:wtf: How can this be so wrong??? (AKA the Discopocalypse thread)
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What part of "Your application is a giant unmaintainable mess of MacGyver spaghetti" did not understand?
He did understand. In fact, this is the second time this week he's argued that the unmaintainable mess is intentional:
- No one can understand the source code, so no one will write exploits, spam bots, etc.
- No one can optimize Discourse for scale, so can make money.
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No one can optimize Discourse for scale
I don't know if nobody can, but TCDCK seem to be unable to do it.
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No one can optimize Discourse for scale, so can make money.
Given Jeff's displayed business acumen, I'd wager $500 CDCK is losing money every month and he's got VCs breathing down his neck to get his shit out of the red and into the black.
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get his shit out of the red and into the black
Civilised people use white porcelain for that sort of thing. Or possibly stainless steel.
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Jeff misses the point, just for a change.
we are literally selling deep knowledge of Discourse as we wrote it in the first place
Deep knowledge of Discourse but deep knowledge of fuck all else.
Why the is Discourse open-source if they don't really want anyone else to host it?
I've always thought products which are both open source and commercial are
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Deep knowledge of Discourse but deep knowledge of fuck all else.
What do they call it when you actually understand Discourse?
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I think it's like getting a glimpse of the Old Ones.
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@Jeff; Lord of the Disco Dancing Horses said:
If it takes two engineers four months to build out a big Discourse installation, that means it costs the company between $80,000 and $120,000 just to get Discourse deployed and configured and stable at high volume.
Wat?
I haven't got much experience of deploying software on a huge scale, but if it takes more than a week to get a stable deployment in place with 1 person, then your software has a major fucking problem. Can anybody provide me with examples to counter this?
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Can anybody provide me with examples to counter this?
OracleApps, Siemens MedSeries, Lotus Domin--
Oh. COUNTER examples.
Sorry no.
Even for all the griping I do about how shitty Microsoft SQL Server's installer is, even the most complicated configuration exercising all of its replication, backup, reporting, etc. features would not take a single person more than a few weeks.
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LOL. I like how the next guy replies:
I was worried about that getting Jeff'd, but Himself Liked it, so I guess it will be staying.
I guess Jeff assumes these guys are taking time to inspect Discourse to figure out how to integrate it with various different services and submitting PRs or something. I'm certainly no OPs guy, but that shit is ludicrous for a forum.
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Had a quick look at those and they all appear to require
over pricedexpensive consultants to customise them to your deployment scenario. I'm pretty sure all the customisation you need for discourse does not require Jeff to customise it.Plus I don't think I would pay IBM rates for Jeff...
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In case of Jeffing:
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Why the is Discourse open-source if they don't really want anyone else to host it?
For the same reason Canonical made Launchpad open-source, despite it being supposedly impossible to host yourself - free slave labour:
@Jeff said:
That said, if you'd like to contribute effort towards making the open source story for case #3 better, we're completely open to that.
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If it takes two engineers four months to build out a big Discourse installation, that means it costs the company between $80,000 and $120,000 just to get Discourse deployed and configured and stable at high volume.
Oh my shit.
The company I work for makes a full-fledged e-commerce site that plugs into Navision (Microsoft ERP). It does the whole thing-- browser catalogs, view items, submit orders, RMAs, order history, take credit card payments. It has responsive design. It integrates with various shipping agents. It does VAT. It is very well architectured, and can be customized. Most new customers of ours will require a butt-load of customizations to replicate their business rules, logic, needs.
Implementing an instance of the system-- even for our most heavily customized and special customers-- would take SIGNIFICANTLY less than eight man-months to implement.
For fuck's sake-- for $120k, I'd expect them to be able to build Discourse FROM SCRATCH.
How can I make money from being completely delusional? Like, seriously-- how the fuck does Jeff get investors, but Swampy doesn't?
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Thank you for confirming I don't just have unrealistic expectations, and that Jeff is a moron. Not that I really needed the second part confirming, but every little helps.
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Hahaha:
[quote=sam]
I am very confused what exactly are you asking for? Can you provide 5 one sentence bullet points?
[/quote]Here, let me try:
- Make.
- Your.
- Software
- Not.
- Shit.
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Can I give it a go?
- Go.
- Back.
- To.
- Flipping.
- Burgers.
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Oh boy, it just keeps getting better!
@sam said:
There is a lot of knowledge in our base image, we install
particular versions of ImageMagick, pngcrush etc. We install a
particular version of Ruby and jemalloc.When it comes to running Discourse we are particular about using unicorn and forking out sidekiq to conserve memory.
Nothing is stopping you building images base on our base images and then launching them with composer if that is how you roll.
But there is a lot of knowledge baked into our process you are
throwing away if you simply put your hands up and say "you are doing it
wrong" and go and start from scratch.I can't help myself but wonder whether there being "a lot of knowledge" is code for "we somehow managed to get it running, to this date we haven't figured out how and every time we tried replicating it we failed spectacularly so best not touch it!"
