WTF happened to Windows 95?
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Right; but since nobody uses Linux for anything other than web servers, that's the valid comparison here.
Really? You fucking idiot, Linux runs: firewalls, NAS, SAN, VM hosts, content filters, email servers, DNS, routers, switches, you fucking name it. Networks run on Linux. If they ran on Windows, the entire internet would be down for 15-20 minutes every Tuesday while everything rebooted.
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Look, open source software is poor quality. So far that's pretty much the only meaningful thing I've gotten out of your screed.
Wow... just wow... I'm not even going to... wow.
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@Intercourse said:
Do I have to get out the crayons and construction paper and draw you a little diagram?
Hell yeah, I wanna see that.
@Intercourse said:
So what if services had to be restarted? There is still effectively no downtime. I can type "sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart" and Apache will restart before anyone perceives any downtime.
Which is it? Is there no downtime or downtime?
@Intercourse said:
How about this then, you pedantic asshole, "I have had machines, with Linux installed on them, that did not see a POST screen for years"? Does that satisfy you?
No because I don't really give a shit about that.
@Intercourse said:
I am not, which is why I said you will likely be rebooting once a week. Do you read? Or are you legally blind and just let some screen reader try to parse Dicksores for you? "likely be rebooting once a week", I vaguely recall a Tuesday or two where a reboot was not required. But you will likely be rebooting once a week.
So, you don't know what Patch Tuesday is. Gotcha.
Next time just say: "I don't know". And maybe go look it up.
@Intercourse said:
You, once again, are fucking retarded. I don't...I don't even know where to begin. There is nothing unreliable about a *nix environment. Quite to the contrary. If you write shitty code and run it on a reliable OS, then your service will be unreliable. But that goes for MS also.
You utterly missed my point.
@Intercourse said:
We have literally never encountered this scenario. Not once.
I don't know who "we" is. But ok? Good for you?
@Intercourse said:
Fuck all, why do I even respond to tripe like this from a bellend like you?
You're secretly hoping I'm going to explain what Patch Tuesday is.
@Intercourse said:
No. Just no. It is not the best choice for all scenarios, but I find it hard to believe that anything could have a shorter development time that Ruby on Rails.
Ruby on Rails doesn't even have a debugger. If something goes wrong, you're just fucked.
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Those follow the money. The money's in iOS. Macs are required for iOS development.
Yes, you fucking shitbird, ALL conferences are for iOS development. All of them. Every fucking developer conference on the planet is for iOS. I am so sorry to have doubted you.
Right; so in one small segment of the market, there's your Macs. Whee.
Small segment? Really? So Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc are all just a small segment of the overall tech market? All of the supporting technologies are just a small segment of the market? It is all desktop still? 90% client/server in the traditional sense? @cartman82 was right to call you "willfully ignorant". It is an apt descriptor.
If the open source project was "ported" to Windows, but doesn't use Windows conventions, then its developers are shitty and awful and etc.
Where are the crayons and construction paper?
Look, open source software is poor quality. So far that's pretty much the only meaningful thing I've gotten out of your screed. And I already knew that.
You are mentally ill. That is the only possible explanation.
That doesn't matter. That's still WHY they own Macs.
I know LOTS of developers with Macs who have not ever written a single iOS app. You are mentally ill.
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@Intercourse said:
You are mentally ill.
Undoubtedly true, but out of curiosity what diagnosis would you think most fitting?
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I give it about half an hour before @Intercourse has a heart attack. This is brilliant entertainment
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He better fucking not have his heart attack before I get my crayon drawing!
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I give it about half an hour before @Intercourse has a heart attack. This is brilliant entertainment
I'm laughing my head off. Half tempted to poke someone with a stick but scared to even peek my head above the wall, in case it gets blown off :)
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Right; so in one small segment of the market, there's your Macs. Whee.
Sorry, I wouldn't call web a "small segment of the market".
Here's a quick test: what technology you think has the best chance of being behind the next Facebook or Twitter? Because let me tell you, it certainly won't be a .NET desktop application.
...
Ok, let's put aside whether you or I can agree whether CLI is a good idea.
The bottom line is, all the cool new stuff is being developed by people who use *nix and think that it is. Windows can adapt or be brushed aside into a ghetto where old people make intranet webforms apps.
I hope that doesn't happen, but right now, I don't see a way that it won't.
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Which is it? Is there no downtime or downtime?
