When to use chip-enabled card?
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Why would I use my credit card in an ATM?
I actually looked it up recently, and I could, but they'll charge me like $10 as a "cash advance" fee. That's in addition to whatever the ATM charges. Oh, and probably immediately start charging interest on the amount, since it's not a purchase and thus not subject to the grace period for the new purchase balance.
When I want money from an ATM, I use my debit card. I know the PIN for that, because I use it.
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Why would I use my credit card in an ATM?
To get cash? Is this a trick question, or...?
I actually looked it up recently, and I could, but they'll charge me like $10 as a "cash advance" fee.
That's stupid. You can go into any grocery store and get like $80 cash back for the price of a pack of gum. EDIT: and then it counts as a "purchase", too.
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but they'll charge me like $10 as a "cash advance" fee
How does it feel to be ass-raped by your credit card provider?
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That's stupid. You can go into any grocery store and get like $80 cash back for the price of a pack of gum.
I can't recall ever being asked if I want cash back for a credit card transaction. Only for debit card transactions. (And if I ever was asked, I automatically said No because I assumed it'd be subject to some kind of fee.)
Anyway, stores can only do that if they're paying a flat fee for the transaction processing. Otherwise it'd cost the store money.
How does it feel to be ass-raped by your credit card provider?
I've never once actually paid that cash advance fee. I'm not dumb enough or desperate enough to get a cash advance from my credit card company. And the card has a pretty good rewards program, so I think I'll go right on using it.
I have a checking account and a debit card for when I need cash from an ATM.
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and then it counts as a "purchase", too.
If that's so, then I could buy a pack of gum and get $80 cash back, and I'd get more in reward points for the "purchase" of $81 than the actual dollar or so that I spent on the gum.
I find it hard to believe that my credit card company would be okay with letting that happen.
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Try it.
And when you're a millionaire, toss a few bucks back to me.
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I find it hard to believe that my credit card company would be okay with letting that happen.
They're fine with it. Cash back cards have higher interest, so they're just giving you your own money back. If you manage to be one of those people that never carry a balance, then congratulations - you beat the system.
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Not really. The rewards program is just giving you part of the transaction fee back, which cuts into the store's profit margin. The credit card company would still make money on those even if you pay your full balance every month.
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"Durr, wat's dat?"
You're lucky yours react at all. My phone (sometimes) chirps but nothing else happens.
Then again, it sometimes chirps when placing it on a metal table, so...
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You guys might be interested to know I just got approved for a credit card.
After the debit card got shut out it worried me that I didn't have any other way of making purchases other than hoping banks are open and walking into one-- if it happens while I'm traveling or even when banks are closed for a weekend or holiday I could end up screwed for awhile.
So I decided maybe it'd be a good idea to have a backup credit card I can use in emergencies. I need to figure out some strategy to keep it "alive" with enough activity that the bank doesn't cancel it on me. Maybe I'll make it a blanket policy to use the CC to pay for restaurants or something like that.
I got like 1% cash back, whee. I guess. And I think it was 2% on gas.
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Just have one of your monthly bills automatically charge that card. That ensures that it'll always have some activity. Then set up the credit card to automatically charge your checking account every month so you'll never miss a payment by accident.
I use mine for everything I possibly can, though, because of the reward points.
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That's not a bad idea.
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@mikehurley said:
I was using my chip card at the local Home Depot before they officially flipped the switch. I managed to cause one of their chip reading card readers to reboot and end up in the equivalent of its BIOS. That was amusing. Other times it worked just fine.
I froze one by (trying) to use Google Wallet.
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Well, to be perfectly honest, it is hard to accurately forge a signature.
It's hard to accurately sign things too, but oh well.......
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I'm not so old I feel it's a noticeable portion of my remaining lifespan.
What does take up a noticeable portion of my remaining lifespan is OTHER PEOPLE not being able to fucking figure it out. Swipe the card, stare, swipe it again because APPARENTLY YOU CAN'T FUCKING READ THE WORDS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, cashier comes out from behind the counter, tries to swipe it, inserts it, goes back behind the counter to kick off the processing, makes polite small talk pretending to be apologetic about how they've made the systems more secure and apparently it's INCOMPREHENSIBLE now, clearly not the customer's fault for being an idiot.
