Mohammed the clock kid cons country to get sneak peek at Obama's penis for TERRORISM!
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Perp walk the brown kid. Make America great again!
Right, it's because he wasn't white.
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If a brown kid says something's not a bomb, we have to believe him.
Whereas if a white kid says something's not a bomb, we just do believe him.
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We have this thing here in the US called "presumption of innocence". We're kind of proud of it, well, except in Texas I guess.
Tell that to the kid who got suspended for biting a Pop Tart into the shape of a gun last year.
"Pop Tart" suspension should be upheld, school official says
7-year-old boy suspended last year for chewing his Pop Tart into the shape of a gun; family's attorney vows challenge to disciplinary action
Schools have given up on the presumption of innocence. Now it's all about the idiotic "no tolerance" policies.
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Also, if someone built something that intentionally looked like a bomb with the intent to use it to scare people, that's also illegal. Just because it's not a bomb doesn't mean there was no crime committed.
Yeah, but if it looks like a clock and the kid consistently says that it is a clock...it is not a hoax bomb.
Seriously, when you find that @boomzilla and @flabdablet are on the same side of the argument...the other side is just wrong. Those fuckers never agree on anything.
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Pick out a country of almost only brown people.
Solve this.
x = (population / .85) - populationTake x white people and move them into that country. They are now 15% of the population.
Now, have a brown kid and a white kid in that country say somethings not a bomb.Take a brown adult.
Show them years of news about white people blowing up stuff.
Now tell them that they can't profile the white kid. Drill racism into their heads.
Ask them which way they'd phrase believing each kid."I have to believe the white kid, I don't want to be racist"
"Believe the brown kid? I just do!"
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In all fairness, all of those things are outlawed as weapons in Australia, because criminals cannot be trusted with safety scissors.
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You can't rely on them to not identify a bomb, either.
Yes you can. Compare amount of reported bombs vs amount of actual bombs. If someone tells you they believe they found a bomb, you can be absolutely sure that they didn't.
The fact that they identified something as a bomb doesn't mean it's not a bomb just because they're too dumb to reliably identify bombs.
Yes it does. Because actual bombs are disguised as not bombs, or intended to blow up before they are seen. Compare amount of bombs that blew up without being identified against amount of bombs that were correctly reported.I guess if someone really wanted to get away with it, they should make a bomb that looks like bombs in all the movies.
No, the people that get away with it hide the bombs.Also, if someone built something that intentionally looked like a bomb with the intent to use it to scare people, that's also illegal.
Yes, and as soon as you find a case of that actually happening, we can discuss that. We're discussing the case of someone doing the opposite of that, being cuffed, suspended, and threatened with charges.The cops had to come and investigate;
Yeah, and they could have done it in a competent way and dismissed the issue after chatting with the kid. They didn't do that, instead they confiscated the clock and arrested the kid.They were just doing their job
poorly. Embarrassingly, even. With an amazing degree of incompetence. But hey, they have such a difficult, dangerous job. We should forgive them for absolutely sucking at it.I'd just like to point out a double standard here:
Your examples show you don't know what a double standard is. You just described two different wrong things.If a brown kid says something's not a bomb, we have to believe him.
Yes, because there was absolutely nothing that would point to it being a bomb.if the cops arrest a brown kid, even though they explicitly said that they're not profiling, they obviously are
Yes, because they are the ones that arrested someone for no actual reason, even after admitting that they found no reason to arrest him. It's not a brush being used to paint all police forces. It's an accusation at the people that admitted to doing a stupid thing for no reason. I don't care if it was because they're scared of anything they don't understand, because they didn't want to seem ineffectual, or because the kid was brown. They did the opposite of their jobs.
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SAFETY scissors? Those scissors have a motherfucking LION! Lions are not safe! Are you out of your mind?
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as soon as you find a case of that actually happening, we can discuss that.
okay
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/steve-wozniak-in-jail-fake-bomb-2011-10
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Those scissors have a motherfucking LION! Lions are not safe! Are you out of your mind?
I learn from the mistakes of others. In this case, Roy Horn made the mistake for me.
