Oracle FTW



  • OK. I need to say this, once, because I'm gonna kill myself if I do not.

    First of all, context : Classroom --> (Oracle class on Windows).

    WTF IS THIS SHI* ? How can a fucking moron have developed something that creapy, non-working, anti-user friendly, and which fails every time you try to configure it ?

    We are in 2014, and their setup tool, config "assistant" (not sure it helps configure anything) just look.. IDK, maybe 1990 ?

    I does not like having space in its path, does not like to have a "_" in the computer name, does not like everything...

    Moreover, configuring network and memory for it is just a pain in the ass.

    I'm over, I will never install and recommend this piece of sh** to anyone.



  • I had to have Oracle 10g installed for a class once, and at the time our University-assigned laptops were single-core 1.6 GHz Celerons with 512 MB RAM. An idle instance of Oracle with no additional databases configured used around 80% CPU and 95% RAM. Once it was installed it was literally unusable. No that was not an abuse of the word literally.

    I also had SQL Server Express 2008 installed for other reasons, and it idled at 0% CPU and 12 MB RAM.



  • Exactly. Same at work for SQL Server, no resource when idle.

    TROLL : Maybe that's because it is java based. You know.. :D



  • SQL Server is coded in VB .NET with a Node.js back end.



  • People complain about Microsoft being "Evil".

    Oracle is EVIL ... It is $50000 per CPU, then add a Windows License and the cost of a blade server ... you are talking about a lot of cash for a production server.

    Recently Oracle are suing a 3rd party for fixing the shellshock bug on EOL versions of Solaris.

    The reason why Oracle is used in Universities to teach RDMS is because they are effectively the standard for quite some time in the last century.



  • @scboffspring said:

    First of all, context : Classroom --> (Oracle class on Windows).

    TRWTF is teaching Oracle DB on school/college. Not sure if it's some sort of certification class, but if not, then why?

    @lucas said:

    The reason why Oracle is used in Universities to teach RDMS is because they are effectively the standard for quite some time in the last century.

    And exactly because of this, TRWTF is greater:

    $ docker run --name my-super-cool-postgres -d postgres
    

    There, you have a 100% enterprise ready RDBMS which is not the clusterfuck Oracle is.

    Now just wait for blakeyrat (no incantation) to come and rant about bla bla bla Postgres.





  • The thing is that in my university the teacher/lecturer was an expert in using Oracle. The university probably gets a pretty good deal on Oracle licenses (same happened with MSDNAA).

    TBH it doesn't really matter what you learn with at this level, as long as you learn the basics and tbh Oracle shit tools and kicking you in the dick repeatadly while using the SQL+ interface is a good thing for a beginner in some ways IMHO .... consider it a warm welcome to the industry ... IT ONLY GETS WORSE ...



  • @lucas said:

    TBH it doesn't really matter what you learn with at this level, as long as you learn the basics and tbh Oracle shit tools and kicking you in the dick repeatadly in SQL+ interface is a good thing for a beginner in some ways IMHO.

    Sorry, but I don't think so. If you have to spend 5 hours installing Oracle (been there, done that, and I might be going short on that estimate) your capabilities of learning fuck about tables and SQL probably have gone down the drain already.

    Something like SQLite is 100x more appropriate to learn the basics without this crapfest.


    Edit 1: And before anyone comes here to tell me I'm a loser who have never used Oracle, I was installing Oracle clusterfucks 10 years ago and until 2012 I was trapped in 11g hell. Although I must confess that SQLDeveloper has been getting better over the years and JDBC support is top-notch.



  • That image should be updated for Oracle 12c.

    Speaking of dumb Oracle things, the letters after the version number are idiotic.

    7-9 were i for Internet, 10-11 were g for Grid, and 12 is c for Cloud.

    In other words, buzzword bingo is part of the product name.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    Something like SQLite is 100x more appropriate to learn the basics without this crapfest.

    More like 100000x more appropriate. In fact, teaching SQLite (vs. Oracle, SQL Server, or even Postgres) is probably the biggest favor you could do someone in this class, because then they have a DBMS they can use right then and there, in addition to being able to practice applying the concepts they're learning in class.



  • The thing is there is something to be learnt from spending fooking ages installing something and then having to spend an age getting the basics working.

    Yeah you can do the same in SQLite, but sometimes I think it is better to learn with crap tools because it makes you actually understand it that much better.

    Tbh most of the newer languages and tools are nicely in the middle ... low level enough for a beginner to pickup but advanced enough that you can build almost anything.



  • The pain of installing Oracle weeds out everyone that isn't as crotchety as a 90 year old Republican, which is a base requirement to be a DBA.



  • Oracle's mantra is, "If you use the GUI, we get more support contract monies because it is busted to 11 kinds of crap and you have to call us. Also, an intern wrote it. Interns write everything."

    The OUI is running on (probably, almost certainly) Java 1.4 and AWT. That's why it looks like it is straight out of 1997. Because it is. For reals.

    If the only things you had to do was not use a _ in the machine name and no spaces in paths, congratulations. That's probably the easiest Oracle install you will ever encounter.

