Renewable Energy Research - Internet Flamewars
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@Rhywden said:
Those crashproof plastic tanks won't be the exact epitome of cheap either.
Welcome to realizing my point. All I ever said, originally, was that a H2-gas tank would probably cost more--maybe a lot more, but I don't know--than the ones in use today.
Erm, there are already such gas tanks in use and on the road - and they fulfill all security criteria.
They may even be more secure than gasoline ones.
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Erm, there are already such gas tanks in use and on the road - and they fulfill all security criteria.They may even be more secure than gasoline ones.
Ah, you're back to missing my point again. It's rather the opposite of refreshing.
Carry on talking past me.
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Ah, you're back to missing my point again. It's rather the opposite of refreshing.
Carry on talking past me.
Maybe I'm missing your point because you never had one to begin with.
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Maybe I'm missing your point because you never had one to begin with.
Maybe your reading comprehension sucks shit, because I've repeatedly mentioned cost. But since you are even worse than Blakeyrat at getting the point, I'll make it explicit: how much extra do those tanks that are already on the road cost, over regular tanks? You have to know that to be able to evaluate whether it's worth using them. If, to use an absurd example, they added $50,000 to the cost of a car, it'd be stupid to try to switch to H2-burning.
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Those tanks aren't expensive. They are very similar to those used for liquid gas.
A whole conversion kit for my car to run on liquid gas as well as gasoline would cost me about 500€ - that's including the tank and the equipment needed for the engine and excluding the work costs.
edit: Just looked on eBay - they're selling new liquid gas tanks for about a 100€.
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So, you're saying Mr. Fusion is a lie?
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Even without fuel reprocessing and assuming zero improvement in reactor efficiency, the supply is sufficient for at least 200 years
Actually, the reserves of Uranium will last 200 years.
Reserves are the stuff that's been measured, counted and known to be economic to extract and process with current technology at current market prices.
The actual amount in the ground is some orders of magnitude more. Same for oil, actually.
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I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it
I would and am, because it can't even make back its production energy debt.
It takes more energy to make then it can ever generate.Seriously, making them is killing polar bears.
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Seriously, making them is killing polar bears.
If we had one, that would earn Hyperbole
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The UK's National Grid has published a few white papers on the subject of wind and baseload.
The summary of the summary is that wind is ok up to around 20% of total demand, but any higher requires aggressive "demand management".
More usually known as rolling blackouts.
In a place with an extremely high percentage of hydro can probably go higher, but in the UK's case, that means flooding Scotland. All of it.
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http://www.chempage.de/versuche/AC/AC 050/gasflasche1.jpg
The first valve (it's the bottom one in the picture) reduces pressure down to manageable levels (it's also reversed - you don't screw it "open", you screw it "shut" to open the valve), the second one to the right then opens to the outside.
The first valve is actually the big knob on top of the cylinder. The "bottom one in the picture" is actually the pressure adjustment handle, which controls the amount of force applied by a spring to a diaphragm inside the regulator body. The spring force (plus atmospheric pressure) on one side of the diaphragm balances the gas pressure on the other side to open or close a valve inside the regulator. The knob to the right is actually a third, outlet valve.
I wouldn't bet lunch on that setup (above) getting a 4- rating in a crash test.
That setup wouldn't be hauled around in a truck (at least not the kind of truck you're talking about; it's not unusual to see a welder driving around in a truck with an oxy-acetylene rig ready to use when he/she gets to the job site). The valve on the cylinder would be closed, the regulator removed (left-hand thread hex nut just below the cylinder valve knob is part of the regulator, and attaches it to threads on the cylinder), and a protective steel cap screwed over the cylinder valve (just above the whitish ring on the cylinder).
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in the UK's case, that means flooding Scotland. All of it.
And the English would object?
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And the English would object?
It might cause much of Scotland to break away from the Union.
That much weight, it'd probably snap clean off along the Falkirk - Glasgow line!More seriously, while it's the only way to do what the SNP promised last year, the locals would object.
Quite strongly. They might even get another American to make a movie with kilts and swords in it.
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>ijij:
I wouldn't bet lunch on that setup (above) getting a 4- rating in a crash test.That setup wouldn't be hauled around in a truck ...
To be fair, "above" covered a whollota territory... I meant my description of the truck situation, not the in-use setup.
Didn't know if right-pondians have flatbeds with secured gas bottles standing en-masse in the back. So... explaining was a
to clarity.return( normal_ranting);
OHONOSSS!! Those bottled gas cylinders are on the road and we're going to die@!!!! NO to cars carrying the moral equivalent of bombs!!!! AAAAAAhhhhhhhh.
