The Official Status Thread
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@Tsaukpaetra three popular webcomics about nerdy stuff. Who would have guessed!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
what Bing
This site does not make a good sidebar site...
Edit: Wait why does the sidebar interact like I'm using touch when the main page area does not?!? (i.e. click-dragging moves the page like a touch would)
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Wait why does the sidebar interact like I'm using touch when the main page area does not?!?
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@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
page area does not?!?
Trust me, making the main content area smaller does not make Edge suddenly think my mouse is a finger.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Edit: Wait why does the sidebar interact like I'm using touch when the main page area does not?!? (i.e. click-dragging moves the page like a touch would)
My money is on Chrome being Chrome. Do other websites have this problem too?
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@Gustav said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Edit: Wait why does the sidebar interact like I'm using touch when the main page area does not?!? (i.e. click-dragging moves the page like a touch would)
My money is on
ChromeEdge beingChromeEdge. Do other websites have this problem too?Yes, every website I add to the Sidebar believes my mouse is a finger.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
every website I add to the Sidebar believes my mouse is a finger.
Are you sure your mouse doesn't identify as a finger?
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@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
every website I add to the Sidebar believes my mouse is a finger.
Are you sure your mouse doesn't identify as a finger?
It's at least giving him one.
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@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
every website I add to the Sidebar believes my mouse is a finger.
Are you sure your mouse doesn't identify as a finger?
Only when touching the sidebar I guess.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
maybe even dragging the ruler around by clicking anywhere on it.
Handle
#WM_NCHITTEST
by returning#HTCAPTION
and you should be good to go. Just be careful of double-clicks.For your other problem, there is a
#WM_SIZING
message, and nothing stops you from painting during it instead of during#WM_PAINT
, but anyone on an RDP connection will curse your name to the darkest depths.
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status: pondering adapting the MouseJack vulnerability into a intended feature.
Elaborating: allowing a bog standard Logitech unifying receiver to be paired with another for the purpose of sending live keyboard and mouse events from one computer to another.
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@TwelveBaud thanks! I was working through the docs, there was a time I knew all of this, but that was 20 years ago…
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I used to fool around with non-rectangular forms back in the days and I don't remember having to fuck around with the message loop to get it done. For other reasons, but not for dragging and resizing. Then again, Delphi was light years ahead of everything else back then in terms of ease of use and how quick you could just have simple things done. Probably still is.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: Fine, be that way!
You ought to use mysql: that will allow such date values...
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Status: Told off for filing a bug about a glaring code error (a missing break statement in a case block) because I didn't check if there were any functional consequences.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in The Official Status Thread:
I used to fool around with non-rectangular forms back in the days and I don't remember having to fuck around with the message loop to get it done. For other reasons, but not for dragging and resizing. Then again, Delphi was light years ahead of everything else back then in terms of ease of use and how quick you could just have simple things done. Probably still is.
Good toolkits handle the fucking around in the message loop for you (turning it into callbacks at the right time), because that stuff is annoying to write.
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The only reason I’m messing around there is because I don’t particularly like the default behaviour - if I wanted to let the default behaviour of “window resize triggers an event for repaint”, I can do this and this works.
I just wanted to be a snowflake around redrawing during resize so as you drag the ruler length out, you see the markings and numbers as you do so, as opposed to dragging an outline and triggering the repaint after that.
It is also weird to have something other than the title be a drag handle.
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@BernieTheBernie said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: Fine, be that way!
You ought to use mysql: that will allow such date values...
That's where the values are coming from. I'm currently too lazy to figure out why it's sending that out instead of the
null
everything else claims is there.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The only reason I’m messing around there is because I don’t particularly like the default behaviour - if I wanted to let the default behaviour of “window resize triggers an event for repaint”, I can do this and this works.
I just wanted to be a snowflake around redrawing during resize so as you drag the ruler length out, you see the markings and numbers as you do so, as opposed to dragging an outline and triggering the repaint after that.
It is also weird to have something other than the title be a drag handle.
I remember doing all of that in a VB .Net project at one point, it wasn't particularly difficult from what I recall. 🤔
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@PleegWat said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: Told off for filing a bug about a glaring code error (a missing break statement in a case block) because I didn't check if there were any functional consequences.
You mean, those guys follow
BEST PRACTICE
?
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@Tsaukpaetra I remember it being faff in VB 5 like 20 years ago. And it’s a bit faff in PureBasic because by default resize gets you the resize handle and an outline of the window being resized.
It’s not really designed for this purpose, and I didn’t want to get into full fat .NET since PB talks about small binaries without external dependencies and also cross platform support which I want in future projects.
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@dkf said in The Official Status Thread:
Good toolkits handle the fucking around in the message loop for you (turning it into callbacks at the right time), because that stuff is annoying to write.
