True randomness, lottery and super Ai are all very connected. agreed?



  • LFO*

    Continuing the discussion from TDWTF Forum FAQ:

    @cregox said:

    everything from race to distance and spiderman always boils down intelligence and randomness:

    What is Random? – 11:12
    — Vsauce

    all the reason why this:

    *(looking for opinions)



  • @cregox said:

    truly real random

    But is it random random random noodle?

    Also nice of you to link to a post with nothing but a reference to another post.



  • Well, opinion number 1:

    Use the microphone, the camera, the antenna, the clock, wifi signals, compass, everything to "randomize" the numbers!

    I'm pretty sure that no person in the history of ever thought to themselves "well, random.org is really nice, but I wish I could generate a truly random number while lost in the middle of nowhere with no data connection!"



  • What Ai are you talking about?

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure randomness is pretty much the opposite of intelligence. One of the formal definitions of an intelligent agent is "one that can perform better at a certain challenge than random choices".

    On the other hand, intelligence can be thought of as being the ability to extract information from apparently random data. Which has led some people to define it as the ability to compress data files. Meaning 7-zip is actually the smartest program in your computer.

    Though obviously you have already read those papers and knew this better than I do, being an AI expert and all.



  • I think we're all agreed that you're genuinely insane.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I think we're all agreed that you're genuinely insane.

    @SpectateSwamp: The Next Generation.


    Filed under: and yes, I want a showdown between the two


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Maciejasjmj said:

    and yes, I want a showdown between the two

    Might be dangerous: Listening to an argument between the two might fry everyone else's brains as well.



  • Throw @xaade in there too, what could possibly go wrong?


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    To be fair, @xaade doesn't seem to be insane, he's just really, really bad at wording his thoughts.



  • I've met people that understand me though.
    It's rare.



  • I try everyday. :hug:


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Sometimes, I get what you're trying to say. It seems like you have problems with filtering your thoughts and putting them in the correct order. Some of your posts sound like an unfiltered stream of consciousness. Basically, you type as your neurons are firing :D

    It always makes sense after a while (reading multiple posts at once).



  • It feels like other people think like a line while i think like a tree


  • sockdevs

    You should have that as a bumper sticker or something ;)


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    Oh, I think in random associations as well. And the more I drink, the less I filter my thoughts. Having conversations with drunk me can be a lot of fun*. ;)

    *And I guarantee that you'll be asking me what we were originally talking about at some point during the conversation.



  • @asdf said:

    we were originally talking about

    Actually, i am pretty good at keeping track and usually the first to remember the track.

    I have to be if i want to add branches to the tree


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @xaade said:

    Actually, i am pretty good at keeping track

    Me too. The problem is that most others are not able to follow.



  • Learned behavior, if i try to express the full path people lose interest.

    What i have done lately is learn how to talk faster



  • And I'm the opposite. Sometimes I forget what I'm talking about halfway through a sentence. I'm going to be one cranky old man in another few decades.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @mott555 said:

    Sometimes I forget what I'm talking about halfway through a sentence.

    That only happens to me every time I want to fetch something from the basement. :belt_onion:



  • @anonymous234 said:

    One of the formal definitions of an intelligent agent is "one that can perform better at a certain challenge than random choices".

    I prefer intelligence definition of "capacity to predict the future". if randomness is a pattern we can't understand, it only means it has information from the future we still can't unscramble.

    and I didn't mean randomness is intelligence. I said you need one to figure out the other. they're strongly linked. that's basically the same thing you said on the 2nd paragraph.

    you're wrong on the third paragraph in at least one way though. I don't usually read papers nor do I know anything better than anyone. superlatives are just one of many illusions we enjoy playing with, but they're not practical for materializing anything.

    @xaade said:

    I've met people that understand me though.It's rare.

    I could understand that. I don't think I've ever met anyone who completely understand me, but I sure met many who read me right many times at most points. right here, probably most wtf'kers know what I mean.

    @xaade said:

    i am pretty good at keeping track

    not sure I can claim that. I like to think of myself as good to instantly reconstructing tracks instead.

    @blakeyrat said:

    we're all agreed that you're genuinely insane.

    genuine wi-down! \o/



  • @xaade said:

    @asdf said:
    we were originally talking about

    Actually, i am pretty good at keeping track and usually the first to remember the track.

    I lose track in the mental conversations I have with myself.



  • I bet we'd understand you better if we plugged all your posts into a Markhov chain generator.



  • @cregox said:

    if randomness is a pattern

    I don't think that word means what you think it means. If there's a pattern, it isn't random by definition, it's merely a sufficiently complicated pattern that you haven't figured it out yet.


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Are you Gary Skeete?