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From that link:
He taught the other prisoners how to disconnect the wires leading to the ceiling fans and connect them to the bars so people got shocked when touching them.
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hey, they have such a difficult, dangerous job. We should forgive them for absolutely sucking at it.
https://twitter.com/DangerGuerrero/status/644200972093399040
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It is a bomb, marking the detonation of their economy.
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There are two issues here:
- Should they have been concerned about the device?
- Should they have arrested him?
And those two have exactly opposite answers.
I'm sorry, appearing at school with a ticking device, that might not have even resembled a clock, for what I know, and is in a case, and without any reason to do so (like a project, or assignment), is cause for concern.
Does it need to result in arrest? No.
But to dismiss it casually is just as insane.
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@anotherusername said:
They were just doing their job
poorly. Embarrassingly, even. With an amazing degree of incompetence. But hey, they have such a difficult, dangerous job. We should forgive them for absolutely sucking at it.Here's a quote that I found that sums up what I believe happened rather well:
@Ben Shapiro said:
But the attention paid to the story demonstrates the agenda of the media: once again painting the country as evil and nasty, instead of acknowledging that administrators make idiotic mistakes out of risk aversion.[1]
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That reminds me of when Mars Attacks! came out in cinemas. When the aliens blew that building up, there were cheers in the theatre. We don't really like our politicians.
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Yeah, I typoed the name. There was a movie a few years ago where they were in--as part of the "advertising", they put up a few light-up ones in a bunch of cities. Looked sort of like pedestrian walk lights. Most cities just laughed and took 'em down. Boston freaked out that they might be bombs. Then when other cities laughed, they doubled down about how it could have been bombs and then everyone else would've felt really stupid.
Ah, now that you've expanded on the story, I remember reading about that when it happened.
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I'd just like to point out a double standard here:
D00d, your'e just askin' for a sea lions comic.
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Now I will never be able to travel to the USA. You guys just used that "b" word in a thread I was in.
http://www.cnet.com/news/pink-fan-arrested-for-tweet-that-included-the-word-bomb/
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Fuck that--just Irving or Arlington, whichever this happened in.
I resemble that remark!
Seriously, when you find that @boomzilla and @flabdablet are on the same side of the argument...the other side is just wrong. Those fuckers never agree on anything.
+∞
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But the attention paid to the story demonstrates the agenda of the media: once again painting the country as evil and nasty, instead of acknowledging that administrators make idiotic mistakes out of risk aversion.
Administrators making idiotic mistakes out of risk aversion is evil and nasty, though. So... I don't get this statement.
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There are two issues here:
Should they have been concerned about the device?
Should they have arrested him?And those two have exactly opposite answers.
So if they should have been concerned about the device, they should not have arrested him, but if they should not have been concerned, they should have arrested him? I'm confused.
I'm sorry, appearing at school with a ticking device, that might not have even resembled a clock, for what I know, and is in a case, and without any reason to do so (like a project, or assignment), is cause for concern.
Look, it's easy. If you believe it was a bomb, you should evacuate the school and call the bomb squad. Then they show up, they say "it's not a bomb" and everyone goes home. Administrators would have over-reacted and we'd still make fun of them, but at least they were consistent.If you don't believe it's a bomb, you shouldn't do anything about the not-a-bomb because there is nothing to do.
The school was apparently concerned enough to call the police, but not concerned enough to actually take any precautions. That's a very specific level of concern.
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If you don't believe it's a bomb, you shouldn't do anything about the not-a-bomb because there is nothing to do.
If you think the person was trying to make people think it was a bomb, then there is something to do. The question is, why do they seem to be thinking along these lines still? There doesn't really seem to be evidence of that, but then, we just have the reporter's say so. I could definitely see the police being cautious about saying they're dropping a case without being thorough.
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The school was apparently concerned enough to call the police, but not concerned enough to actually take any precautions. That's a very specific level of concern.
I agree.
But when you criticize it without specifying that,
you come off as sounding like we should just ignore a ticking device because a Muslim is holding it.
