Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition
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@dcon I think it will be different. You'll still be spending 10k/year on a car, it'll just be the same car the entire time, and if you stop paying it'll die. On the plus side, they'll make them much more durable to save money.
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@Gustav said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@dcon I think it will be different. You'll still be spending 10k/year on a car, it'll just be the same car the entire time, and if you stop paying it'll die. On the plus side, they'll make them much more durable to save money.
They already do that. It's called a car loan. The car knows when it's paid off and dies the next day. Or the day after the warranty expires, whichever comes last.
Beside, the car industry was one of the first to introduce subscriptions. Also known as leasing.
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@dcon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Beside, the car industry was one of the first to introduce subscriptions. Also known as leasing.
There is data supporting leasing as far back as 2000 b.c. in ancient Sumer. You will find laws concerning leasing in both greek and roman law. You will find provisions in the middle ages on the leasing of property and other goods.
Car companies have done plenty, but creation of the lease isn't one of them.
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@dcon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Beside, the car industry was one of the first to introduce subscriptions. Also known as leasing.
Leasing isn't a subscription, it's an accounting trick.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luFgV4nuSxc
In case of failed embed:
Bizarre Accident
Where I saw this posted, the only commentary was “???”
Can’t quarrel with that.
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@Dragoon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@dcon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Beside, the car industry was one of the first to introduce subscriptions. Also known as leasing.
There is data supporting leasing as far back as 2000 b.c. in ancient Sumer. You will find laws concerning leasing in both greek and roman law. You will find provisions in the middle ages on the leasing of property and other goods.
Car companies have done plenty, but creation of the lease isn't one of them.
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@kazitor said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Where I saw this posted, the only commentary was “???”
Some of those YT comments are really funny.
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@dcon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@kazitor said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Where I saw this posted, the only commentary was “???”
Some of those YT comments are really funny.
I like the ones that go "player has disconnected from the server."
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@topspin said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@dcon Just wait for the reboot while you're doing 130kph.
Rather the software update while you are inmidst of Beijing's morning rush hour...
(yes, that already happened. Article was linked somewhere here around. )
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@Gustav said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@dcon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Beside, the car industry was one of the first to introduce subscriptions. Also known as leasing.
Leasing isn't a subscription, it's an accounting trick.
Ah, yes, you lease it back from the company you sold it to so that it comes out of the operating ledger instead of the capital fund.
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Apparently, the sensors of some electric car have blind spot, so if you've driving a bike, don't slow down when making a turn.
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@cheong looks more like the blind spot was between the seat and the steering wheel
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@cheong looks more like the blind spot was between the seat and the steering wheel
I have the impression that the car behind the bike is using auto-follow function. Then as the bike turn and drove into blind spot, the car behind sensed nothing is ahead and accelerates, thus knocking the bike down.
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@cheong said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
sensed nothing is ahead
Self driving cars simply won't be effective so long as they are unable to effect object permanence in the environment.
Is it really so hard to program "this thing you saw is unlikely to have disappeared into nonexistence between this frame and the next"?
It tickles me to go end to watch a real-time display showing things like traffic lights and lane markers blink into and out of existence. Especially when the vehicle is not in motion.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Self driving cars simply won't be effective so long as they are unable to effect object permanence in the environment.
I'd be very surprised if they didn't have some sort of inter-frame object position estimation already, if not as a way of filtering high frequency noise from imperfect sensors. But what do I know.
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@cheong said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@cheong looks more like the blind spot was between the seat and the steering wheel
I have the impression that the car behind the bike is using auto-follow function. Then as the bike turn and drove into blind spot, the car behind sensed nothing is ahead and accelerates, thus knocking the bike down.
The problem might be that the car software doesn't realize that the steering wheel is turned and that the motorcycle drove away from the path straight ahead of the car but might still be in the path of the car. If you enable adaptive cruise control and a car in front of slows down then your car will slow down until the one in front has moved sufficiently out of the way.
In any case Volkswagen warns that you shouldn't be using adaptive cruise control here in the first place (unofficial site I think but looks like a copy of a real manual):
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@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@topspin said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@dcon Just wait for the reboot while you're doing 130kph.
Rather the software update while you are inmidst of Beijing's morning rush hour...
(yes, that already happened. Article was linked somewhere here around. )Driving through Death Valley, it starts to update, fails, and refuses to move until
re-sanctified by an acolytemaintained by a certified dealership. You're out of cell phone range, and it's getting rather hot...
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@Tsaukpaetra In this instance cameras probably saw nothing, considering that it's raining in the video (notice the wipers). If any automatic systems were on, they had to be using some type of ultrasonic sensor. Which would have degraded performance. And would likely be strictly directional, pointing straight ahead.
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@Zecc said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I'd be very surprised if they didn't have some sort of
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@cheong said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
sensed nothing is ahead
Self driving cars simply won't be effective so long as they are unable to effect object permanence in the environment.
Is it really so hard to program "this thing you saw is unlikely to have disappeared into nonexistence between this frame and the next"?
