Discourse is slow on Android. Why?
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Your "engineering company" has 90% desktops with a CPU from a decade ago?
What.. kind.. of engineering do you do there?
Does accounting, HR, etc....count as engineering?
Accounting: fiscal engineering
HR: social engineering
Facilities: waste engineering
Marketing: see "Facilities"
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Your "engineering company" has 90% desktops with a CPU from a decade ago?
What.. kind.. of engineering do you do there?
so do we.
turns out salespeople don't need that powerful of a computer to get their job done.
our servers and devboxes on the other hand are pretty modern. I did make it a point to requesition an older laptop so i could have a test machine that matched what the users actually have.
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It's pretty common in the business world from my experience. My current job mostly has semi-recent workstations, but at my last job we were using computers that would have been brand-new when I was in junior high school (early Pentium 4 era). Because they still worked and still got the job done, albeit very slowly with some tasks, not worth the money to upgrade in the bosses' minds unless one fails.
We had such good improvements in hardware from 2002 - 2004 that many of those machines are still used because they are still good enough for basic PC tasks. Contrast that to 2002, when hardly anyone was using PCs from the late 1980's.
I even have a spare Pentium M (slightly tweaked Pentium III architecture IIRC) laptop, an old Dell I rescued from the garbage heap at work. Despite being over ten years old, it plays Minecraft at 30+ FPS and thus I've kept it.
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Despite being over ten years old, it plays Minecraft at 30+ FPS and thus I've kept it.
impressive. the 4 year old desktop gaming rig i'm replacing next month has decided that it's only going to do 20FPS for MC1.8, but it was doing well over 120FPS happily for the MC1.7 series.
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At work, the non-tech people have Pentium Ds and people like me have Core2 Quads.
Yep.Btw, Firefox on Xubuntu on my less-than-a-year-old Core i5 Haswell notebook:
.--------------------------------------------------------------. | Ember Performance Suite - Ember 1.8.0-beta.5 | |--------------------------------------------------------------| | Name | # Runs | Geo Mean | Mean | Std Dev | Max | |--------------|--------|----------|---------|---------|-------| | Complex List | 40 | 339.38ms | 342.3ms | 43.44ms | 438ms | '--------------------------------------------------------------'
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@Intercourse said:
Clearly anything that is not an i7, that is less than 3 years old should just be completely trashed. It is obviously utterly useless.
I got 218ms with a core i5-3570k that for some reason I keep forgetting to turn the overclock back on.
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the 4 year old desktop gaming rig i'm replacing next month has decided that it's only going to do 20FPS for MC1.8, but it was doing well over 120FPS happily for the MC1.7 series.
Did you turn on VBOs? BTW, Optifine preview is now out for 1.8.
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i5-3570k
That was launched in Q2-2012, so Jeff may allow you to keep it a little bit longer. You are pushing it though...
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The ones that have the old computers are either:
- Management
- Administration(people who just do work like accounting, paperwork, legal,etc)
- Electrical engineers (no electrical schematic software requires a GPU, because its all 2D, if it does you are doing it wrong).
- Systems/Process engineers
- Production workers
Ones that have new/modified under the table computers:
- Software engineers
- Mechanical engineers for solidworks (some actually have new Pentium 4s in their machines but with expensive workstation graphics cards doing the bulk of the work). No issues with their machines generally performance wise.
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@Intercourse said:
That was launched in Q2-2012, so Jeff may allow you to keep it a little bit longer. You are pushing it though...
It's not an i7, but it replaced a 2007-era C2D, so it's a massive improvement for me. Plus look at that test time.
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Or sometimes tech people whose computers just refuse to die, and the company doesn't replace them until then, like me. Of the 8 people in my office, everyone else has an i3 or an i5 except for my stupid Pentium e5700 that keeps on keepin' on, and a coworker with a similar-era laptop that also stubbornly refuses to die.
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I feel like there is a disconnect here... I was being facetious. I just upgraded from a Phenom II X4, that I still consider to be a completely viable machine for almost all use cases.
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@Intercourse said:
I feel like there is a disconnect here... I was being facetious.
I know. So was I. You see a lot of reviews of new hardware that talk about how it's not much of an improvement from previous-generation stuff. Well duh, that's frequently the case. But less talked about is "how much of an upgrade is it from 4-5 generations ago"?
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low end CPU from 2010
Should be put out to pasture, probably.