It's an implied false dilemma because that's what liberals excel at, so that's what people have begun to expect.
How hard is THAT to understand.
The kid was warned multiple times that the device was suspicious, which is what most of the articles carelessly leave out.
Here's another thing to consider.
Look, it's easy. If you believe it was a
bombgun, you shouldevacuate the school and call the bomb squadarrest the kid.Then they show up, they say "it's not a bomb" and everyone goes home.Administratorswould haveover-reacted and we'd still make fun of them,but at least they were consistent.If you
don't believe it's a bombrealize it's just a pop-tart cut out in a crude shape that barely resembles a gun, you shouldn't do anything about the not-a-bombgun because there is nothing to do.The school was apparently concerned enough
to call the policesuspend the kid, but not concerned enough to actually take any precautions. That's a very specific level of concern.
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I thought it was more than one.
Maybe I was mistaken.
But if you think that the device shouldn't be investigated, you're mistaken.
I don't care if he's black, brown, white, or purple polka-dotted.
It's a beeping device in a case in a school.
Unless he walked in with it during a science fair, where he signed up to make a clock, it doesn't belong in school.
He doesn't get a pass because he happens to be brown.
Hell, I couldn't even have a cellphone at school when I went.
Who do they say does most of the school shootings? White kids?
Let a white kid walk in with a beeping case full of wires.
If the white kid isn't sent to the principal's office, while they investigate the device, there's your problem.
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@abarker said:
But the attention paid to the story demonstrates the agenda of the media: once again painting the country as evil and nasty, instead of acknowledging that administrators make idiotic mistakes out of risk aversion.
Administrators making idiotic mistakes out of risk aversion is evil and nasty, though. So... I don't get this statement.
No it isn't evil and nasty. Note the "idiotic mistakes". "Evil and nasty" requires malice, while "idiotic mistakes" don't.
Now the cops, on the other hand, may have had some malicious intent. From the media reports, it sounds like they were looking at recommending a charge for a crime that the kid couldn't possibly have been guilty of. But that's the cops. The quote was talking about the people at the school, so the decisions the cops made don't count.
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The school was apparently concerned enough to call the police, but not concerned enough to actually take any precautions. That's a very specific level of concern.
They did take precautions: they put the school on lockdown. Which just so happens to be the wrong precautions if you think there is a bomb on school grounds. This just goes to support my "incompetent administrators" theory.
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Unless the bomb was designed to get everyone to evacuate right into the line of fire of the gunmen waiting outside.
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Unless the bomb was designed to get everyone to evacuate right into the line of fire of the gunmen waiting outside.
In that case, there really isn't a right answer. Lock down and let everyone get blown up, or evacuate and let everyone get shot up? If you lock down, then hopefully the bomb is small enough that it won't kill everyone and it won't bring down the building. If you evacuate, hopefully you evacuate in a direction away from the shooters and they don't notice you leaving.
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It doesn't matter that a brown kid was detained when he entered a school with a beeping case full of wires without officially reporting it. It only matters if that would happen to a white kid. And I hope it would. I don't want beeping cases to go unnoticed because the color of the skin of the person carrying it.
Hell, I couldn't even have a solid backpack in highschool. It had to be mesh or clear plastic. I can hardly imagine what they'd do if it were beeping and full of wires.
Second note, police came to school and handcuffed kids for other reasons I would argue against, and that was at an all white school.
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It's a beeping device in a case in a school.
Same with the 500 cell phones and tablets at the school. Should those all be investigated? Because they beep?
Unless he walked in with it during a science fair, where he signed up to make a clock, it doesn't belong in school.
Fuck you. He built something cool. He wanted to show his teacher.
He doesn't get a pass because he happens to be brown.
I never mentioned race at all in this discussion. Scroll up and check.
Hell, I couldn't even have a cellphone at school when I went.
Sorry? I don't see how that's relevant to anything here.
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Same with the 500 cell phones and tablets at the school. Should those all be investigated? Because they beep?
That's not directly comparable.
A phone is a recognizable enclosed object.