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    Let's see.

    omness is a pattern we can't understand, it only means it has intelligence. I said you need one way though. I don't unscramble.

    and I didn't mean randomness is a pattern we can't understand, it only means it has information from the future wrongly linked. that's basically the future". if randomness is a pattern we can't understand, it has information of "capacity to figure out they're not practically the same thing you said on the third paragraph.

    you're wrong on the thing anything.ust one to figure out they're not practical for materializing anything better than anyone. superlatives are just one to predict the 2nd paragraph in at least one way the same thing better than anything bettern we can't usually read papers nor do I know anything you said on the 2nd paragraph.

    you're we strongly linked. that's basically read papers nor do I know anything better than anyone. superlatives are just one way though. I don't usually read papers nor do I know anything you said you need on they're strongly linked. they're not practical for materializing anything better than anyone. superlatives are just one way though. I didn't mean randomness is a pattern we can't understand, it only mean randomness is intelligence. I said on the third paragraph.

    you're wrong on the 2nd paragraph.

    and I don't usually the thing you said on the 2nd paragraph.

    you're wrong on the future we still can't usually read papers nor do I know anyone. superlatives are just one way though. I don't unscramble.

    and I didn't mean randomness is information from the future we still can't understand, it has information of "capacity to predict the 2nd paragraph.

    you're wrong on the thing anything.ure out the third paragraph in at least one to figure out the other. they're strongly linked. that's basical for materializing anything anything you said on the third paragraph.

    you're strongly linked. that's basically the same thing you need one to figure out the same third paragraph.

    you're not practical for materializing you need one to figure out they're strongly linked. that's basically read paragraph.

    and I didn't mean randomness is a patter that's basically the same thing better than anything you said on the 2nd paragraph.

    and I didn't means it has information from the future we still can't understand, it only mean randomness is intelligence definition from they're strongly linked. that's basically the same thing bettern we can't usually read papers nor do I know

    Wow. Apart from capitalization I honestly can't tell the difference.



  • But what about when you can't use random.org? What if you are random.org?



  • @rc4 said:

    What if you are random.org?

    Oh my God. What if I am? What if we all are random.org?



  • Random.org is everywhere, it's all around us, here even in this room. You can see it out your window, or on your television. You feel it when you go to work, or go to church or pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.




  • BINNED

    @cregox said:

    (looking for opinions)

    I like the goat. Best way to convert notebook to milk, now that is intelligence.



  • @rc4 said:

    Random.org is everywhere, it's all around us, here even in this room. You can see it out your window, or on your television. You feel it when you go to work, or go to church or pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

    If you get randomized in Random.org, you get randomized IN REAL LIFE.



  • @cregox said:

    if randomness is a pattern we can't understand, it only means it has information from the future we still can't unscramble.

    I think you're coming at this inside out. Patterns are data compression artifacts. Randomness is by definition not patterned; it's information our brains can't compress. Our most frequent response to such data is to abstract it away as "noise" and ignore it, but sometimes we have no choice but to store it close to raw.

    Information we can't "unscramble" is not from the future, it's here and now. Future compression methods might allow us to perceive data formerly thought to be random as patterned. Without such a method, the only "unscrambling" that can be done on unpatterned data will create some mapping of it that requires at least as much storage as the "scrambled" original; any attempt to compress it will necessarily be lossy.



  • @flabdablet said:

    Patterns are data compression artifacts

    artifacts?

    other than that, too much definitions and too little context. you're in circles trying to cherry pick my words rather than understanding what I meant. in fact just remove the 2 sentences with "not" in which you're trying to disagree without really disagreeing - because I never said they were.

    in any case, and in other words, many patterns we have for granted today were random scrambled noise in the past. just sayin'.



  • @cregox said:

    artifacts?

    Yep. The world is what it is. Patterns are not a feature of the world. Our brains perceive compressible information about the world as patterned.



  • That's right, and the singularity already happened at 4chan, evidence:

    hi every1 im new!!!!!!! holds up spork my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol…as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me _… im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol…neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!! DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again _^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

    love and waffles,

    t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m



  • What language is that?


  • area_can

    Should we make a copypasta thread?





  • @Gaska said:

    "What if the entrite [sic] humanity is just a random number generator for some alien race?

    And what if the next number up is 42?



  • Given that we do wake up every day in a world that's slightly weirder, that might well be the case.



  • @CoyneTheDup said:

    And what if the next number up is 42?

    What if every next number is 42?



  • @Gaska said:

    What if every next number is 42?

    Then I guess we are a lousy random number generator.



  • @CoyneTheDup said:

    @Gaska said:
    What if every next number is 42?

    Then I guess we are a lousy random number generator.

    That's the problem with random. You can never tell. What if the patterns are meaningless drivel?



  • @DogsB said:

    You can never tell

    yet again, time machine.

    and I prefer 43.



  • If I could work the report system I would whoosh every post you've made in this thread...


  • sockdevs

    @Gaska said:

    @CoyneTheDup said:
    And what if the next number up is 42?

    What if every next number is 42?

    Then you've found the cousin of that guy who works at Dilbert's company.



  • Chew on this:

    Randomness is just lack of information to determine an outcome. You don't know how the coin will flip, because you don't know it's exact physical composition (down to the atom), the exact force used by the flipper (every distribution, ever vector), the exact movement of every molecule of air, the exact pull of gravity on ever atom of the coin, etc.

    With perfect information of the flip, and a powerful enough computer, you could say exactly what the flip would end up as.

    Randomness is a lack of information, and complete knowledge removes all randomness.

    Random events in the Universe aren't random. With perfect information of every atom, ever quark, every line of force, you'd know exactly how everything would move and act. You could plot out the course of galaxies from birth to death. If you had this information right from the Big Bang, you would know everything that would ever happen in the Universe. It isn't randomness, it's lack of information.

    Random thoughts aren't random-- if you knew the exact input, the exact state of the brain machine, you could plot the tilted-Plinko board of neurons, and know what the decision someone would make is. The human brain and mind is just a series of chemical reactions and electrical impulses.

    So with perfect information, you would know everything that would ever happen in the Universe, and every decision and thought anyone would ever have.

    Free will is a lie. There is no random.



  • But quantum! :trolleybus:


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