It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!
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@blakeyrat because username is an identifier. it should be an alphanumeric starting with a letter and limited to 6 characters.
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@fbmac What about special characters? Would @Gąska be valid in your user name scheme?
(For the record I hate his username. I had to find a polish site to copy the 'ą' from. How do I type it on a Mac?)
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@fbmac said:
@Gąska now we can mention @lb_ and @kt_ but how the fuck will someone mention you?
No prob if you have a compose key. Just use compose + comma + a.
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@Nocha said:
@dse said:
Just fucking stop using spaces in the path, was that hard? Perhaps not more than escaping spaces.
And what if you happen to work at a place where your username has a space in it
That is a sadistic IT policy. If spaces were no problem, they would change the policy to use
&
in the username and you would be struggling with tools again.
It is 2016 just learn to use simple paths and do not try to emulate databases using the filesystem!Sane user name:
c:\users\user.name
or
c:\users\user_name
Unless maybe your email address is also
user name@wtfcorp.org
? do you see the ?
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@blakeyrat said:
@CoyneTheDup said:
So long as command line parsing exists, there is always going to be some kind of headache with names-containing-some-characters being misunderstood, with the easiest solution being to tell the user not to use said characters.
BUT HE'S INSTALLING AN IDE. He is not, as far as any rational person anywhere in the universe would assume, doing any "command line parsing".
Unless the installer is calling a cmd. Fuck only knows why some people do this but they do. Its not like most sane insallers have an easier to use scripting language.
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@blakeyrat said:
@CoyneTheDup said:
What nincompoop made that policy?
People's names have spaces in them. Why not their usernames?
There's nothing wrong with that policy. The thing that's wrong is shitlords like you defending broken software. You are the reason this industry sucks. Raise your standards and stop wallowing in shit.
Especially since the user directory for windows use to be "documents and settings" I've being bitten by useless scripts that didn't account for that. All open sores scripts too. Its like they've never encountered white space to make something readable.
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@DogsB said:
@blakeyrat said:
@CoyneTheDup said:
What nincompoop made that policy?
People's names have spaces in them. Why not their usernames?
There's nothing wrong with that policy. The thing that's wrong is shitlords like you defending broken software. You are the reason this industry sucks. Raise your standards and stop wallowing in shit.
Especially since the user directory for windows use to be "documents and settings"
Even Microsoft learned a lesson when changing that to the sane and more elegant
c:\users
and even better!! nowadaysc:/users
works too!
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@dse said:
Even Microsoft learned a lesson when changing that to the sane and more elegant c:\users and even better!! nowadays c:/users works too!
Yes; incompetent shitholes are writing buggy software. Obviously the right strategy is to appease them. Not, say, RUN THEM OUT OF THE INDUSTRY ON A FUCKING RAIL!
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@blakeyrat said:
@dse said:
Even Microsoft learned a lesson when changing that to the sane and more elegant c:\users and even better!! nowadays c:/users works too!
incompetent shitholes are writing buggy software. Obviously the right strategy is to appease them.
Ironically that is Microsoft's strategy, which I quite agree with!
Not, say, RUN THEM OUT OF THE INDUSTRY ON A FUCKING RAIL!
And this is the my-way-or-highway strategy mostly seen in what you like to call open-sourcey industries.
Besides, iick
Documents and Settings
does that mean I should not install per-user applications there?
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Once again, I think many of the people here know my answer to this problem, and that I am a crank in this regard, so I'll stay out of this after this point.
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@ScholRLEA Yet users persist in liking to give names to things, and they persist in organising things hierarchically. What they really don't take to is using arbitrary IDs to label things; a GUID or UUID is locally nice, but is detested. Users want the identification to mean something other than “this is unique from everything else”.
I've been down this path and learnt that lesson.
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@Nocha [a-z0-9]{1,6}
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@Tsaukpaetra said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
he's become an unmentionable unless he's posted recently, or you have the right keyboard.
You mean keyboard layout. Your actual keyboard has nothing to do with what appears on the screen when you hit a key.
Case in point: tell me what appears on my screen when I hit the second key on the third row on my keyboard.