And yes, if there's suspicion that it's acting in a way inconsistent with a phone, it should be investigated.
Just like a case with a wire beeping is acting in a way inconsistent with a normal case.
A direct comparison would be a phone that's emitting smoke.
"It's ok guys, it's a phone, we all have one."
"Um, it's emitting smoke. We're concerned that it's toxic."
"Assholes, that's my phone."Fuck you. He built something cool. He wanted to show his teacher.
That's a specific example.
Point being, he should have requested permission to bring it.
Some schools don't allow cell phones, because that particular school has a rampant problem with kids abusing them.
I never mentioned race at all in this discussion. Scroll up and check.
You didn't have to.
It's a concern I have after reading the commentary on the various articles, which sparked this discussion.
It's in the domain of the discussion.
Sorry? I don't see how that's relevant to anything here.
Directly relevant.
He walked in with a case, that behaved differently from any other case, by beeping.
If there was something beeping in a backpack, that would also get a student stopped by a teacher.
The invalid concern was that the cops and administration accosted him of building a mock-bomb to identify as a terrorist.
That was the racist act.
But the problem I'm having with the various discussions I'm in, is that we are parabola swinging from one extreme into another.
One where schools will feel afraid to investigate suspicious behavior.
The one school that gets shot up or explodes because the teachers didn't want to check the student out, will swing us back into another era of profiling and extreme prejudice.
Wild swinging is the problem in these discussions. Another political discussion that is polarized, where the rational answer to this situation is ignored in favor of replacing one extreme with another.
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One where schools will feel afraid to investigate suspicious behavior.
There was no suspicious behavior here. A kid built something cool. He wanted to show his teacher. That is not suspicious.
That's the disconnect we have.
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And he wasn't stopped until he entered another classroom, and a innocuous case suddenly started beeping.
It's not his "bringing a device and show his teacher" that's suspicious.
His behavior doesn't put him in the office.
His beeping case does.
When he got to the office, suddenly it changes from legitimate concern of an unknown object...
... into, he's building a mock bomb because he's a Muslim.What happened in the office, is what I disagree with.
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What use would a beeper be on a real bomb?
Even if you were dumb enough to build it with a hugely visible timer, a la movies, what would the beeps indicate?
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His beeping case does.
The English teacher asked what was in the box. He said it was a clock. He was not lying. There was no reason for the English teacher to think he was lying.
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And if they said,
I still have to send you to the principal to clear it,
he gets there,
they say he can't have it in school,
hold it until after school,
then when he leaves give it back to him.Would there have been a problem?
I don't think a student is hurt if he's brought to the office to clarify the intent of an unknown device.
All of that aside, it's beeping in class, that's a distraction.
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OK you know
what I am sick
of your free-verse
poetry
and you are dead wrong
on this as everybody sane knowsSo please go
fuck yourself.
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If the case started emitting smoke, and he said it was a stage device for concerts, and he was called into the office, would that have been wrong. I'm not saying he should have been arrested, but what people are telling me on forums is that no one should have even asked him what it was.
That's insane.
I'm not dead wrong on this. People are going to use this to swing into the other extreme of turning a blind eye to things so they don't offend someone, and someone's going to blow up a school because they aren't allowed to look in cases.
Alternatively, the school can be an ass to everyone and make a zero-tolerance policy rule that says that all electronic devices have to be approved by the office. At which point, if that's what it takes to avoid criticism and also protect the school, then so be it.
We'd be having this conversation even if the police didn't handcuff him and even if they didn't say "That's who I guessed". I've seen those conversations. People are more afraid of being politically labeled than they are of actually offending someone.
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what people are telling me on forums is that no one should have even asked him what it was.
Maybe before you comment further on this you should bother to read what actually happened.
A box full of circuit boards sits at the foot of Ahmed’s small bed in central Irving. His door marks the border where the Mohamed family’s cramped but lavishly decorated house begins to look like the back room at RadioShack.
“Here in high school, none of the teachers know what I can do,” Ahmed said, fiddling with a cable while a soldering iron dangled from the shelf behind him.He loved robotics club in middle school and was searching for a similar niche in his first few weeks of high school.
