In other news today...
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@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
Put more money on it and it will speed things up
It's totally possible to put humans on Mars by 2020.
But if you want them to be alive when they get there, that's another story
and : I wouldn't consider getting corpses of any kind to Mars to be a successful mission. We've already successfully gotten non-alive payloads there.
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@mikehurley said in In other news today...:
We've already successfully gotten non-alive payloads there.
None of those were human
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@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
It's totally possible to put humans on Mars by 2020.
Is it? AFAIK, we can only propel spacecraft to Mars at a very small fraction of c, and it's quite far away.
Filed under: you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space
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@hungrier I think a Hohmann transfer orbit takes six months to get you there, when the planets are lined up correctly. I don't know how often those alignments occur.
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@hungrier said in In other news today...:
Is it? AFAIK, we can only propel spacecraft to Mars at a very small fraction of c, and it's quite far away.
are to
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@mott555 According to my extensive research, the minimum distance between Earth and Mars is 54.6 million km, and maximum is 401 million km. So assuming that 6 month figure would be at the minimum distance, it could take up to 4 years or so, depending on how the orbits line up.
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@mott555 Average of the half orbital period of earth and mars, isn't it?
googles
wikipedias
For a space mission between Earth and Mars, for example, these launch windows occur every 26 months. A Hohmann transfer orbit also determines a fixed time required to travel between the starting and destination points; for an Earth-Mars journey this travel time is 9 months.
More importantly there is a window only every other year. And I don't know if they'd want to do an unmanned trip with the manned vessel all the way to Mars first.
At this point, I think even a manned landing on the moon before December 2022 (50 years after the last one) may get difficult.
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@hungrier said in In other news today...:
So assuming that 6 month figure would be at the minimum distance, it could take up to 4 years or so, depending on how the orbits line up.
That's not quite how transfer orbits work, but I'm not going to start a lecture on orbital dynamics. That's what Kerbal Space Program is for.
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@JBert ... Ok, I'm going to say it. Users are TRWTF. The icon is "upload to cloud". If they don't know that means that it's going to save the screenshot to some server somewhere on the internet, that's on them.
That said, there's no real good reason why Firefox should even have a back-end server to capture screenshots, much less display the "upload this screenshot to the cloud somewhere" option so prominently. Most people just want the screenshot, and not surprisingly, Mozilla found that the "copy" and "download" options were much more frequently used. What's the purpose of the cloud link? Is it supposed to be a shareable link? That's what imgur is for.
Also, it would be a good idea if they had some kind of opt-in notice the first time a user clicked on it, informing them that the screenshot would be stored on Mozilla's server and giving them the option to accept this and save the preference, or to cancel and go back.
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@anotherusername said in In other news today...:
@JBert ... Ok, I'm going to say it. Users are TRWTF. The icon is "upload to cloud". If they don't know that means that it's going to save the screenshot to some server somewhere on the internet, that's on them.
Checks out.
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@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
It's totally possible to put humans on Mars by 2020.
2020… at what point did that become next year?
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@kazitor said in In other news today...:
@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
It's totally possible to put humans on Mars by 2020.
2020… at what point did that become next year?
About 24 days ago?
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@Benjamin-Hall said in In other news today...:
@kazitor said in In other news today...:
@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
It's totally possible to put humans on Mars by 2020.
2020… at what point did that become next year?
About 24 days ago?
I really need to "INB4" more often.
INB4: I can't think of something to INB4
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@loopback0 paywall
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@pie_flavor FFS. There wasn't the other day!
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@hungrier said in In other news today...:
Is it? AFAIK, we can only propel spacecraft to Mars at a very small fraction of c, and it's quite far away.
Vaguely relevant (via Mr. Thompson):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSqFBbNtt9c&feature=youtu.be
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Some of the technical details are interesting but the article doesn't really touch on them too deeply. What I'm curious about is how much grunt is behind deepmind? Is it a single ryzen 5 2600 or a 200 cpu cluster that requires enough power to run a village for a year? It's an angle no-one really explores. Yes we have ais that can beat chess masters but it's taking the equilivant of thirty windmills to beat 2000 calories of human effort. Kind of takes the edge off terminator when you imagine it falling over when it's batteries run out.
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@loopback0 said in In other news today...:
@pie_flavor FFS. There wasn't the other day!
Meanwhile, Google has bunged its own basic ad blocking into its browser.