    Are you prepared to format the machine in the event you want to re-purpose it/reinstall Oracle?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @chubertdev said:

    The pain of installing Oracle weeds out everyone that isn't as crotchety as a 90 year old Republican, which is a base requirement to be a DBA.

    As an Oracle-certified DBA (currently working with MS SQL, thank $deity), I can confirm this.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    Now just wait for blakeyrat (no incantation) to come and rant about bla bla bla Postgres.

    From my limited experience of postgres (i.e. since I started poking around DC's databases) it doesn't seem to be that bad:

    [postgres@lenovo ~]$ ps auxf | grep post
    postgres  3051  0.0  0.0  68596  2416 ?        S    Oct15   0:05 /usr/bin/postmaster -D /var/lib/pgsql/data
    postgres  3933  0.0  0.3  68796 26204 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:27  \_ postgres: writer process
    postgres  3934  0.0  0.0  68596   880 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:20  \_ postgres: wal writer process
    postgres  3935  0.0  0.0  69784  1872 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:19  \_ postgres: autovacuum launcher process
    postgres  3936  0.0  0.0  40352   928 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:26  \_ postgres: stats collector proces
    [...]
    [postgres@lenovo ~]$ 
    

    Basically it's been running on that box for 2 days and idling has used not a lot. The other instance I have lying around:

    postgres 18840  0.0  0.1  43980  4224 pts/3    S    Oct15   0:02 /usr/bin/postgres -D /var/lib/pgsql/data
    postgres 18847  0.0  0.0  43980  1244 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:19  \_ postgres: writer process
    postgres 18848  0.0  0.0  43980  1012 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:15  \_ postgres: wal writer process
    postgres 18849  0.0  0.0  44840  2340 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:08  \_ postgres: autovacuum launcher process
    postgres 18850  0.0  0.0  12492  1400 ?        Ss   Oct15   0:11  \_ postgres: stats collector process
    

    For comparison, on the second box, an idle mysql

    root      3291  0.0  0.0   5040  1504 ?        S    Oct15   0:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --mysqld=mysqld --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
    mysql     3431  0.0  0.8 126840 29436 ?        Sl   Oct15   0:46  \_ /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/ --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --log-error=/var/lib/mysql/sofa.example.com.err --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid --socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock --port=3306
    

    And on a 3rd box that's got an active mysql:

    mysql     2492  3.6  0.2 837904 34528 ?        Sl   Oct09 394:10  \_ /usr/libexec/mysqld --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --log-error=/var/log/mysqld.log --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid --socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock
    

    I have yet to get senile enough to voluntarily install Oracle on anything I have admin over...



  • we currently use oracle where I work. It's the worst. I have set up an EF model based on it which I'm hoping once that gets adopted on all our systems will allow us to yank oracle out without upsetting the crockery on top of the EF model.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @PJH said:

    mysql 2492 3.6 0.2 837904 34528 ? Sl Oct09 394:10 _ /usr/libexec/mysqld --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --log-error=/var/log/mysqld.log --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid --socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock

    Apropos of nothing, I had an IT guy tell me yesterday that a lot of command-line parameters is a sign of a 1990s-mentality non-enterprisey program. "Oh my god, it uses mapped drives." "You can use UNC shares instead." "That's not an improvement!"



  • @powerlord said:

    Speaking of dumb Oracle things, the letters after the version number are idiotic.

    From my experience, trying to explain what versions we're at on things (especially Oracle Applications R12 vs 11i) usually de-evolves into a "Who's on First" joke.



  • I will definitely print this and take it to class. Best sticker ever !


  • SockDev

    I'm assuming in this context, the title means 'For The Wickedness'



  • @mott555 said:

    I had to have Oracle 10g installed for a class once, and at the time our University-assigned laptops were single-core 1.6 GHz Celerons with 512 MB RAM.

    I remember installing an 8i(?) version on an old P2(?) with 64MB RAM. It actually worked decently well.



  • @Eldelshell said:

    And exactly because of this, TRWTF is greater:

    $ docker run --name my-super-cool-postgres -d postgres

    There, you have a 100% enterprise ready RDBMS

    Paging @morbiuswilters. I miss his postgres rants.



  • @boomzilla said:

    Paging @morbiuswilters.

    I wonder what happened to Morbs. As I recall, there was no indication that he was rage-quitting. He just stopped showing up here.



  • @HardwareGeek said:

    I wonder what happened to Morbs. As I recall, there was no indication that he was rage-quitting. He just stopped showing up here.

    He does that quite often.


  • SockDev

    @HardwareGeek said:

    I wonder what happened to Morbs. As I recall, there was no indication that he was rage-quitting. He just stopped showing up here.

    He just comes and goes, even back on CS. Usually when he's busy on a job, I recall... and I know he was anti-Discourse which wouldn't have helped either.



  • I've only been around long enough to observe one previous disappearance, and I don't think it lasted as long as this one. I do hope he comes back.

    @Arantor said:

    and I know he was anti-Discourse, which wouldn't have helped either.
    Aren't we all?


  • SockDev

    The comma wasn't strictly necessary in British English :stuck_out_tongue:

    And yes, yes we are.


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