work with what you've got. Same with cars, same with git
Cars have been made easy to use. Git has not. Please explain why this is an excusable situation.
Git is easy to use, once you figure out what it does.
What git doesn't do is source control, or whatever the hell everyone seems to think it does. It does one thing and one thing only: git. Any application to source control should be seen as a side effect of what git actually doing, which is git. Once you accept that, you can start to learn how git may be used to do source control
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Once you accept that, you can start to learn how git may be used to do source control
So you have a Kiwi car that doesn't drive nice until you learn how it kiwi's. Once you master the Kiwi it will turn out to drive perfectly.
Uh ... yeah, sure ... but let's return to usability shall we ...
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
What git doesn't do is source control
Congratulations: you've proven you haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
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@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Congratulations: you've proven you haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
I think your detector may be on the fritz again. Or maybe I just looked at that post and decided it was so stupid there's no way it could be serious
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@Jaloopa said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I think your detector may be on the fritz again.
Again? Man, I really need to find a new supplier...
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@Luhmann said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Once you accept that, you can start to learn how git may be used to do source control
So you have a Kiwi car that doesn't drive nice until you learn how it kiwi's. Once you master the Kiwi it will turn out to drive perfectly.
Uh ... yeah, sure ... but let's return to usability shall we ...
I don't think I've said git's usability was good. There are things in git that make absolutely no sense in a source control tool, that you must learn to deal with in order to use git properly.
As a source control tool, it can be unintuitive and arcane. But it does work and lets me do what I want, much easier than any other tool I've used
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@Jaloopa said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Congratulations: you've proven you haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
I think your detector may be on the fritz again. Or maybe I just looked at that post and decided it was so stupid there's no way it could be serious
Did you know that even after you run
git commit
to create a snapshot of some data, it is possible to lose that snapshot through normal usage of git without running into any bugs? And that's considered working as designed? Name any other "source control tool" that does this
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
without running into any bugs
Apart from the bug that your checkin has just been erased?
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@Jaloopa said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
without running into any bugs
Apart from the bug that your checkin has just been erased?
I just said that this behaviour is as designed and therefore not a bug
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@asdf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior, IntelliJ?
Heretic!
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@cark
I'll let Jeff answer this one:
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Did you know that even after you run
git commit
to create a snapshot of some data, it is possible to lose that snapshot through normal usage of git without running into any bugs? And that's considered working as designed? Name any other "source control tool" that does thisI'm curious how this would happen, at least without someone doing something which they ought to know is trouble (such as force-pushing a branch).
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@Luhmann Here's another explanation: it's not a bug because it's not designed to be do source control: It's designed to do git
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@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Did you know that even after you run
git commit
to create a snapshot of some data, it is possible to lose that snapshot through normal usage of git without running into any bugs? And that's considered working as designed? Name any other "source control tool" that does thisI'm curious how this would happen, at least without someone doing something which they ought to know is trouble (such as force-pushing a branch).
"Whn I do
rm -rf /*
it dlts my cod!"
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@dkf Rebase. I do it like 20 times a day
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@dkf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@asdf said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior, IntelliJ?
Heretic!
Even if you have an onion on your belt and prefer Eclipse, you'll have to admit that IntelliJ's Git UI is pretty awesome.
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@ben_lubar said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
my cod
the fish or the game?
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@Luhmann said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@ben_lubar said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
my cod
the fish or the game?
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@ben_lubar
At least a ninja has e's ...
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Rebase.
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@Jaloopa said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@RaceProUK said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Congratulations: you've proven you haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
I think your detector may be on the fritz again. Or maybe I just looked at that post and decided it was so stupid there's no way it could be serious
Did you know that even after you run
git commit
to create a snapshot of some data, it is possible to lose that snapshot through normal usage of git without running into any bugs? And that's considered working as designed? Name any other "source control tool" that does thisDepends on the boundaries of "normal usage of ToolX". If "
p4 obliterate
" is considered "normal usage", then you can do it with Perforce. Personally, I wouldn't call that particular command normal. Occasionally useful, but definitely not to be used even slightly often.
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@cark said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
@dkf Rebase. I do it like 20 times a day
ClearCase has a thing called rebase, and it makes a sort of sense ("I merged that point on the parent into this branch, so I"ll just say that the branch is based on that point instead of the original origin, thanks."), but it has exactly zero resemblance to git's concept of rebase.