Repeat with the following scenarios:
- Customer inserts card, immediately removes it, panics when the terminal tells them PUT THAT BACK IN
- Customer puts it in, it doesn't read for some reason, both cashier and customer try it five more times before the cashier gives up and just swipes it behind the counter
- Customer makes the barest gesture towards "insertion" ( again), it hangs flaccidly out of the slot because they don't realize you PUSH IT IN UNTIL IT CLICKS
- Customer inserts a non-chip card because they saw the person in front of them do it
And by the time I'm at the counter I'm ready to steamroller a box full of kittens.
- Customer inserts card, immediately removes it, panics when the terminal tells them PUT THAT BACK IN
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In my case recently it was "swipe the card, apologetically ask if I should've probably inserted it, insert it, wait while it does nothing, wait while she fiddles about with the POS, apologetically crack a joke about how I broke it, wait while she finally reboots the card reader, wait for its OS to finish rebooting and recognize that it's supposed to be getting a transaction, insert card, wait while it reads it and transacts, done".
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What does take up a noticeable portion of my remaining lifespan is OTHER PEOPLE not being able to fucking figure it out.
Oddly, I haven't seen that happen since places started taking chip cards. (I saw it once--at Wal-mart, of course--before they had them enabled, or else that guy's card wouldn't work with them or something, because it wasn't a US card.) Most people just swipe unless the reader gives them the "use the chip card, loser" raspberry.
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it hangs flaccidly out of the slot
Oh hey, an accurate description of my sex life!
4. Customer inserts a non-chip card because they saw the person in front of them do it
Hey, I've seen people trying to stick their IDs in there, nothing's gonna surprise me.
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The argument that people are too dumb to remember a pin, which is what I've heard is the argument for chip-and-sig--is insulting, since it's obviously not true.
No, it isn't true. It's an excuse. Aside from the responsibility-issue, there's also the fact that processing a chip-and-pin transaction costs more (ie: the merchant is charged more). But no CEO is going to say "my bonus depends on meeting a certain profit point, and the extra 0.25% transaction fee is going to put my personal bonus at risk. So, umm-- I mean it's for the benefit of the poor customers. Yeah, that's it."
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@Lorne_Kates said:
@PleegWat said:
Reply to mark whisper as read.
#WHAT DID YOU SAY SONNY I CAN'T HEAR YOU
I think it was "old man shouts what at cloud?"
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@Lorne_Kates said:
But no CEO is going to say "my bonus depends on meeting a certain profit point, and the extra 0.25% transaction fee is going to put my personal bonus at risk. So, umm-- I mean it's for the benefit of the poor customers. Yeah, that's it."
Small merchants often aren't shy about transaction fees though.
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Larger merchants feel the fees relating to handling cash much more strongly. All those safes and armored cars for transporting the stuff to and from the bank, they don't cost nothing. Smaller merchants are more able to just use a simple float (and often undervalue the owner's time and convenience).
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#PEOPLE WHO USE CREDIT CARDS!:
What counts as a "purchase"? My card has a dealie where if I put $500 in purchased on it in the first 90 days, they'll give me a $100 cash back bonus. So I'm curious whether I could just put a single car payment on it (about $700), pay the card back immediately, and have that count as a purchase?
Or does it have to actually be a purchase at a retail store? If the latter, what about online purchases at Amazon.com? Or does it have to actually be swiped at a physical terminal?
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Depends on the terms.
I doubt you can put a car payment on your credit card without paying fees though.
Online purchases are purchases.
From the example Discover IT Cardmember Agreement:
“Purchase” means the use of your Account to purchase or lease goods or services
at participating merchants."Cash Advance” means the use of your Account to:
• obtain cash from participating automated teller machines, financial institutions
or other locations;
• purchase lottery tickets, money orders, casino chips, foreign currency or similar items.Solution to "What is a purchase?" Call that bank and ask.
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What counts as a "purchase"?
are you in a store and use your card? that's a
paddlingpurchase
are you online and order something using your card number? that's apaddlingpurchase
are you doing anything else with your card? that's apaddlingprobably not a purchase
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Solution to "What is a purchase?" Call that bank and ask.
Meh. I'm afraid they'd ask me to read all the material that came with the card, and fuck that.