Oh, go do yourself. Not everybody has money to jump on every new piece of hardware they see. And even those who do usually have them exactly because they don't go and blow $2000 at iStore every month.
And I'm definitely not fucking buying a new PC for Discourse.
Your "engineering company" has 90% desktops with a CPU from a decade ago?
What.. kind.. of engineering do you do there?
Would you give your VB6 and Delphi developers shiny new Alienware laptops just because? That's... an exquisite business model, I must say.
My first laptop at the company, just 6 months ago, used a Pentium M. VS2010 worked, old SSMS worked, and I was assigned a somewhat legacy project at the time, so why would I need anything better to work?
Filed under: framework of the day, processor of the day
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You know what's worse than a computer that won't die.
Fucking monitors.
We refuse to buy new ones, so some people are forced to use mismatched pairs. These two fucking ASUS monitors make me rage, because even though they have LCD backlights they have this amazingly bad scanline effect playing over them that'll make your eyes bleed. So my coworkers just bitched when they use dit. I had to make them "disappear".
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my stupid Pentium e5700 that keeps on keepin' on, and a coworker with a similar-era laptop that also stubbornly refuses to die.
It would be a shame if...something happened to those machines. Like a handful of metal shavings ended up in the power supply, or it accidentally got hooked up to 220V. Something like that...
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i had it turned on for 1.7. that settings never unselected itself before,
i'll check tonight.
and MC isn't the only reason i'm replacing it. it's 4 years old and just isn't sexy enough anymore. :-D
of course i'm still doing my devwork on an rpi, so my sense of aesthetics is unusual to say the least.
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@Intercourse said:
It would be a shame if...something happened to those machines. Like a handful of metal shavings ended up in the power supply, or it accidentally got hooked up to 220V. Something like that...
I agree, but those aren't plausible, unfortunately. I am currently considering "aged TIM on the CPU."
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I keep seeing people mentioning stuff about old TIM, am I missing something?
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i had it turned on for 1.7. that settings never unselected itself before,
VBOs are new to 1.8, so I bet you didn't have them on before. :)
That's Vertex Buffer Objects, btw. Also, on 1.8, you should turn the frame rate limiter to "unlimited" because apparently it has an impact if you don't.
1.8 seems generally--if you're not one of the unlucky ones--to have vastly higher frame rates. I think that with my Geforce 650 ti boost I was getting maybe 100-120 or so fps in 1.7; with 1.8 I can see double that.
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@Intercourse said:
I keep seeing people mentioning stuff about old TIM, am I missing something?
sploogethermal paste
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That is just idiotic. Monitors are so cheap these days that the good companies we work with allow employees to pick their own monitors and input devices when they start. Even if someone picks something on the expensive side, it is small money to pay to have happy employees.
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@Intercourse said:
I keep seeing people mentioning stuff about old TIM, am I missing something?
Sometimes it dries out, especially if the heatsink wasn't firmly seated. When it does it looks like pictures of dry lake beds, all cracked and stuff. That can't be good for its thermal conductivity.
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I got that, but it seems like people are implying the old stuff is toxic?
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oh. right.
sorry. i play MC to build crazy things with virtual legos, not muck about in the settings.
also i play exclusively multiplayer, if that has any effect...
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Sometimes it dries out, especially if the heatsink wasn't firmly seated. When it does it looks like pictures of dry lake beds, all cracked and stuff. That can't be good for its thermal conductivity.
Wipe off 90% of the TIM, reseat the heatsink and there you go. Random failures when you start to tax the machine.
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impressive. the 4 year old desktop gaming rig i'm replacing next month has decided that it's only going to do 20FPS for MC1.8, but it was doing well over 120FPS happily for the MC1.7 series.
I haven't tried it with modern Minecraft TBH, but it got some use in the early post-Beta days by friends who wanted to play. It had some kind of workstation-level GPU in it, which while ancient, was still far better than what all the modern budget laptops had.
@Intercourse said:
I keep seeing people mentioning stuff about old TIM, am I missing something?
Some people, especially overclockers, obsess over TIM. I've actually had workstations that had zero TIM because laziness. Sure they ran a bit hot at times, but never reached the max safe CPU temperature.
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@Intercourse said:
That is just idiotic. Monitors are so cheap these days that [...]
I just helped my mother-in-law shop for a new monitor this weekend. She spent $102 and change, tax included, on a 19.5" 1600x900 Acer. (Of course for $50 more you can get something like the kickass 23" ASUS IPS with speakers I have. VP238W-H or something, I think. It's awesome for the size, the speakers are cromulent, and it's about 1/4 the thickness of your average Dell.)
