More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@mott555 Meanwhile, the rest of us live in the real world.
Now imagine that when I say imagine these things, I'm relating events that have actually occurred in the real world and am expecting the reader to have enough intelligence to understand I'm wanting to them to try to imagine events that happened to someone else.
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@mott555 People could try to imagine those things, or they could just try to reproduce them. Which interestingly enough, no one seems to be able to do. Fascinating.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I saw that all the time when I had 8.1.
For an HD version, here's my current lock screen for Windows 8.1:
Prior to installing updates (though Windows knew there were a ton, because I last started this particular VM in march):
Now that Updates are finished (and our forced reboot automatically scheduled:
Lets check again:
Doh!
Oh, now this is special. Apparently those special drop-downs don't accept keyboard input, so what do you think happens when I try typing a better time? If you guessed "Search the control panel while still keeping the dropdown apparently open", you'd be right!
Filed under: Ew, Remote Desktop within Remote Desktop is just... ew.
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@Jaloopa it's unhygienic to touch other dude's equipment, besides, I would raise an issue with corporate HR and security, about industrial espionage and shit.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
If I do that, it'll be 95°F in my apartment by the time I get home from work
Well, turn CPU throttling or whatever it's called back on. There's no good reason to leave the cores at max speed all day long when you're not doing anything.
Or I guess you could rig an exhaust duct to dump all the hot air outside.
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@cartman82 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
No. How often does that happen?
Beats me, but if it does, you're in the same boat as if the computer had rebooted, right?
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@dcon said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
It wasn't a matter of automatically applying for me.
Ah. For me, it applied the update, wanted to reboot, then did the post-reboot part of the update, which failed, rolled back, and rebooted into Windows, where it noticed it had an unapplied update, so it rebooted again, started to do the post-reboot part of the update, failed, etc. Each cycle took like 20 minutes, and accomplished literally nothing.
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@Tsaukpaetra I just noticed also, that apparently the profile picture is all circle-ified in Windows 10. Nice.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Imagine that you're about to host a webinar for a bunch of prospective customers, and your PC reboots halfway into the presentation, taking long enough that everyone drops off the call because your PC is stuck doing updates without giving you any forewarning or chance to delay until afterwards. Now you've lost customers. Not good.
If that was a likely scenario I'd manually check updates beforehand, duh.
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@FrostCat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Ah. For me, it applied the update, wanted to reboot, then did the post-reboot part of the update, which failed, rolled back, and rebooted into Windows, where it noticed it had an unapplied update, so it rebooted again, started to do the post-reboot part of the update, failed, etc. Each cycle took like 20 minutes, and accomplished literally nothing.
And this is acceptable ?
My desktop is running Debian stable. Here is the procedure to upgrade from 7 to 8.
- Apply all available update for v.7
- Switch repos to v.8 (basically, replace the word "wheezy" with "jessie"
- Do apt-get update
- Do apt-get upgrade
- Do apt-get dist-upgrade
- reboot
Voilà ! You are now running Debian 8.
I've done the upgrade like that since Debian 5 and there was never a problem.
Honest question : are the Debian dev freakin geniuses or is it MS update that sucks ?
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And this is acceptable ?
Duh, no. After the fact, I found out it was a known busted update. Those happen every few years.
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@TimeBandit Windows is more complicated because you cannot replace files in use.
I'm on ubuntu, so you'd think I don't even need too know that procedure cause it has a GUI. But luckily I do - During the 16.04 upgrade on my desktop x.org crashed in the dist-upgrade step and took down the upgrade process with it. When the network doesn't work after reboot, you need to know what you're doing.
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@PleegWat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
When the network doesn't work after reboot, you need to know what you're doing.
I think that's sound advice for almost any modern OS...
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@PleegWat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit Windows is more complicated because you cannot replace files in use.
That makes me...
@PleegWat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I'm on ubuntu, so you'd think I don't even need too know that procedure cause it has a GUI. But luckily I do - During the 16.04 upgrade on my desktop x.org crashed in the dist-upgrade step and took down the upgrade process with it. When the network doesn't work after reboot, you need to know what you're doing.
At least, you can always fix it. While for some other OS, you just format / re-install.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
While for some other OS, you just format / re-install.
Little chance of that with me and linux. If worst comes to worst, I could boot from USB and chroot in.
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@Tsaukpaetra My experience is the same.
Windows 8/8.1 showed the yellow warning, replaced the 'reboot' command with 'apply updates and reboot', two days later the 'shutdown' command also with 'apply updates and shutdown' and if you wouldn't reboot after that, show a dialog box urging to reboot immediately. Quite a decent system, I think.
Windows 10 seems to give a notification popup, and if you click it you can select the reboot time (within the next 24h) and that's it. Like setting a hidden time bomb. No text on the login screen, no changes in the shutdown options, not even a warning just before rebooting. Btw. I have Windows 10 Pro.