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I'm trying to think of what I'd spend $500 on over the next 90 days that would count as a purchase.
I'm a pretty simple guy. Hm.
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$500 buys a lot of shitty steam games.
If you live in seattle and you are spending less than $500 on food, gas, and transportation over 90 days I'd be surprised.
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Oh hey, that gives me an idea. Does liquor count? I could hit up the liquor store and drink on that $500 for like 6-7 months.
Actually you're right, just putting regular grocery trips on it should be enough.
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I see no reason why liquor wouldn't count.
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My card has a dealie where if I put $500 in purchased on it in the first 90 days, they'll give me a $100 cash back bonus. So I'm curious whether I could just put a single car payment on it (about $700), pay the card back immediately, and have that count as a purchase?
Yeah, I'm about 99.9% sure that it would count as a purchase.
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oh well too late, I've decided to put my groceries on the card for the next month instead.
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Why not both?
If there's no extra charge to pay your car with the credit card, I mean. If there's an extra fee, then sure, if you can make $500 in other purchases anyway then why pay an extra fee?
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That's basically what I did - I just run nearly everything through the credit card, pay it off at the end of the month, ???, profit.
Only things I will take cash out for are when I need cash, for places like the laundromat and the bakery next to work which is firmly stuck in 1927 and refuses to get EFTPOS.
edit: of course, when I say "take cash out" I don't mean "take cash out of the credit card" because I'm not paying 23% interest from the second I do that thanks all the same - I mean take it out of the debit card where there's no fee unless I'm stupid enough to use another bank's ATM.
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I'm trying to think of what I'd spend $500 on over the next 90 days that would count as a purchase.
HunniePop DLC?
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That's basically what I did - I just run nearly everything through the credit card, pay it off at the end of the month, ???, profit.
My CC gives me 2-3% back in grocery points (which can also be used to buy gift cards for a whole host of other places). I put everything on the CC, and pay it off before the end of the statement, so no interest.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
My CC gives me 2-3% back in grocery points (which can also be used to buy gift cards for a whole host of other places). I put everything on the CC, and pay it off before the end of the statement, so no interest.
I'm the same - mine gives me points (1.5 on the Visa, 2 on the Amex but that's going down soon because of new interchange fee rules here) that you can trade in for stuff, like appliances or gift cards.
There's a break-even point of a spend on it of about $12000 each year, at which point I've made back the annual fee in gift cards.
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I don't understand the incentive for credit card companies to discourage using the card to get cash.
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I don't either, but it's 2016, if you don't have EFTPOS\credit card facilities here then I question how your business can be considered a going concern - they're not hideously expensive any more.
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Get/steal credit card
Max out cash advance limit
Run to a different country
???
PROFIT!
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I guess it's slightly easier to carry cash than merchandise? But you can max it out on untraceable gift cards, too. So... not really.
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I don't understand the incentive for credit card companies to discourage using the card to get cash.
It's probably one of those "turtles all the way down" things. Everyone at every level gets fucked over a bit on cash-like transactions, so everyone discourages them.
Let's say I want to "buy cash" from a merchant. They sell me $100 for $100, but pay a service fee on that transaction. Bad for them.
Or I buy gift cards. I'm again buying $100 for $100, and then spending $100, and they've now paid a transaction fee plus gift card processing costs.
The gift card ones is weird though-- I don't think any credit card I've had has dinged me for gift card transactions. Maybe it's a
thing.I can understand why the CC company would discourage giving your bonus on cash-like transactions
- You buy the exact amount you need for the bonus in gift cards
- cash-like fuckery fees all around
- You end up spending effectively $0, and get a bonus
When the idea of the bonus is:
- You go out and spend at least the $500
- But people suck at math, and get caught up in spending, so they spend way over $500
- All that spending generates merchant fees
- Plus probably a whole bunch of interest fees over time
- And gets people used to using that credit card as their sole source of payment-- generating more merchant fees and interest charges
- Or people don't read the fine print and spend "incorrectly", still generating the fees and interest but no bonus
- And even then, the bonus funds probably come from the advertising budget, not the profits
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@Lorne_Kates said:
The gift card ones is weird though-- I don't think any credit card I've had has dinged me for gift card transactions. Maybe it's a
thing.That's what I'm saying. I don't see why you get penalized for using the card to get cash, but not to get gift cards.