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I make something for myself and give a copy away to you.
The whole equation changes when people are forced to use it as a condition of employment.
Git developers know that most of their users are forced to use it as a condition of employment, unless they're even dumber than I thought. That means their continued refusal to improve the product is utter hostility towards their own users. Which, again, if they were half-decent developers they'd want to do regardless just for the sake of their own sense of professionalism.
Giving away something that's a badly-written unusable piece of shit isn't a "gift". Hey I got you a gift, gwowen it's a flaming bag of dog shit on your doorstep. What a lovely gift I got you. You can't complain about me because my gift is so generous.
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Git is for human beings too.
Unless the human being has difficulties using a CLI, then fuck them. What a great attitude: "if you have a disability, FUCK YOU!" That's literally illegal in most industries, but here in the cesspool that is IT, people like you cheer it on.
No, Git is not for human beings. Git is for an incredibly tiny subset of human beings, and the people responsible for it do not give a shit that most people can't use it,, or can't easily use it. That's not the same thing.
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I use git everyday. I found it a pain in the ass at first, but now I find my workflow is incredibly easy, because I got to grips with its bizarre idiosyncracies.
Guess what? I use Git every day too. It's just as much a piece of shit now as it was the day I was introduced to it, and still roundly deserving of my criticism.
I mean Jesus, read that thing you just wrote back to yourself. You're basically just saying "yeah it's a shitty product, but I have Stockholm Syndrome". Wow. What a great endorsement.
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You don't have to agree with them,
Do you think I do? What have you been reading?
@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
but every now and again you may wish to consider the option that their opinions are also valid.
I have considered that; they aren't.
The Git developers have build a government building that everybody's required to enter to pay their taxes, but they neglected to put in a wheelchair ramp. Then they're standing in the windows screaming at the guy outside in the wheelchair, "fuck you! We hate you! Fuck you!" They built this abomination a solid 50 years after every person in society thoroughly agreed putting wheelchair ramps on every building is a good idea. Most people file in to pay their taxes, but it's certainly not pleasant for them and nobody likes it much.
Then there's you. You're outside on the sidewalk bowing down before the assholes in the windows, we love you master! Thank you for this gift, master! Let me suck all your cocks!
That's what Git is.
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but every now and again you may wish to consider the option that their opinions are also valid.
I have considered that; they aren't.
And we're done here. Beyond parody.
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@blakeyrat said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Then there's you. You're outside on the sidewalk bowing down before the assholes in the windows, we love you master! Thank you for this gift, master! Let me suck all your cocks!
Good Lord, your post is such an embarrassing collection of strawmen, raging incoherently against things that bear no resemblance to anything I said. At this point, you've essentially debased yourself to the point of a 12 year-old shouting swearwods on XBox Live.
Get some fresh air, find a job you don't hate, and try not to be such an asshole so much of the time.
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
And we're done here.
three minutes later, @gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
more stuff
Done indeed.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
There is a huge advantage to executable commands: every general-purpose programming language and environment can execute a process, pass it some input and read some output.
They all can call into shared libraries, too.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
So when you have a process with reasonably parseable output, you can use it relatively easily from anything.
So everyone using Git from the CLI is using it "relatively easily"? You're already off in la-la-land. You're so far away from reality, you can't even recognize it anymore. (Relative to what? Disarming nuclear weapons?)
Look, it's simple:
Human interfaces - need to change and evolve as to make the product better over time. I don't even care that the CLI is a shitty choice for a human interface, the most important fact here is that UI needs to evolve. If Git has a shortcoming or difficulty or confusion, the command should change to fix the problem.
Programming interfaces - Need to stay rock-solid forever to avoid breaking client applications.
Those two needs are MUTUALLY-EXCLUSIVE. There is no way to write a single interface that can handle both cases. And, again: if Linus Torvalds thinks there is, then we're back to he is a terrible software developer and in any just universe he'd be living in an alleyway in a cardboard box.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
If you have an API, binding it to each language tends to be quite a lot of effort. Windows have COM, which is reasonably universal; but it is not portable to other operating systems. Executing processes is.
Windows has COM and WSH. Apple has AppleEvents or whatever it's called now (Automator?).