This is my keyboard:
Hint: it's not a Q.
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@OffByOne said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
Case in point: tell me what appears on my screen when I hit the second key on the third row on my keyboard.
A
. Or'
or"
.
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@RaceProUK said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
@OffByOne said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
Case in point: tell me what appears on my screen when I hit the second key on the third row on my keyboard.
A
. Or'
or"
.It's q on my keyboard. Or s. Pick either zero-based or one-based indexing. Don't use both in the same sentence!
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@RaceProUK said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
@OffByOne said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
Case in point: tell me what appears on my screen when I hit the second key on the third row on my keyboard.
A
. Or'
or"
.What's your final answer? It was not a multiple choice question :P
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@OffByOne Can I phone a friend?
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@RaceProUK said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
@OffByOne Can I phone a friend?
Sure! If I did my timezone math correctly, @accalia is awake now ;)
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@OffByOne ara ara?
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@accalia Hi friend! :)
Which of the three answers do you think is the right one:
A
,'
, or"
?
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What does a Belgian Dvorak keyboard layout put there?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
@Gąska There we go. Yeah, he's become an unmentionable unless he's posted recently, or you have the right keyboard.
Not sure if that's a bad thing...Well, I like the fact that it's not me complaining about my username anymore.
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@RaceProUK said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
@accalia Hi friend! :)
Which of the three answers do you think is the right one:
A
,'
, or"
?uhh..... uhh......
mu?
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@Arantor said:
The ... button suggests not.
I've opened a ... button, and entered a web destination...
Most often when I have to open a ... to enter anything at all, and I just want it to use a picture from the web.
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@blakeyrat said:
@Gąska And it's open source software, what a shocker.
You know.... it's so funny.... because if you talked about people the way you talked about open-source software, that'd be a pretty racist comment.
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@xaade said in It's 2016 and software STILL has problems with spaces in paths!:
@blakeyrat said:
@Gąska And it's open source software, what a shocker.
You know.... it's so funny.... because if you talked about people the way you talked about open-source software, that'd be a pretty racist comment.
I wonder how he would take it if everyone started pointing out whenever there was a bug in closed source software...
And it's closed source, shitty, worthless, expensive shit. No wonder it doesn't work.
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Why do we even use usernames in our login? I suppose it makes it more secure because it makes bruteforcing harder, because then the password has to be matched to a user. But then, is that any different to prefixing the user name to every password? It's just more characters, right. I suppose that two people can end up with the same password, and the user name differentiates that, which adds more security...
You see, I worked on some messed up enterprise software that you didn't type in a username to login. You only typed the password.
The first half of the password was generated for you, and you created the second half of the password.
Sorry for the tangent.
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@xaade said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
Why do we even use usernames in our login?
A lot of places use an e-mail address instead. Besides, a username is an identity; can't authorise access unless you know who they are ;)
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@xaade said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
I suppose that two people can end up with the same password, and the user name differentiates that
Yeah, that's the reason. Think about this:
user 1 has password
hunter1
.user 2 creates an account. He also wants to use
hunter1
. If the password is the only distinguishing factor, the software has to tell him he can't use that as a password, which discloses the fact thathunter1
as a password already exists! He could just typehunter1
in now and log in as user 1.Also, consider the idea of a bruteforce attack. In a bruteforce attack with only the password, nothing else is required - you just have to guess the passwords and rack up the hacked accounts. With a username and password, you can't do that any more.
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You all right, I concede. I want this as my user name and home directory name:
Tibbets, Coyne "Butch" Eugene
Making correct scripts is an exercise for you to solve, to meet my demand. My development path will be:
/home/Tibbets, Coyne "Butch" Eugene/dev
Or
c:\Users\Tibbets, Coyne "Butch" Eugene\dev
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@CoyneTheDup throw in a few newlines
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@ben_lubar No, I don't wanna be sadistic...
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@xaade said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
You see, I worked on some messed up enterprise software that you didn't type in a username to login. You only typed the password.
The first half of the password was generated for you, and you created the second half of the password.
Sorry for the tangent.Citrix?
Oh, you said "just the password". Carry on.