If I migrate a VM from one host to another, there is technically downtime. That downtime is in fractions of a second, no services are interrupted, but I suppose there is 30-40ms of downtime. If I restart Apache, or some other service, they come back up before anyone ever notices, there is downtime but again it is not noticeable. Way less than a second.
If I follow Windows update and have to reboot my server almost every single week, there will be several minutes worth of downtime, every single week. I have not timed a server reboot lately, but servers take a while to POST, etc. That is downtime. That is a service interruption if you are running a single server deployment.
No because I don't really give a shit about that.
Of course not, because it does not further your point, but it is relevant to the conversation and it does fucking matter.
So, you don't know what Patch Tuesday is. Gotcha.
Next time just say: "I don't know". And maybe go look it up.
If you were here, I would hit you with a fucking baseball bat. For your own good.
You utterly missed my point.
You didn't have a fucking point!!
I don't know who "we" is. But ok? Good for you?
The people I work with, the services I work with, the clients I work for.
Ruby on Rails doesn't even have a debugger. If something goes wrong, you're just fucked.
Yeah, if something goes wrong with code outside of a MS environment you just throw up your hands, scrap the whole project and start over. No debugger, so it is literally impossible to find out what is wrong.
Ruby on Rails does have a debugger by the way, so thankfully we do not have to scrap everything because it is literally impossible to work without one. It is absolutely impossible to step through code, or to even have any idea where the problem might lie. It is not like the interpreter will throw an exception telling you where the problem is.
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The bottom line is, all the cool new stuff is being developed by people who use *nix and think that it is.
Ok I think you're missing words here. Because when you say "cool new stuff" I think of like new video game shader or texture techniques, or new Photoshop smart fills or etc. Most of those things come out on Windows first.
You apparently are thinking of something VERY different, and I don't know what it is. What do you consider a "cool new tech"?
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@blakeyrat is a MS fanboy and salesman. I've never would have guessed that.
If you read more than 3 of his rants, that observation is inescapable.
I just thought he liked to rant about everything and everyone,
He does, but especially bashing FOSS and defending MS (and lamenting the loss of MacOS Classic).
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@Intercourse said:
If I follow Windows update and have to reboot my server almost every single week,
If you followed Windows Update, you wouldn't have to reboot your server almost every single week. (Psst: you're looking really dumb now. Look up Patch Tuesday. It's just a quick Google away.)
@Intercourse said:
You didn't have a fucking point!!
My point is that labor costs 10x software licensing. You can't say Linux is cheaper in a vacuum without considering the additional labor costs in finding someone willing and able to work in Linux.
This is obvious to everybody except, for some reason, Linux users-- who seem to all assume labor is free.
@Intercourse said:
The people I work with, the services I work with, the clients I work for.
For all I know that's one database with 10MB of data in it.
@Intercourse said:
Yeah, if something goes wrong with code outside of a MS environment you just throw up your hands, scrap the whole project and start over. No debugger, so it is literally impossible to find out what is wrong.
Guess so.
@Intercourse said:
It is not like the interpreter will throw an exception telling you where the problem is.
Of course it will, but by that time you're site's already broken for someone.
And it won't tell you where the problem is, it will only tell you where the problem became too great to ignore. Which is different.
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Ok I think you're missing words here. Because when you say "cool new stuff" I think of like new video game shader or texture techniques, or new Photoshop smart fills or etc. Most of those things come out on Windows first.
But that is because that is what interests you. I could care fuckall about videogames. I quit playing them years ago because I lost interest. I also have hobbies that likely do not interest you, but I do not think that they are all that there is. I am not a self-centered, egocentric fucking asshole though.
(OK, I am, but not in this respect)
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Ok I think you're missing words here. Because when you say "cool new stuff" I think of like new video game shader or texture techniques, or new Photoshop smart fills or etc. Most of those things come out on Windows first.
You apparently are thinking of something VERY different, and I don't know what it is. What do you consider a "cool new tech"?
Talking about dev tooling. Not end-user apps.
It goes: new tooling -> startups grab them and make stuff -> 1 in 10000 becomes the new Twitter and changes the world.
Eventually, they filter down to large companies, who use them to shape their products.What do I care about new shader or photoshop filter? How will that in any way influence my job?
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Talking about dev tooling.
There's nothing new and/or cool in dev tooling. Especially from the *nix camp, which is still using environments from the 1970s.
But see how much more easily the conversation goes when you explain what the holy fuck you're fucking talking about instead of making obviously ridiculous and untrue assertions, then acting like I'm the weirdo for pointing out that they're obviously ridiculous and untrue?
What do I care about new shader or photoshop filter?