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You think Swampy should start up a blog?
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To expand: its hard to sell shit software to developers. But it's easier to sell it to business folks, to end users. They don't know what to look for, so you show up, tell them what they want, and tell them about how your software fills the need you just sold them on. marketing skills.
Swampy's brand of crazy is widely accessible. You show up and he starts pitching you on alien artifacts, you write him off. Jeff's brand doesn't rear its ugly head until you shelled out, migrated, and now have some degree of lock-in.
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Jeff's brand doesn't rear its ugly head until you shelled out, migrated, and now have some degree of lock-in.
Didn't it take less than 24 hours for TDWTF to find like 3 major security issues?
I would LOVE to run through the "security scanning software" we have at work but ya know, raisins.
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@sam said:
How are you going to run asset precompilation and db migration?
...
now we would need a data volume for our precompiled assets that gets somehow shared between 2 images.
He keeps talking about precompiling assets. Does anyone know wtf he means, because no definition of "asset" that I know of involves any form of compiling.
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Ya know, the anon-vatars...oh shit. Those are on the Disco-CDN that buckles under so much as a sneeze. ACTUAL pre-compiling would trade individual CPU Time for trivial space. Can't charge for the CDN if we include it in the
DockerLusitania image.
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using unicorn and forking out sidekiq to conserve memory.
So Discourse's current state is with it conserving memory?!
Sheeeeeeeeeit.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
how the fuck does Jeff get investors, but Swampy doesn't?
Because Jeff is an incompetent, delusional, arrogant, rude prick, but he's not bat-shit crazy?
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So Discourse's current state is with it conserving memory?!
Conserving all the system's memory for itself, I assume.
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Sam's definitely graduated from the Jeff school of bullshit since the Discopocalypse.
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Does anyone know wtf he means
CSS can be compiled from LESS or whatever your poison of choice is into proper CSS that can be read by the browser.
Image minification is sometimes also lumped into "asset compilation", as well as JS minification and... whatever the word is for stitching the files together into one file.
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I can't help myself but wonder whether there being "a lot of knowledge" is code for "we somehow managed to get it running, to this date we haven't figured out how and every time we tried replicating it we failed spectacularly so best not touch it!"
If you replace "knowledge" with "cruft", the original statement makes a lot more sense.
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Sam's definitely graduated from the Jeff school of bullshit since the Discopocalypse.
He's devoted, what, two years or his life to at this point? More than long enough for the sunk cost fallacy to properly kick in.
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he's just spitting out "tech-y-kinda" words
Did anyone ever check to see if he wrote for any of the Star Trek shows?
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Any time I hear "we run a particular version of X" it make me want to reach for my revolver. (I see a lot of this in the ERP world: "You must use Progress 10.2A06 with this list of hotfixes or the application won't work!")
Meanwhile my company's application will work with any point release of Progress released since like 2001. Why? Because we made the tiniest amount of effort not to use version-specific quirks. There's some minor drawbacks in that we can't take advantage of new language features, but there haven't been that many that wouldn't also require code rewrites.
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Of course, those sites are full of idiots, and if your site starts doing it, we'll ban you all from meta.d
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CSS can be compiled from LESS or whatever your poison of choice is into proper CSS that can be read by the browser.
I'd say that doesn't make any sense because enums and databases have nothing to do with CSS... but this is :dick::sores:, so nothing is off the table.
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Fuck you Jeff, some of this shit is funny, you're just angry we're "Doing It Wrong™" by not using our real names so people can find our blogs and stroke our e-peens.
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Even if I had a blog it wouldn't be under my real name. All this resurgence of online services demanding a real name (it's "John Doe" if you really need to know) pisses me off.
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Is there no admon setting to change the name used on email notifications? At the moment it uses whatever the field is we fill with shite, so I get emails from "The Dominatrix of Debugging" rather than "Yamikuronue". Guess which of those would be the more useful value...
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According to the post below on meta.d there should be a setting for it, don't know if @PJH spotted it yet:
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I've had some far worse ones pop up in my inbox...
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Same. I just happened to have an email from yami at the top when I posted that...
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I'm pretty sure all the customisation you need for discourse does not require Jeff to customise it.
[code]
rm -rf discourse/
wget http://communityserver.org/latest.asp
[/code]
Can't be any worse, right?No, I don't think that is the right URL either.
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Is there no admon setting to change the name used on email notifications?
No. I see ways to change the email subject and the reply to address, but that's it.
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Oh, I was answering in the general CAse. I have 0 insight to discourse.
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Such as "Fuck you Discourse, why can't I..."
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According to the post below on meta.d there should be a setting for it, don't know if @PJH spotted it yet:
Could only find this after a quick search for 'mail'...
enable names
Show the user's full name on their profile, user card, and emails. Disable to hide full name everywhere.Emphasis mine.