It's not our problem that the open source world is so shitty it's never come up with an equivalent easy-to-use scripting interface for its own use. "Gee, Linux is really shitty, so let's port the shittiest option to those non-shitty OSes because shit is all we have!" Maybe a practical decision, but not one that's going to endear me to you especially when I'm forced to use your shitty software as a condition of employment.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Half of the programmers promptly start using git-svn, git-tfs or git-whatever, just because they want to use the Git features that the other version control systems simply don't have.
There's one feature Git has that other source control projects do not: you can work offline. (And that's not even true for TFS-- TFS 2013 had that.)
There's about a half-dozen features SVN, TFS, etc have that Git does not. Many of those features are "it's not a wide-awake nightmare to use".
I hate to break this to you, but programmers are fucking stupid. They follow fads, they don't make practical decisions. The few of us who are resistant to fads have to suffer.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Because the developers didn't spend much time thinking about elegant, consistent UI design and simply slapped in every feature they came up with and had a use-case for, they actually have the features.
Oh, so then I can lock a file so other people can't stomp over my changes to a binary file like in TFS and Subversion, right? It must have that feature, since you're here saying it has all the features. What about the feature were I can download just a tiny subset of the entire repository? That was really handy when making Skyrim mods. Surely Git has that feature, since you're in here saying it has all the features.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
The other control systems have consistent interfaces, but not the feature. In the end most users prefer having the features.
THEY HAVE MORE FEATURES THAN GIT.
Are you confusing the word "feature" with the word "confusion" or perhaps "annoyance"?
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
You very rarely see an interface that is both easy to understand and powerful. If you want power, you need to get to grips with bizarre idiosyncracies basically anywhere. But the power is often worth it.
"Easy to understand" is like step five. Let's go to step fucking ONE: "accessible by those with disabilities". At least.
You guys in here defending the building without the wheelchair ramp are assholes. There's really no other way to put it. What's wrong with you?
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
If you want power, you need to get to grips with bizarre idiosyncracies basically anywhere. But the power is often worth it.
In any case, your premise is false. There's only one factor that ties in to how usable a program is: how much effort was put into making it usable. "Power" is not a factor. That's why Photoshop is a million times more usable than GIMP, for example. In fact, Photoshop which is more powerful than GIMP is also significantly more usable. How does your dumb little theory account for that?
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
In fact, people who before wanted GUI for everything often switch to command-line once they get to grips with Git.
Yeah; they have to. Git's a piece of shit. That's kind of what we're discussing here.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
Because nobody managed to come with a GUI that would give you the power the command-line interface does, even if it takes learning a bunch of inconsistent commands.
Except some people are incapable of using a CLI interface, just as some people are incapable of climbing stairs. And you're being the world's biggest asshole to those people. Stop it. It's inexcusable. It's inexcusable for the Git developers to have an inaccessible product in 2017, and it's certainly inexcusable for you to defend them for it.
@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
And it's not like people didn't try. There are many GUIs for Git. It is that for many of the advanced operations, creating a GUI is simply hard.
Creating a GUI is hard.
Creating a GUI for Git is even harder, because Git itself does fucking nothing to help you along and it does a lot that can sabotage your product. Even when they "work", they don't work-- for example, Git never gives machine-parseable errors, so a lot of tools just throw up their arms and give up and show a text box with whatever Git told them.
BTW slightly off-topic, but can I point out my favorite open source attitude at play here? "Solving the problem is slightly difficult, so it's understandable and even laudable that they didn't even fucking try!"
Other than our shitty IT industry, what other industry has an attitude like that? It's disgusting. Its honestly and truly disgusting. We should be celebrating the people who put in the work and solve the hard problems, not the lazy fuckers who weasel-out of them.
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@Bulb said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
For Joe Random Developer it might be needless. Those who only need to update and commit and call it a day don't need any of that complexity and risk unnecessarily running into it.
... and yet they're exposed to it anyway.
Wow! It's almost as if you admit it's a shitty product right here, and yet somehow still inexplicably are defending it.
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@gwowen said in Big list of software that cannot handle spaces or accents in paths:
I feel the same way my steering wheel and manual shift gearbox. It took me literally months to get to grips with that. And yet ... somehow I now seem to get by.
I guess I have Stockholm Syndrome for driving a car, too.Manual gearbox, ok. But... steering wheel? It took you months to learn a steering wheel?
Look, buddy. If Git were as simple and accessible as a steering wheel (and, hell, a manual gearbox for that matter!) nobody would be having this discussion.