You used the word "cool". There are no "cool" development tools. There are good ones, and bad ones, but they are all lame.
How will that in any way influence my job?
I don't know what your job is.
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the Windows console insists that you want to select rectangles, which you don't want 90+% of the time!
Does anyone ever want that? I think I've probably used (intentionally) a rectangular selection like 3 times in the last 30 years.
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There's nothing new and/or cool in dev tooling. Especially from the *nix camp, which is still using environments from the 1970s.
Oh, so we are all still using C and talking with kernel directly to build distributed SOA apps. Good to know.
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@Intercourse said:
If I follow Windows update and have to reboot my server almost every single week, there will be several minutes worth of downtime, every single week.
Patch Tuesday is a monthly thing, but when was the last time where any MS updates lasted only several minutes?
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Hey you gave me like 47 likes in the last 15 minutes, that means you agree with me entirely. Let's form a "no intercourse" club.
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If you followed Windows Update, you wouldn't have to reboot your server almost every single week. (Psst: you're looking really dumb now. Look up Patch Tuesday. It's just a quick Google away.)
I was being a fucking asshole, you fucking asshole. I install updates roughly once a month.
My point is that labor costs 10x software licensing. You can't say Linux is cheaper in a vacuum without considering the additional labor costs in finding someone willing and able to work in Linux.
You think that is...difficult? Really? Bad example here, but the market around here is flush with PHP developers. Python/Django and RoR is not too far behind. It is not at all difficult to find competent people to work in such languages and do good work. UI/UX and graphic design are the hard people to find.
For all I know that's one database with 10MB of data in it.
It is actually in kb. Just a few names and addresses.
Of course it will, but by that time you're site's already broken for someone.
Yes, because we all just deploy to production without testing. Hell, I edit the files on the server. I do not even have a local repository. I do it all by just opening the files through an FTP connection or editing them with Nano on the machine through SSH. Testing is for pussies.
There is also no way to roll back changes. When we make a mistake we just scrap the whole business and start a new one.
And it won't tell you where the problem is, it will only tell you where the problem became too great to ignore. Which is different.
You're just fucking retarded.
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Patch Tuesday is a monthly thing,
Aw, I was hoping he'd put his foot right up in his mouth another 13-14 times.
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@Intercourse said:
You're just fucking retarded.
That's... that's the diagnosis? Somehow I was hoping for something more creative.
Like the thing that guy in A Beautiful Mind had where he made-up a roommate.
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Aw, I was hoping he'd put his foot right up in his mouth another 13-14 times.
Sometimes it feels like the update takes a whole week.
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Hey you gave me like 47 likes in the last 15 minutes, that means you agree with me entirely. Let's form a "no intercourse" club.
My likes are ALWAYS one of:
- Appreciate the effort
- Entertained! I want more of this
- I agree but have nothing further to say to fill a post
Hint: yours are not #3 this time.
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Patch Tuesday is a monthly thing, but when was the last time where any MS updates lasted only several minutes?
I was referring to the reboot.
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Aw, I was hoping he'd put his foot right up in his mouth another 13-14 times.
I would prefer to put said foot somewhere else, but I am not traveling to WA for the privilege.
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You know what really sets apart an expert debater is when they just give up and fill every post with threats of violence.
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I learned it by watching you.
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I'll be calling this Windows X, just like OSX.
Who knows, maybe they'll start copying the Apple model and keep it on version 10 for a while:
Windows X
Windows X.1 (shattered glass)
Windows X.2 (bulletproof glass)
Windows X.3 (windowpane)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXb7do9C-w
Goddamned that is an epic mustache.
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@Intercourse said:
I was referring to the reboot.
Every time I update and reboot, I have to wait forever first for it to actually shut down while it does whatever the fuck it does, then after it starts back up I get to wait for it to do more of the same.
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Given how they've been trying to copy Apple with the store and attempts at vertical integration, why the balls wouldn't they also attempt to copy the name too?
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Every time I update and reboot, I have to wait forever first for it to actually shut down while it does whatever the fuck it does, then after it starts back up I get to wait for it to do more of the same.
This is true. I never really pay attention, as it has to be done outside of office hours. Do what I need to do, reboot, go to bed and hope my phone does not blow up in the morning.
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@Intercourse said:
This is true. I never really pay attention, as it has to be done outside of office hours. Do what I need to do, reboot, go to bed and hope my phone does not blow up in the morning.
Most of my updates are done on a third party owned laptop which normally is off (or sleeping). So I fire it up when I need it or when I need to do updates (and report which updates are installed for security purposes). So I can choose to do this when I don't need to use the machine. But it still amazes me at how slow it is.