Maybe something went wrong during the installation. But then it seems to happen with quite some people. (Just like there were a lot of complaints of people whose profile folder turned read-only after upgrading to Windows 10, also something where MS didn't offer any official explanation or solution.) It makes Windows 10 look unpolished, fragile, untrustworthy.
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@FrostCat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Beats me, but if it does, you're in the same boat as if the computer had rebooted, right?
Yes. And if there's a nuclear war and civilization crumbles, all your offsite backups will be worth squat, so why bother?
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@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
no changes in the shutdown options
In the initial win10 release, yes. They added it back in at some point, I think in the first big update, and now you get 'install and reboot' and 'install and shutdown' again.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
is it MS update that sucks ?
Well, that's true anyway. For some reason, the updater appears to be the largest single consumer of power on most people's systems. Taking ages to decide on whether to update when comparable (from a customer perspective) updaters on other operating systems are much quicker, that's definitely sucky.
There might be other ways in which things suck, but the sucking of msupdate is proven.
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@cartman82 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
nuclear war
Huh. I wonder if anyone who's sane considers "power outage" and "nuclear war" to be even in the same state, as far as equivalence of likelihood is concerned.
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@dkf said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Taking ages to decide on whether to update when comparable
IKR? Like, What are you doing even? Is it that difficult to include some kind of tree that says things like "If you have this, you need that" and "This supersedes that, so if you need this, don't install that"
I've always wondered why I had to apply all these updates before doing a Service pack. Isn't the point of the service pack to wrap all the previous updates into one big one, negating the need to install them individually beforehand?
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@PleegWat Ah ok. To be honest I've pretty much stopped using Windows 10 quite soon after it came out. Once it woke up my computer at night just to reboot for updates; once I set the timer to something like 4pm to see what happens, forgot about it and got the reboot as a time bomb without warning while doing something. All of that (plus the sluggishness after waking up because of things like antivirus, anti-malware, anti-phishing, document indexing) annoyed me enough that I switched to something different for main use, already before the big update.
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@Magus said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@mott555 People could try to imagine those things, or they could just try to reproduce them. Which interestingly enough, no one seems to be able to do. Fascinating.
There's a repro in the OP, doofus.
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@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Once it woke up my computer at night just to reboot for updates;
That's what it's supposed to do.
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
once I set the timer to something like 4pm to see what happens,
Did it reboot at 4 PM?
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
forgot about it and got the reboot as a time bomb without warning while doing something.
HOLY SHIT how did I predict that would happen.
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
antivirus, anti-malware, anti-phishing, document indexing
The only one of those I use is document indexing. The rest, the Windows 10 built-in stuff handles fine now.
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@FrostCat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Imagine that you're about to host a webinar for a bunch of prospective customers, and your PC reboots halfway into the presentation, taking long enough that everyone drops off the call because your PC is stuck doing updates without giving you any forewarning or chance to delay until afterwards. Now you've lost customers. Not good.
If that was a likely scenario I'd manually check updates beforehand, duh.
Well yeah, but if you're a sales guy who spends 3 days of the week flying or driving everywhere you might not have time to sit down and go through all the updates on your laptop before you need to use it.
If the first step of using your computer is "Rush to do Windows Updates (which by the way they hide the 'DO IT NOW' button so it's hard to run them intentionally) so they don't screw me later," then there's something very wrong.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
If the first step of using your computer is "Rush to do Windows Updates (which by the way they hide the 'DO IT NOW' button so it's hard to run them intentionally) so they don't screw me later," then there's something very wrong.
Fortunately, I'm the kind of person where Windows Update works, so I don't have to worry about it.
Also, not giving presentations helps.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
If the first step of using your computer is "
Rush to do Windows Updates (which by the way they hide the 'DO IT NOW' button so it's hard to run them intentionally) so they don't screw me laterReboot it just in case Windows has it scheduled," then there's something very wrong.FTFA. Someone mentioned they reboot at the beginning of every day, just to spite this problem.
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@blakeyrat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Once it woke up my computer at night just to reboot for updates;
That's what it's supposed to do.
It's annoying, because it doesn't configure the BIOS/EFI/... to boot back into Windows, so it might reboot into another OS which doesn't put the computer back to sleep again.
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
once I set the timer to something like 4pm to see what happens,
Did it reboot at 4 PM?
Yes, of course.
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
forgot about it and got the reboot as a time bomb without warning while doing something.
HOLY SHIT how did I predict that would happen.
Your prediction abilities are not interesting.
It is not a 'special snowflake' use case. It is not very unlogical that you think you won't use the computer at time X, but then in the end do use it at that time. Not everyone's daily activity pattern is cast in concrete.
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
antivirus, anti-malware, anti-phishing, document indexing
The only one of those I use is document indexing. The rest, the Windows 10 built-in stuff handles fine now.
The built-in Windows ones also take resources. The background installation of updates too. And the software from IBM that my bank wants you to install is also really slow when it needs to update itself (i.e. every day).
