Top 10 dead or dying computer skills - in 2007



  • Another one of these articles, only this one almost 10 years old.

    Let's see how they did.

    1. Non-IP networks
    2. cc:Mail
    3. PowerBuilder

    Never heard of these, so I guess, well done?

    1. Cobol
    1. ColdFusion
    2. Certified NetWare Engineers
    3. OS/2

    Fair enough, these are out.

    1. PC network administrators

    WTF is a "PC network administrator"? If this is what's considered IT in like a small office, then LOL, no. The quote they give is from some guy who's "president of Nate Viall & Associates, an AS/400 (iSeries) recruiting company.", so I'd take his words with a grain of salt.

    1. Nonrelational DBMS

    Massive fucking fail. MongoDB came out 2 years after this article. Funny how this current wave of NoSQL is already receding, having left a few battle tested niche systems and prompted RDBMS vendors to step up their game in terms of document storage.

    1. C programming

    Hahahahahaha. No.


  • sockdevs

    @cartman82 said:

    > 6) C programming

    Will never die


  • Grade A Premium Asshole

    @cartman82 said:

    7) PowerBuilder

    Yeah, sadly enough that one is not dying. There are still tons and tons of niche LOB applications that are still in active development on PowerBuilder.

    And they are all shit.



  • @cartman82 said:

    only this one almost 10 years old

    I think reading old articles about the future of computing is much more educational than reading new ones.



  • @Polygeekery said:

    Yeah, sadly enough that one is not dying. There are still tons and tons of niche LOB applications that are still in active development on PowerBuilder.

    And they are all shit.

    We are only now deprecating some PowerBuilder apps. And they are all shit.



  • @cartman82 said:

    6) C programming

    Hahahahahaha. No.

    It should die. Now that there's a suitable replacement that works even on "OMG I DO EMMBEDDED THE COMPUTER HAS NOR AMMMZZZZ AND ITS REALLY TINY OMG DDONNMT SAYA NYTHING BAD ABOUT C BECAUSE I DO EMBEDDDDDED OIN REALLY TINY COMPUTERSSSQ@!!!!" bullshit I get every time I bring up C should die.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    It should die. Now that there's a suitable replacement that works even on "OMG I DO EMMBEDDED THE COMPUTER HAS NOR AMMMZZZZ AND ITS REALLY TINY OMG DDONNMT SAYA NYTHING BAD ABOUT C BECAUSE I DO EMBEDDDDDED OIN REALLY TINY COMPUTERSSSQ@!!!!" bullshit I get every time I bring up C should die.

    Don't see 90% of linux crap being rewritten any time soon.

    But if I HAD to make something for an embedded system, I guess I'd look into rust or D, I guess.



  • @cartman82 said:

    Don't see 90% of linux crap being rewritten any time soon.

    Of course not. That would take EFFORT and DROPPING 1970s TECHNOLOGIES. Neither of which is anything Linux will EVER do.



  • Yeah, I refuse to write new C code. If I can't use C++, I'm gonna use Rust.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    It should die.

    You know what's written in C? Windows.



  • Yes?

    Is there some point you're attempting to make, or are you just mouth-farting?



  • You don't have to rewrite the existing crap to be able to write new crap in a different languages.

    Language interoperability shouldn't be that hard.



  • @RaceProUK said:

    Will never die

    Yeah, check out the Very Long Term History section on the TIOBE index. You see languages rise and fall, but C has been in the top 2 for 30 years.

    Programming Language2015201020052000199519901985
    Java112331--
    C2211211
    C++3332129
    C#4579---
    Objective-C51043----
    Python6662315--
    PHP74521---
    JavaScript88107---
    Visual Basic .NET9191-----
    Perl10744617-
    Pascal171416183106
    Fortran262515171735
    Lisp2715138562
    Ada29231719473

  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    Yes?

    Is there some point you're attempting to make, or are you just mouth-farting?

    Do you think Microsoft should rewrite Windows in a language that you like better.


  • sockdevs

    @FrostCat said:

    Do you think Microsoft should rewrite Windows in a language that you like better.?

    QTFY



  • This post is deleted!


  • @skotl said:

    We are only now deprecating some PowerBuilder apps. And they are all shit.

    I wish we could. All new work is being done in .Net, but the majority of our customers are on the PowerBuilder version of our products.



  • @cartman82 said:

    Cobol

    Debatable.

    Dead as in certain % no longer uses, yes.

    Dead as in, isn't a skill in demand at all, no.



  • I have to support ms-dos and something that has only an incomplete c implementation with some proprietary libraries replacing standard stuff.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    You might want to bookmark this. Seriously, though, you have my sympathies.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Do you think Microsoft should rewrite Windows in a language that you like better.

    I think there would be a benefit to rewriting Windows in a language like Rust, yes. I don't realistically expect that to happen though.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    I think there would be a benefit to rewriting Windows in a language like Rust, yes.

    I suppose the question is, does the benefit of rewriting millions of LOC, and making sure not to make the rewrite behave differently outweigh the costs.



  • Wanna hear something funny? Linus Torvalds won't even allow C++ because it "attracts a lot of substandard programmers".

    (and also because it's a shitty language, which he's right about, but that's another issue).