My wife's (Win7) machine took a couple of hours to digest September's bolus.
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Updates always happen to me when I need to shut down and swap out one of our boards with something different for testing or support purposes. That 1-minute shut down, replace hardware, reboot cycle usually turns into a 30+ minute ordeal thanks to Windows Updates.
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It looks more like blakey hates everything that vaguely reminds him of UNIX, which leads him to appear fanboyish for the alternatives.
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@Intercourse said:
I use the right tool for the job. You have one tool and use it for everything. If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems like nails. You only own a hammer, which works out great when you have nails, but sometimes you are pounding screws in instead of reaching for a fucking screwdriver. Also, you claim that a hammer is the only thing anyone would ever need and make fun of those with screwdrivers and wrenches, etc.
I don't know if you were around for the blakeyrants about Ruby and git, but that's a pretty good summary of his approach.
@Intercourse said:
Fuck all, why do I even respond to tripe like this from a bellend like you?
I have a couple of options you may not have considered:
- Don't.
- Troll mercilessly. He'll eventually get so pissed off he ignores the rest of your posts.
a ghetto where old people make intranet webforms apps.
I resemble that remark!
So labor for Linux environments is free?
Did they ever give you that pedant badge?
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He'll eventually get so pissed off he ignores the rest of your posts.
NB: This has never actually worked long term.
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It looks more like blakey hates everything that vaguely reminds him of UNIX, which leads him to appear fanboyish for the alternatives.
I don't see him as a fanboy, I do see him as an apologist though. Reality distortion fields are not just for Mac users.
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Troll mercilessly. He'll eventually get so pissed off he ignores the rest of your posts.
I am trying. I shall up my game though.
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@Intercourse said:
You will also have other unscheduled reboots along the way. Server 2012R2 also has a nasty habit of shitting itself when it gets an unscheduled hard reboot. If I need reliability and uptime, I will stick with *nix.
Meanwhile, in reality, the only servers getting unscheduled reboots have fucking terrible, broken assed software running on it. The only servers getting hard reboots are physically broken.The monthly reboots, though. Those have an upside. You know 100 percent that the app will gracefully handle a node loss.
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@Intercourse said:
>blakeyrat:
Right; but since nobody uses Linux for anything other than web servers, that's the valid comparison here.Really? You fucking idiot, Linux runs: firewalls, NAS, SAN, VM hosts, content filters, email servers, DNS, routers, switches, you fucking name it.
Not to mention that every chip — every CPU, every RAM chip, every northbridge and southbridge, every LCD driver, every touch-screen controller — in every computer and every phone you've ever used has been designed, verified, laid-out and tested on software that runs on *nix. Well, probably — at least some of that software does have Windows versions, but nobody uses them.
Warning: Statements above may contain hyperbole for rhetorical effect. Use with caution. Do not eat. Keep out of reach of small children. Dispose of in accordance with local regulations.
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Did they ever give you that pedant badge?
They don't just give it to you.
You have to earn it.
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You have to want it. Desire it. Need it. And then still be denied by the dickweeds around here who have higher standards.
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Meanwhile, in reality, the only servers getting unscheduled reboots have fucking terrible, broken assed software running on it. The only servers getting hard reboots are physically broken.
In this case it was our own internal server and a power glitch, combined with a faulty UPS that did not handle it as it should have. The UPS has been replaced, and it has not been an issue since, but that is what caused it. It was not software related
The monthly reboots, though. Those have an upside. You know 100 percent that the app will gracefully handle a node loss.
If you are talking enterprise level, then you of course have a point. HA is a prerequisite. But what about those businesses that having multiple levels of redundancy on expensive hardware and software is not economically feasible? Or startups with a web-based business who are trying to bootstrap to profitability? Hell, even SO started as a single server deployment. Reboots can be a big deal.
Most people who start up a new service (in the cloud, but let us assume they are on their own hardware) as a single server deployment. Any reboot is downtime for them. Very few web-based businesses are started with a full stack of load balancers, web/app servers, db servers, backup servers, DNS servers, mail servers, failover servers, etc.
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You have to want it. Desire it. Need it. And then still be denied by the dickweeds around here who have higher standards.
Or the asshats who refuse to flag your post because they are opposed the gamifaction. They think it is below them, or something like that.
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Or the asshats who refuse to flag your post because they are opposed the gamifaction. They think it is below them, or something like that.
Some of us are just lazy fucks.