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I just wanted to make the [spoiler]
pun[/spoiler] joke@discoursebot, where's my formatting?
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@chubertdev - Days Since Last Discourse Bug: 0
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@Intercourse said:
I got that, but it seems like people are implying the old stuff is toxic?
I bet it's all toxic, to a degree. I sure wouldn't want to ingest it. I haven't heard anything about older stuff being especially bad for you WRT modern stuff, so I dunno.
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Fair enough, it is never a bad time for a jizz joke.
Edit: On second thought, you probably should not make one at hotspots for femi-nazis. I would also suggest not going to such places at all if you can keep from it.
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i play MC to build crazy things with virtual legos, not muck about in the settings.
Yes, but who wants to play legos at 20fps? It's worth tweaking for performance.
For MP, obviously latency matters a lot, but I wouldn't want to couple that with low frame rates--that's just the opposite of gilding the lily.
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@Intercourse said:
Wipe off 90% of the TIM, reseat the heatsink and there you go. Random failures when you start to tax the machine.
I can neither confirm nor deny doing or planning such a thing. :)
Weird-ish story: when the computer arrived it had a loud, somewhat wobbly-sounding fan. We called Dell, and instead of replacing the fan, they cross-shipped an entire new PC.
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VP238W-H
searched for that on my favorite site and found this pretty thing......
http://smile.amazon.com/Asus-MX239H-23-Inch-LED-backlit-Frameless/dp/B00B1IAL7W/ref=sr_1_4
-drool-
now if only they had VESA mount points at the back....
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It had some kind of workstation-level GPU in it, which while ancient, was still far better than what all the modern budget laptops had.
A GeForce 9500 will give you a better frame rate than Intel's HD 4400, or whatever's in my i5-3570k, so prett much, yeah. (AMD's integrated graphics, as should surprise nobody, aren't that good, but run rings around the Intel graphics.
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searched for that on my favorite site and found this pretty thing......
As it turns out, I have a VX, not VP. It looks like it's more or less the same thing, except not frameless, and I don't know what "AH IPS" is.
No VESA mount I guess is the price you pay for it being such a sexy beast.
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yeah..... still i may have to grab when i build my new beast....
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I have a pretty nice 24" BENQ monitor at home that was on sale for cheap at the local electronics store.
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I know its infuriating. I even pointed out the package deals that sometimes exist for ordering multiple monitors from some vendors. I got lucky when I ninjaed 3x DELL IPS monitors we got when we bought another company for assets.
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i have 2 good enough ones right now. new monitors will probably be a birthday present (june)
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At work, though ...
The main screen (23" or so, made by Fujitsu) is pretty alright. Only 1680x1050 resolution, though.
The second screen, however ...
A 1280x1024 4:3 resistive touchscreen with the same height as the main screen but awful awful color quality.
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Back on topic, since zero meaningful moderation occurs on this site:
fwiw Safari 7.1 on my macbook seems to be twice as fast on the Complex List too. So there is something definitely going south here.
If you look at the cpu profile it will be all full of yellow exclamation marks "optimized too many times", which is a bad sign.
I took a quick look a deopts at it seems that optimizations really never stabilize - I might be wrong but it seems like we are hitting the same issue I already reported for angular: first several times function deopts due to polymorphism as we inline more and more alternatives, then it stabilizes - but at this point GC comes, collects maps and optimized code and type feedback are thrown away due to "weak-code" dependency and the loop starts from scratch.
These functions that don't stabilize are relatively big (400 smth blocks) so not being able to stabilize optimizations for it is a bad sign and an obvious potential performance drain.
That's from a Google Chrome team member. So definitely bugs in Chrome/Android. I'm just frustrated it took them a year to do jack-all about it.
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Back on topic, since zero meaningful moderation occurs on this site:
That is the way that we like it. Go back to meta.d if it bothers you.
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I agree, but those aren't plausible, unfortunately. I am currently considering "aged TIM on the CPU."
Dust obstructing airflow could help there, too.
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It is part of your toxic culture here, yes. But it should change.
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It is our culture. Just because something deviates from your concept of the ideal, you think that it should change?
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You came here because you wanted to get free data from us and then you complain about our culture and toxicity - which you already knew about for quite a while - in the same thread?
I'm not sure how exactly I should feel about that. Probably appalled.
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You put it more nicely than I am able to.