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@sloosecannon said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
Aww, it's not that bad.....
Said nobody everWell, considering out Citrix environment primarily hosts Remote Desktop Connection...
It could be worse.
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Validating a given password against stored data is necessarily computationally expensive (to thwart brute-force attacks on the password db), so if someone is indexing on pw, they fucked up.
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@CoyneTheDup Do you want it with the “helpful” green colouring? Because if you do, that elevates the evil from Minor all the way to Look Out Beelzebub!
That's because it requires adding ANSI escape codes into filenames, a trick that can be used to do really horrible things to terminals. You'll also need to get a lot of tools rewritten, tools that were specifically designed to either utterly ignore these things or even to explicitly de-fang them.
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@dkf In a xanalogical system, you would still be able to give an icon or reference to a document names; they just wouldn't be used as identifiers by the system. A Xanadu document is more like a database view than a file - the document is independent of how the data is stored, and you can have different views of the data without altering the original.
Well, that's the idea anyway. So far it's not much more than an idea even after fifty years.
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I'd think it would become pretty difficult to name 1,000 classes, say, with different pictures, and even more difficult to find the desired picture among a thousand others.
There's a reason we gave up hieroglyphics in favor of alphabets.
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@Nocha said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
I had to find a polish site to copy the 'ą' from.
You could just have copied it from earlier in this thread.
How do I type it on a Mac?
Install a Polish keyboard layout, click the flag icon in the menu bar, select the polish keyboard, and press the key that has the apostrophe on it on a US-English keyboard.
Alternatively, open (or create) ~/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict and add a keyboard shortcut that you like.
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@CoyneTheDup said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
I'd think it would become pretty difficult to name 1,000 classes, say, with different pictures, and even more difficult to find the desired picture among a thousand others.
There's a reason we gave up hieroglyphics in favor of alphabets.
I was using icons as an example of a type of reference, not as the way to do it. The specific interface would depend on the front end program.
In most cases it would be more like how most people see browser bookmarks these days - most of the time, using the search functionality would be easier, and you generally only save a bookmark (which in this case can be anything that can hold a handle to a series of links) for particularly hard to locate items.
This is why I didn't want to get into this now; it's really too much to explain as a side note on this thread. It involves a radically different set of ideas about what a document is and how data is arranged, so going on about it will just reinforce people's (not unjustifiable) opinions of me as a flake. It's like trying to explain elliptical geometry to a Greek geometer from the 4th c. BC; the audience is capable of understanding what you mean, but the ideas are so unfamiliar that they come across as jibberish.
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@DogsB said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
Especially since the user directory for windows use to be "documents and settings"
Never happened on my machine. C:\DOCUME~1\FLABDA~1\APPLIC~1\TOP-IDE FTW, baby!
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@flabdablet Good point. Windows already has a compatibility shim for those applications.
Problem solved, everyone!
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@dkf said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
and they persist in organising things hierarchically
People organise files hierarchically because it's the only way current file systems support.
If you look at, for example, websites, you'll notice they organize their "files" in vastly different ways. For example, Google photos stores them as a single chronological stream, from which you can pick manually or automatically created subsets (albums, photos grouped by location, photos grouped by automatically recognized objects). YouTube organizes their videos by "channel", but mostly relies on text search and a vast graph of "related videos" to find them. Some, ahem, "image gallery" websites rely exclusively on tags. Etc.
Maybe some day, operating systems will switch to something more resembling an SQL database?
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@anonymous234 said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
Maybe some day, operating systems will switch to something more resembling an SQL database?
Like this?
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You know what sucks? A space in a cookie. I dare you to debug that while the client is crying their ass off.
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@Eldelshell said in It's 2016 and software ***STILL*** has problems with spaces in paths!:
space in a cookie
Or worse yet...
Space in a cookie.... in space!
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@anonymous234 On the other hand, Google Docs/Drive is really organised along the lines of using general IDs behind the scenes, with the hierarchical organisation into folders something that is layered on top. Thus, if you have a link to one document you can't (practically) guess the links to any others; you have to ask the system for that information.
I guess I don't know which side I'm arguing for.