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@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
The built-in Windows ones also take resources.
This. Windows Defender can actually sometimes step on Windows Update's toes while it's doing the updates.
I mean, come on, you supposedly downloaded the update from a secure, validated, trusted server is there no way to say, "Hey, this is a trusted program, you don't need to scan everything it's doing, even though it's doing what it's supposed to do by modifying system files and crap"?
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@Rhywden Imagine that you're about to host a webinar for a bunch of prospective customers, and your PC reboots halfway into the presentation, taking long enough that everyone drops off the call because your PC is stuck doing updates without giving you any forewarning or chance to delay until afterwards. Now you've lost customers. Not good.
Weirdly enough, my laptop which I'm using daily in school and which I'm using to run the Not-So-SMARTboard in my classroom (because the PC originally destined for that is an asthmatic weasel from 2008) has never rebooted on me while I was using it.
And the "Do the updates now" button is hidden? Seriously? It's a big fat button in the Updates&Security section.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Someone mentioned they reboot at the beginning of every day, just to spite this problem.
It would make more sense to reboot at the end of the day, if you're one of the unlucky slobs for whom it doesn't just work right.
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@Rhywden said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And the "Do the updates now" button is hidden? Seriously? It's a big fat button in the Updates&Security section.
Hmm, looks like they've actually fixed that. You used to have to go under "Advanced Options" and click around to find it.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You used to have to go under "Advanced Options" and click around to find it.
This. Essentially, the main update screen said "Your computer is all up to date! We last checked {four days ago}", and in order for you to get it to check again manually you had to click what looked like a Hyperlink to "Advanced Settings"
Oh, by the way, that Windows 10 machine I had start on updates? Yeah, 10-20 minutes my butt.
Just admit it, Windows, you're stuck.
It's a good thing this isn't my primary PC...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
10-20 minutes my butt
To be fair, I've had occasional reports from staff about Windows 7 boxes that became unusable for half a school day because updates had been applied the previous night.
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@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And the software from IBM that my bank wants you to install is also really slow when it needs to update itself (i.e. every day).
You have some bad IBM software? PROOF THAT WINDOWS IS SHITTY!!! 1
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@flabdablet said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Windows 7 boxes that became unusable for half a school day
Only semi-related:
Ah. Well a few select PC's BIOSes were apparently jacked because Windows Updates were interrupted via power cord disconnection.
Yeah, these Lenovo Workstations were apparently in the middle of updates ( "It was taking too long and we needed to pack up!") after being told to shutdown, got unplugged, and now they're FUBAR'd. Power light illuminates, but graphics card doesn't init, and it doesn't POST.
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@Jaloopa said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And the software from IBM that my bank wants you to install is also really slow when it needs to update itself (i.e. every day).
You have some bad IBM software? PROOF THAT WINDOWS IS SHITTY!!! 1
No, I didn't say that. You are now just assuming without reason that it's all the fault of IBM and not of Microsoft.
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@Grunnen
I thought we had already established that this linux hardware is to blame
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@PleegWat that's why their own do-release-upgrade tool runs in a screen session.
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@wft Hm, I didn't think to look for that. I'd noticed dpkg hadn't died, but got itself stuck later on (probably waiting for input). Well possible I could've attached screen.
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@Luhmann said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I thought we had already established that this linux hardware is to blame
Not necessarily. But if it's a Windows problem it's definitely some kind of hardware problem.
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@Jaloopa said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
bad IBM software
I think "bad IBM software" is kind of redundant. You can assume the "bad" when you see the "IBM".
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@PleegWat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@wft Hm, I didn't think to look for that. I'd noticed dpkg hadn't died, but got itself stuck later on (probably waiting for input). Well possible I could've attached screen.
I had the kernel panic in the middle of an upgrade. That was a fun one to fix after the updater trashed the whole system.....
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CBDA013I Internal logic error detected in module CBDMSRWR
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@blakeyrat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@Grunnen said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
antivirus, anti-malware, anti-phishing, document indexing
The only one of those I use is document indexing. The rest, the Windows 10 built-in stuff handles fine now.
Security Essential always get one of the lowest score for protection when compared against all other AV.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Security Essential always get one of the lowest score for protection when compared against all other AV.
Oh, really?" I'll call up my 463,023 viruses and let them know.
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@blakeyrat 400k viruses doesn't seem like a terribly high number...
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@bb36e said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@blakeyrat 400k viruses doesn't seem like a terribly high number...
on a single machine?
there would be more of course, but they started fighting and now only the strongest survive, to grow and evolve.
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@accalia
You know it's bad when your local bodnet herder starts his work by installing anti-virus software.
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@Luhmann said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@accalia
You know it's bad when your local bodnet herder starts his work by installing anti-virus software.last one who tried was surprised when the anti-virus software got infected and removed his bot as a virus.