Well. No.... But 3000 psi or even just 200 Bar ;) is still a wee cause for caution
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They might even get another American to make a movie with kilts and swords in it.
Highlander sequel?? YES!
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HEY! Nuclear Power enthusiasts!
The Smithsonian is hosting a tour of Oak Ridge, where all of your experimental reactor goodness live(d). 10/3-10/6
Includes other ultra-high-tech facilities as well.
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Those bottled gas cylinders are on the road and we're going to die@!!!! NO to cars carrying the moral equivalent of bombs!!!! AAAAAAhhhhhhhh.
Moral equivalent of bombs, nothing.
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If we had one, that would earn Hyperbole
.So would at least half of a certain rodent's posts, so it's a good thing we don't have that
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without the generation infrastructure all it does is move the emissions elsewhere
And reduce them overall, by virtue of the electric drivetrain's superior conversion efficiency.
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all that's in the way is Greenpeace, NIMBYism, and health-and-safety red tape
That, plus the fact that nuclear reactors are so uneconomical to build, fuel, maintain and decommission that the only people willing to fund them are governments; the private sector won't invest in them because their ROI is simply not commercially viable.
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Lockheed Martin claims to be about 5 years from producing a commercially-viable fusion reactor design.
That's the same Lockheed Martin that got in bed with Eestor, yes?
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That, plus the fact that nuclear reactors are so uneconomical to build, fuel, maintain and decommission that the only people willing to fund them are governments; the private sector won't invest in them because their ROI is simply not commercially viable.
And that doesn't have to do with NIMBYs and red tape how?
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storing solar output for nighttime
is the normal operation mode for a molten salt solar thermal plant.
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Has your school ever collided with another school at 70 miles per hour?
If it did, I would expect the thin-walled non-pressurized liquid fuel storage containers to rupture much more readily than those with walls built to contain thousands of pounds per square inch of internal pressure.
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is the normal operation mode for a molten salt solar thermal plant.
True, and I didn't specify the solar technology I meant. But I didn't mean that sort of plant. Which looks promising. Especially if you like roasted birds. Oh, man...is it lunch time yet?
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Hundreds per year?
I know right? That's not even enough for Thanksgiving in a small city. This alternative energy shit just does not scale.
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Many people keep making that claim, but it simply isn't an argument for any type of renewable. It's an argument for coal.
Nuclear plant is expensive compared to coal, oil and gas plant (if you ignore carbon tariffs).
It is however a lot cheaper than the equivalent nameplate-rating of solar, wind or hydro - and takes up much less space, lasts longer and outputs full capacity 24 hours a day, on demand.
Not as fast to start or stop as hydro, and pumped storage is important to have.
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And reduce them overall, by virtue of the electric drivetrain's superior conversion efficiency.
Nope. There are significant losses in the generating plant, distribution network, and battery charging system, which offset the improved electric drivetrain.
Last time I did the figures (UK mix), pure-electric had almost the same carbon dioxide emissions as petrol, and notably higher than diesel.It's probably improved since then, however so have petrol and diesel engines.
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@HardwareGeek said:
>ijij:
I wouldn't bet lunch on that setup (above) getting a 4- rating in a crash test.That setup wouldn't be hauled around in a truck ...
To be fair, "above" covered a whollota territory... I meant my description of the truck situation, not the in-use setup.
Didn't know if right-pondians have flatbeds with secured gas bottles standing en-masse in the back. So... explaining was a
to clarity.return( normal_ranting);
OHONOSSS!! Those bottled gas cylinders are on the road and we're going to die@!!!! NO to cars carrying the moral equivalent of bombs!!!! AAAAAAhhhhhhhh.
Well. No.... But 3000 psi or even just 200 Bar ;) is still a wee cause for caution
Then again, those gas cylinders don't have the relieve valve gas tanks in cars actually have - the explosions from the Russian video stem from this very fact. If they had such valves, there'd be a relatively huge flame, yes, but no explosion.
In one experiment years back, BMW actually set fire to a liquid gas and a gasoline car. The gasoline car burnt out completely whereas the gas car only burned in the area of the relief valve
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If they had such valves, there'd be a relatively huge flame, yes, but no explosion.
Those things are fun...I may or may not be well-known in some circles for lighting these on fire, and occasionally even shooting them once they're going:
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Let's just burn more wood!
Deforestation in the UK
by Judith Curry More wood being burnt from British woods than since industrial revolution. – David Rose
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OHONOSSS!! Those bottled gas cylinders are on the road and we're going to die@!!!! NO to cars carrying the moral equivalent of bombs!!!! AAAAAAhhhhhhhh.
You mean the little box that all cars have that contain little explosions at a rate that would blow your mind?