It tickles me to go end to watch a real-time display showing things like traffic lights and lane markers blink into and out of existence. Especially when the vehicle is not in motion.
There are false positives all over the sensor data, so they have to ignore things popping in an out of "existence" or else self driving will cause full breaking activation randomly in dangerous situations.
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra In this instance cameras probably saw nothing, considering that it's raining in the video (notice the wipers). If any automatic systems were on, they had to be using some type of ultrasonic sensor. Which would have degraded performance. And would likely be strictly directional, pointing straight ahead.
Radar. They're using radar. Ultrasonic is only usable for very short distances.
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@Rhywden Oh. Right. I keep forgetting that's a thing for civilians now. In a car, are we talking a scanning radar, or a fixed forward-pointing one?
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Rhywden Oh. Right. I keep forgetting that's a thing for civilians now. In a car, are we talking a scanning radar, or a fixed forward-pointing one?
Should be fixed-foward. At least that's what it looks like on my ID.3
Definitely no spinning stuff in there and for a phased-array it's way too small.
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
and it's getting rather hot...
Batteries do that before the .
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@cheong said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@cheong looks more like the blind spot was between the seat and the steering wheel
I have the impression that the car behind the bike is using auto-follow function. Then as the bike turn and drove into blind spot, the car behind sensed nothing is ahead and accelerates, thus knocking the bike down.
If it's on adaptive cruise, the bike's in the area the car can see. Plus it looks like it has the camera above the windscreen so probably has VW Front Assist or whatever it's called which definitely can see to the front corners.
I'm still putting money on the driver got distracted by the crash.
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I'm still putting money on the driver got distracted by the crash.
Because that never happens!
: (mutters)<censored/>
∞ rubberneckers!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
object permanence
Object permanence is not automatically / instinctively given. Just read it up in the works by Piaget: a baby does not have it yet, it gets developed within 2 years:
So why would you expect software developers to cope with such a sophisticated psychological concept?
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@BernieTheBernie There you are!
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@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
So why would you expect software developers to cope with
such a sophisticated psychologicala concept?Fixed for the reason of TDWTF's existance.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
a baby does not have it yet, it gets developed within 2 years:
...
So why would you expect software developers to cope with such a sophisticated psychological concept?Beware of babies younger than 2 years driving cars.
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@JBert Your link talks about Volkswagen but the logo is Mazda
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It has a little "V"-shaped part in the middle, does it not? Close enough
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@TimeBandit
Volksda obviously
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@Zecc said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
already
Tesla didn't last time I was unlucky enough to be in one. Maybe that's changed?
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@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@cheong said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
sensed nothing is ahead
Self driving cars simply won't be effective so long as they are unable to effect object permanence in the environment.
Is it really so hard to program "this thing you saw is unlikely to have disappeared into nonexistence between this frame and the next"?
It tickles me to go end to watch a real-time display showing things like traffic lights and lane markers blink into and out of existence. Especially when the vehicle is not in motion.
There are false positives all over the sensor data, so they have to ignore things popping in an out of "existence" or else self driving will cause full breaking activation randomly in dangerous situations.
I seem to operate just fine.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
So why would you expect software developers to cope with such a sophisticated psychological concept?
Game devs seemed to manage it, and we all know how shitty those are!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I seem to operate just fine.
For certain values of "fine".
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
So why would you expect software developers to cope with such a sophisticated psychological concept?
Game devs seemed to manage it, and we all know how shitty those are!
I'm not so sure they do. Games left and right seem hell-bent to forget enemies ever existed. Usually when you turn the camera away so you don't see the corpse for a moment. Thanks a lot, Dead Space 2. Taught me to pop every enemy +1 round, just to pull out the loot before object impermanence sets in.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
object permanence
Object permanence is not automatically / instinctively given. Just read it up in the works by Piaget: a baby does not have it yet, it gets developed within 2 years:
I wonder how old this birb is:
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@boomzilla that actually explains a lot. I'd have trouble using turn signals if they were on the right side, too.
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@Gustav said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I'd have trouble using turn signals if they were on the right side
You prefer them on the wrong side?
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@TimeBandit that's just how I was taught at school, it's hard to change old habits. Lefty laney, righty wipey.
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@Gustav said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I'd have trouble using turn signals if they were
on the right sidethe headlights, not the turn signals, too.
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@HardwareGeek let me guess. You're American?
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@Gustav said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
You're American?
!!!
Seriously, looking at the pictograms on that control, they indicate {off|parking lights|headlights} and {low beam|high beam}. Ah, I missed that the arrows indicate turn signals. I never look at the symbols on the turn signal control in my car, because muscle memory.
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@HardwareGeek not to mention that if lights are operated with a stalk, it's always the turn signal stalk and not the wipers stalk.
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Status: Next y'all gonna tell me that little triangle next to the ⛽ indicator tells me which side of the vehicle the fuel inlet is on!
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@Gustav said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I'd have trouble using turn signals if they were on the right side, too.
I've driven cars with the indicator stalk on the right-hand side before. You get used to it pretty quickly after you've accidentally turned the wipers on a couple of times.