So he decided to do what he’s always done: He built something.
Ahmed’s clock was hardly his most elaborate creation. He said he threw it together in about 20 minutes before bedtime on Sunday: a circuit board and power supply wired to a digital display, all strapped inside a case with a tiger hologram on the front.
He showed it to his engineering teacher first thing Monday morning and didn’t get quite the reaction he’d hoped for.
“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’” Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’”
He kept the clock inside his school bag in English class, but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson. Ahmed brought his invention up to show her afterward.
“She was like, it looks like a bomb,” he said.
“I told her, ‘It doesn’t look like a bomb to me.’”
The teacher kept the clock. When the principal and a police officer pulled Ahmed out of sixth period, he suspected he wouldn’t get it back.
They led Ahmed into a room where four other police officers waited. He said an officer he’d never seen before leaned back in his chair and remarked: “Yup. That’s who I thought it was.”
Ahmed felt suddenly conscious of his brown skin and his name — one of the most common in the Muslim religion. But the police kept him busy with questions.The bell rang at least twice, he said, while the officers searched his belongings and questioned his intentions. The principal threatened to expel him if he didn’t make a written statement, he said.
“They were like, ‘So you tried to make a bomb?’” Ahmed said.
“I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.”
“He said, ‘It looks like a movie bomb to me.’”
Ahmed never claimed his device was anything but a clock, said police spokesman James McLellan. And police have no reason to think it was dangerous. But officers still didn’t believe Ahmed was giving them the whole story.
Emphasis mine.
Now, you can run all the what-if hypothetical counter-scenarios you want, but this was straight-up racist bullying. There is simply no other plausible explanation for the actions of the school and police authorities here.
People are going to use this to swing into the other extreme of turning a blind eye to things so they don't offend someone
Only in your own weird little fantasy world.
In a recognizably real world not completely fucked up with racist bullshit, any decent person would look at a lashed-together electronics project a kid has shown them after class, ask the kid what it is, and when he says "I made it, it's a clock" they'd say "Fair enough. Keep it quiet in class, would you?" and that would be the end of it.
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Unless the bomb was designed to get everyone to evacuate right into the line of fire of the gunmen waiting outside.
The IRS gunmen who repelled out of their black helicopters.
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Relevant story: In junior high school, my very strange group of friends and I brought in a whole bunch of batteries of mixed types, mostly C Cells and 9-volts, and wire and duct tape. We connected them all into series and made a ~100V DC battery, and were making sparks on doorknobs with it.
Well, we got caught with it and sent to the principal's office. It was brief. "That looks like a bomb. Put it away and don't bring it back to school."
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They got their data from the NSA, you know.
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The IRS gunmen who
repelledrappelledout of their black helicopters.FTFY. Unless the kids were trying to board the helicopters and the IRS gunmen were repelling their attempts.
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what would the beeps indicate?
Nothing. But what they'd be for is getting people closer to something that disperses a biological or shrapnel or the like, and they'd last about long enough to get people's attention without getting them to be alarmed.
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That's not directly comparable.
A phone is a recognizable enclosed object.
Uh, yes it is. Cell phones are--or at least used to be--commonly used as triggering devices for IEDs in Iraq.
BTW I don't recall anywhere reading that this kid's clock was beeping, which kind of puts a hole in your argument.
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Relevant story: In junior high school, my very strange group of friends and I brought in a whole bunch of batteries of mixed types, mostly C Cells and 9-volts, and wire and duct tape. We connected them all into series and made a ~100V DC battery, and were making sparks on doorknobs with it.
Well, we got caught with it and sent to the principal's office. It was brief. "That looks like a bomb. Put it away and don't bring it back to school."
LOL, nice! I already said upthread I once brought a touch-tone keypad into school and explicitly told people it was a bomb. This was the 80s though and I already had a reputation as a smartass. I'm sure you're all shocked.
I like your principal, though. One of my HS teachers brought in a Van de Graaf generator and tried to get us to form a human line out into the hall so we could shock people with it.