    Reminds me of a certain forum software.



  • I think @cartman82 misread this "10 things we will never get rid of" article as "10 things that will die right about now".



  • @FrostCat said:

    I suppose the question is, does the benefit of rewriting millions of LOC, and making sure not to make the rewrite behave differently outweigh the costs.

    Considering the cost of all the security work done in the last 20 years, it might paid for an effort to switch to a more secure language than C.

    On the other hand, MS now has so much goddamned instrumentation and tools on C that maybe there's nothing to be gained any longer, they don't need the inherent security of a language like Rust because they have enough testing tools in place to simulate all of its features even in a shittier language.

    Who knows. I'm not Microsoft.



  • @Bort said:

    Yeah, check out the Very Long Term History section on the TIOBE index

    I always found this tiobe thing strange. Javascript on the 8th place? Tied with Visual Basic .NET? Lisp and Ada? Pascal? Fortran?

    Dunno.



  • After Iran destroys the world in nuclear fire, there will be cockroaches, eating Twinkies and programming in c.



  • Ew... why is VB.net in the top 10?



  • It doesn't always follow the buzz (that would be javascript, javascript and more javascript), but I don't think buzz is what it measures.

    The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @WernerCD said:

    Ew... why is VB.net in the top 10?

    Why not? VB.Net isn't VB. It's basically C# with different keywords.



  • C isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You plebs might not see it in general application development anymore, but device drivers, embedded software, and low-level device access is still all C.

    I'm curious about Rust but haven't actually seen it in use yet, and I doubt half the platforms we support will have a Rust compiler anytime soon.



  • @FrostCat said:

    It's basically C# with different keywords.

    And quite a bunch of gotchas, especially if you stumble upon code with no Option Strict/Explicit. And even then you'll be surprised why you have one too many elements in your array.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Because governments love it. I don't fucking get it, either.



  • @anonymous234 said:

    (and also because it's a shitty language, which he's right about, but that's another issue).

    Read page one of this, specifically the last paragraph of page one.



  • Fuck the committee.



  • @cartman82 said:

    3) Non-IP networks

    I don't understand this. Maybe they meant non-ethernet networks? Like token ring? IP is a protocol, not a network, and there are some network technologies still around.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    I don't understand this. Maybe they meant non-ethernet networks? Like token ring? IP is a protocol, not a network, and there are some network technologies still around.

    I presume there was something big companies were using before IP, that served a similar purpose? Don't know.



  • @cartman82 said:

    Tied with Visual Basic .NET?

    I remember reading up on it once and it made no distinction between VB6, VBA, VBScript and VB.Net.

    That alone was enough for me to bin it as "utterly irrelevant."

    @WernerCD said:

    Ew... why is VB.net in the top 10?

    Because their broken metric gloms together like 7 languages into the VB.Net bucket. It probably shoves RealBasic in there too, because why not.



  • This post is deleted!


  • @Eldelshell said:

    I don't understand this. Maybe they meant non-ethernet networks? Like token ring? IP is a protocol, not a network, and there are some network technologies still around.

    The article specifically calls out IBM Systems Network Architecture.



  • As for the top 10 dead or dying computer skills in 2015:

    • Even basic testing with real human beings on real hardware
    • Solving a problem in as straightforward a manner as possible
    • THINKING


  • Commas make lists ambiguous.


  • area_deu

    Don't forget the fuckery that is Nothing ...



  • @Bort said:

    Fuck the commies.

    What I read.


  • :belt_onion:

    • First lesson learned from crappy articles (IOW any article in LinkedIn): Never waste time reading an article that enumerates something in its title.
      7 ways to do X, 10 jobs blah, 120 facts about fucking millennials, ...
    • Second lesson learned also from LinkedIn articles: Never waste time reading an article that has the word millennial in it.
    • Third lesson learned: other crap-detection flags include words such as top, best, introvert and extrovert.

    Stay away and you can instead waste time reading high-quality trolling/bashing in TDWTF



  • @dse said:

    the word millennial in it

    The problem isn't that young people don't have good ideas.

    It's that they don't have enough life experience to separate the good ideas from the bad ones.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    @cartman82 said:
    3) Non-IP networks

    I don't understand this. Maybe they meant non-ethernet networks? Like token ring? IP is a protocol, not a network, and there are some network technologies still around.

    When I got into computers in the early 1990's, every small to medium sized company had a network built around their Novell NetWare servers. They all ran IPX instead of TCP/IP. NetWare 4 (1994) made IP a first-class citizen and by NetWare 5 (1998), it was IP-first with support for IPX only there for backwards compatibility.

    BTW, IPX was like a billion times better than NetBIOS, which was really the only consumer-level choice back then. The complexity of TCP/IP was unnecessary before everything got connected to the Internet.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I remember really outdated second-hand information that it made no distinction between VB6, VBA, VBScript and VB.Net. Please punch my aggressively ignorant face in.

    "Visual Basic .NET" and "Visual Basic" appear separately.



  • Maybe they've fixed it, I dunno.


  • :belt_onion:

    hehe I am considered one by its definition (could perhaps slip by if the definition did not insist on using a round number to start) but any article which has the word is doomed to be stupid.


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