Lol, nice. I'm sure they'd never abuse that by only blocking non-Google ads.
I can already hear the whining about anti-trust fines being too high.
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
What I'm curious about is how much grunt is behind deepmind?
Vast amounts. Standard AI is pretty expensive in energy terms, and it is extremely expensive when it is undergoing a learning cycle (instead of being in pure inference mode, when it's just a bunch of glorified signal processing). I work on systems that are a whole lot more energy efficient and which can do true online learning, but even those are many orders of magnitude less efficient than a biological brain.
In short, if you gave DeepMind an energy budget of 2000 kcal/day, even I'd be able to beat it at any game you care to mention. Your average diet will only support a 500W machine (which DeepMind definitely isn't!) for just over 4½ hours.
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
and it is extremely expensive when it is undergoing a learning cycle (instead of being in pure inference mode, when it's just a bunch of glorified signal processing).
That's clear, but I think the question is about the latter: Once learning is done and it's playing ("in pure inference mode", as you put it) how much energy does it consume?
For your classical chess AIs, that's still "all of it", since they're searching through a massive space of possible moves. Your modern image processing AIs, on the other hand, are blazingly fast once trained.The "Deep" in DeepMind implies they also use the modern DL stuff, but it might be some mixed approach?
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
Once learning is done and it's playing ("in pure inference mode", as you put it) how much energy does it consume?
That's actually a bit tricky to find out, but it's apparently a whole datacenter with a yearly budget for energy in the region of 150 million dollars. What the actual amount of energy that corresponds to for the class of problem we're dealing with here isn't clear at all.
Our energy budget (for our research system) is much less than a thousandth of that, for comparison. And our brains' energy budget is multiple orders of magnitude less than that again (I suspect that's in part because quantum mechanical effects make the detailed processing activity much lower energy than you might naïvely think).
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
And our brains' energy budget is multiple orders of magnitude less than that again (I suspect that's in part because quantum mechanical effects make the detailed processing activity much lower energy than you might naïvely think).
And because our algorithms are a combination of a) better and b) horribly imprecise and heuristic.
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This slave labour malarkey is getting out of hand. First we take their cheap shit. Then we take the cheap shit they wear. Now we're taking their bones. I think we need to draw a line here and say enough is enough. You may keep your organs but I want two pints of blood a week until two weeks postmortem. I've got children to feed.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
That's clear, but I think the question is about the latter: Once learning is done and it's playing ("in pure inference mode", as you put it) how much energy does it consume?
They mentioned it in the stream. The AI runs on a single commercial GPU when playing ("inference mode"). Don't think they said which one exactly, other than it being high-end. But that puts it into the 200W - 250W region, I guess.
It was trained elsewhere (Google's TPUs). They mentioned some numbers, but I don't remember those. Vastly more than a single GPU, though (but they also run faster than real-time when training).
Edit: another interesting thing was that it only made inferences roughly every 50ms (IIRC), which is not that fast.
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Belgians terrorised by ducks
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@loopback0
Pfff ... Mechelen is practically Florida
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Meanwhile in Toronta, Canada:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5tBHMkzD4
Seems the road doesn't have any snow. Is this the Florida of Canada then?
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
This slave labour malarkey is getting out of hand. First we take their cheap shit. Then we take the cheap shit they wear. Now we're taking their bones. I think we need to draw a line here and say enough is enough. You may keep your organs but I want two pints of blood a week until two weeks postmortem. I've got children to feed.
Linked from that story:
And of course, how could a story of medical benefits of could be complete without this?
Filed under: Nope thread is
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@DogsB said in In other news today...:
This slave labour malarkey is getting out of hand. First we take their cheap shit. Then we take the cheap shit they wear. Now we're taking their bones. I think we need to draw a line here and say enough is enough. You may keep your organs but I want two pints of blood a week until two weeks postmortem. I've got children to feed.
Linked from that story:
And of course, how could a story of medical benefits of could be complete without this?
Filed under: Nope thread is
I hope to retire soon from selling my feces.
That or I'll keep programming.
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@Gribnit There's very little difference.
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@HardwareGeek That's The
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@Benjamin-Hall said in In other news today...:
And because our algorithms are a combination of a) better and b) horribly imprecise and heuristic.
Arguably, they're better exactly because they're imprecise and heuristic. Also, our algorithms don't actually run just once. They run again and again with some adaptation from the previous runs. That puts them ahead of most computation.