(Although the reason is probably: it's really fucking difficult for the card's back-end software to identify a gift card purchase. "It's difficult so we won't bother." Whereas it's relatively easy to identify uses at ATMs and require store scanners to not offer "cash back" is a credit card is used.)
@Lorne_Kates said:
And even then, the bonus funds probably come from the advertising budget, not the profits
Yeah, it's just like when banks give you a little appliance for signing up with a new account and depositing X dollars. The old stereotype was getting a free toaster, I think last time I saw the deal it was a iPod Mini.
POINTLESS UNRELATED TRIVIA:
When I was grocery shopping yesterday, my grocery store chain is in Chapter 11 right now, not a big deal except it means the court can control what items that sell. What can't they sell? Inexplicably: gift cards. WTF? Booze? Fine. Cigarettes? Perfectly ok. Lotto tickets? Sure! But gift cards are shitcanned. Huh.
Someone behind me in line at the grocery store asked why they didn't have gift cards, and the checker explained that. Then I asked why and she didn't know. I don't either. So weird.
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When I was grocery shopping yesterday, my grocery store chain is in Chapter 11 right now, not a big deal except it means the court can control what items that sell. What can't they sell? Inexplicably: gift cards. WTF? Booze? Fine. Cigarettes? Perfectly ok. Lotto tickets? Sure! But gift cards are shitcanned. Huh.
Someone behind me in line at the grocery store asked why they didn't have gift cards, and the checker explained that. Then I asked why and she didn't know. I don't either. So weird.
Gift cards to that grocery store? My uneducated guess would be that if the company can't make it through bankruptcy, then all of their gift cards will become worthless. My even-less-educated guess would be that outstanding gift cards are considered debts owed to the holders of those gift cards.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
@Douglasac said:
annual fee
lolololololol you pay an annual fee? lolololololol
To some people, the additional benefits that you get with American Express cards are worth the annual fee.
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My even-less-educated guess would be that outstanding gift cards are considered debts owed to the holders of those gift cards.
I believe this is the reason. You should not be taking on more debt when you're negotiating an abandonment of existing debt.
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(Although the reason is probably: it's really fucking difficult for the card's back-end software to identify a gift card purchase. "It's difficult so we won't bother." Whereas it's relatively easy to identify uses at ATMs and require store scanners to not offer "cash back" is a credit card is used.)
That sounds about right.
I think last time I saw the deal it was a iPod Mini.
I almost never see a tangible bonus anymore. Unless it's for an extremely shitty bank product. Like they'll try to lure in students with "omg teh ipodz" if you agree to sign up for a 'student' account that pays no interest and has a monthly fee, and a whole bunch of other shitty lock-in fine print.
A friend of mine was looking at something like that once. Until I pointed out something like "You'd be paying $8 a month in fees, over a minimum of 24 months, so you're paying $192 for a $50 ipod. Just get a free account, put aside $20 a month for a couple months, and fucking buy one" (note: dollar figures are asspulls, but roughly in line with the orders of magnitude).
I believe this is the reason. You should not be taking on more debt when you're negotiating an abandonment of existing debt.
Yup, that's it. As soon as you file, you go into the hands of a debt management firm-- or at worst, a liquidator. They effectively suspend the sale of all gift cards. If you, as a shopper, are lucky, you can still SPEND the gift cards. Depending on the laws in your state, the liquidator might be allowed to say "too fucking bad, no gift cards". And again, depending on the law, you might either be able to apply for a refund on the GC, or get in line behind all the other debitors at the bankruptcy hearing-- or chances are you're fucked by the fine print on the card.
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There's a break-even point of a spend on it of about $12000 each year, at which point I've made back the annual fee in gift cards.
There's a good chance you'd be better off just getting a no-annual-fee card, and you'd get just as good, or almost just as good, rewards. My Visa Quicksilver card has no annual fee and it earns rewards of 1.5%.
If you're earning 2% with an annual fee, you have to not only break even but beat what the 1.5% card with no annual fee earns, for it to be worth the annual fee.
edit: I guess you might get other benefits with the card that make it worth the fee... I probably wouldn't use any of them.