I'm actually serious about those points BTW. We don't usually need exact answers, and don't ever get exact inputs for those questions either. Better to save energy than waste it on getting exact answers to figure out high precision bits of noise, and when we actually need precision, reevaluating the algorithm over time (e.g., the key to how we catch a ball) works far better than limiting yourself to the minimum number of measurements and calculations.
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@JBert said in In other news today...:
Seems the road doesn't have any snow. Is this the Florida of Canada then?
I guess that rather a lot of salt was used. So it's warmer than 0℉…
(It isn't the Florida of Canada though. That's Vancouver in BC, not Toronto.)
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More reasons to hate Facebook
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This is actually quite interesting. I suspected this for a while but didn't realise how pervasive Amazon had become.
check the app to see what my daughter is eating or excreting.
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@DogsB This bit had me going
[...] So in addition to having the VPN ban all IP addresses controlled by Amazon, I need to shut down the Amazon Echo and Echo Dot in our house. [...] I think about simply unplugging them, but I am worried someone might plug them back in. (My husband, for example, who refuses to do the block along with me on the grounds that he has a “real job.”)
“Why don’t you just put them in a drawer?” asks Dhruv.
Incredibly, this hadn’t occurred to me. The Echo has become such a fixture in the household, I hadn’t conceived of just putting it away.
"Yess, preciousss, we'll keep you safe from the nastiesss..."
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From the 1984-wasn't-a-manual department:
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Having to run to a physical store rather than opening my Amazon app every time the house runs out of paper towels is annoying,
It would never occur to me not to run to a physical store for something like that.
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@HardwareGeek I'm not a user of paper towels, but one of the things I check on Saturdays before going for the weekly groceries is how much toilet paper I've got left. If more than 1½ rolls, I know I'm good.
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@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
If more than 1½ rolls, I know I'm good.
Won't name any names, but a few monkeys in my household use nearly two rolls a day when they're here.
I'm surprised the fucking toilet doesn't clog.
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@Tsaukpaetra I'm surprised that monkeys use toilet paper.
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@Gribnit said in In other news today...:
@Tsaukpaetra I'm surprised that monkeys use toilet paper.
Once we got them to stop throwing shit everywh--I I can't say it with a straight face.
They still do that too.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
If more than 1½ rolls, I know I'm good.
Won't name any names, but a few monkeys in my household use nearly two rolls a day when they're here.
I'm surprised the fucking toilet doesn't clog.
We do have an extra variable to deal with - I get large 800-sheet rolls of two-layer paper. If you've got the 6-layer extra-soft stuff which only has 100 sheets per roll, the number of rolls used will be higher.
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@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
@Tsaukpaetra said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
If more than 1½ rolls, I know I'm good.
Won't name any names, but a few monkeys in my household use nearly two rolls a day when they're here.
I'm surprised the fucking toilet doesn't clog.
We do have an extra variable to deal with - I get large 800-sheet rolls of two-layer paper. If you've got the 6-layer extra-soft stuff which only has 100 sheets per roll, the number of rolls used will be higher.
We get the technically-2-ply stuff. Once they wasted a pack of the good stuff it was never purchased again.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
@Tsaukpaetra said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
If more than 1½ rolls, I know I'm good.
Won't name any names, but a few monkeys in my household use nearly two rolls a day when they're here.
I'm surprised the fucking toilet doesn't clog.
We do have an extra variable to deal with - I get large 800-sheet rolls of two-layer paper. If you've got the 6-layer extra-soft stuff which only has 100 sheets per roll, the number of rolls used will be higher.
We get the technically-2-ply stuff. Once they wasted a pack of the good stuff it was never purchased again.
At least you CAN theoretically get the good stuff.
I have to use either 1-ply or that really thin 2-ply because the waste outflow pipe that's embedded in my house's foundation is narrower than the pipe on either side of it, and is thus prone to getting clogged up with paper if the paper doesn't get past it and out into the sewer lines.
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@e4tmyl33t said in In other news today...:
narrower than the pipe on either side of it,
Oof. Yeah my house was built with 2" pipes. I have no idea what size the toilets are, but it's a quarterly thing to evacuate the main shower drain.
In other news, trying to clone a PC's disks. Clonezilla crashes unless it's in safe mode. This will be fun...