Said good toolkits are also very expensive. Delphi has a Community Edition these days, but a sits on the sign up form.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The only reason I’m messing around there is because I don’t particularly like the default behaviour - if I wanted to let the default behaviour of “window resize triggers an event for repaint”, I can do this and this works.
I just wanted to be a snowflake around redrawing during resize so as you drag the ruler length out, you see the markings and numbers as you do so, as opposed to dragging an outline and triggering the repaint after that.
It is also weird to have something other than the title be a drag handle.
This feels weird to me. I only have an RDP connection to a Windows VM open, which intentionally behaves differently in this regard than a local machine, but I distinctly remember this behavior changed at some point between Win95 -> Win98 to fully draw while dragging / resizing instead of showing a XOR rubber band overlay. Because, you know, computers had become mighty fast enough to do that easily.
When did they change that back, and why?
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in The Official Status Thread:
Said good toolkits are also very expensive.
Not necessarily. Not necessarily at all. But some people like to torture themselves with raw WinAPI or GTK.
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@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
When did they change that back, and why?
Not sure they did.
Other options than automatic have checkboxes for each of the items, enabled by default according to the connection speed selected. 10 Mbps WAN or LAN has this thing in particular enabled.
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@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
When did they change that back, and why?
Win10 gives you live resizing with a local desktop, at least by default (I've not looked for a setting to change it). But resizes generate a lot of events very quickly, and that shows up just how much latency RDP actually has, so it's not surprising that they turn them off.
The XOR effect itself went because it turns out to be more expensive to handle with modern displays than it was on the old 256-color palette displays, especially when it interacts with common little things like a video playback.
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@dkf and that’s the hilarity, I’m getting the XOR effect via PureBasic, and that’s not what I want. But this may be failing on my knowledge of how to frobnicate the foobars correctly.
As a wrapper around things, PB is fine, it’s just I’m getting in to do very nasty things that it doesn’t support and very quickly getting into the raw WinAPI.
Would be curious which other frameworks you have in mind.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
do very nasty things that it doesn’t support
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
small binaries without external dependencies and also cross platform support
This seems... at odds with itself.
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@Tsaukpaetra that’s what it claims. I’m still on my first toy application and haven’t made actual builds yet, so results unclear, ask again later.
I know it can push out SDL or GTK bound apps for Linux though. Obviously what I’m doing at the moment won’t cross compile at all.
No idea what voodoo it does for Mac. Don’t really care either.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
Would be curious which other frameworks you have in mind.
I know Qt does event routing (using the MOC to simplify things into base C++), and I definitely know that some other toolkits do too, given that I may have written bits of them...
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@dkf Qt is only non-expensive if you’re open source. If you’re doing anything not open source, it’s actually rather expensive, well out of the price range that I’d consider paying for, with what I have in mind.
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@Arantor Well, I can tell you for sure that there's no charge at all for using Tk, but you'll need an extension if you're going to do a non-rectangular window. I have an extension for that... but it's had absolutely no maintenance for 20 years so I've no idea if it builds or works. (It probably works; the APIs required haven't changed.)
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
@dkf Qt is only non-expensive if you’re open source. If you’re doing anything not open source, it’s actually rather expensive.
Not true, it's LGPL.
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@topspin the pricing page is literally too complex for me to figure out what parts are usable under LGPLv3 or GPL and what requires the $300/seat/month+ licensing.
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@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
this behavior changed at some point between Win95 -> Win98 to fully draw while dragging / resizing instead of showing a XOR rubber band overlay
I configured Windows 7 to still behave that "Win95" way. I do not know if it's possible on Window 10, too.
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@Arantor only some addon modules by
TrolltechNokiaThe Qt company. We publish commercial software without paying for Qt.
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@topspin they hide it very well.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
@topspin they hide it very well.
Yes, unfortunately. They're going out of their way to make you think all of it is GPL (or commercial alternative), because they want to aggressively monetize it. A lot of people are not too fond with the direction the Qt company has turned things.
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@topspin Last time I looked at it, the way I understood it was that you can use the library without paying, but if you modify the library (and distribute it), you need to pay.
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@topspin and I have no objections to that as a policy, it’s just I don’t fancy trying to figure it out when I should be working, and the numbers are high enough that it’s a straight dealbreaker for me. I don’t mind throwing some cash for tools/libraries/whatever, even a few hundred bucks. But a few hundred bucks a month is a non starter for me.
I’m sure I could figure out the licensing but I’m not exactly short of other things to explore to see what fits my agenda. Just because PB is the first one I hit doesn’t mean it’s my first, last or only choice. It’s just worth a few days experimentation, and if it turns out to not be worth the hassle in the end, I’ll go find something else.
I do have some things in mind about aesthetics which I know I can achieve in my current tool of choice without it being a total nightmare, something I can’t say is the same elsewhere.
Fun fact, one of the screen ruler programs I’ve had over the years let’s you rotate the ruler to arbitrary angles. I don’t plan on implementing that feature, because frankly a ruler aligned to, say, 4 degrees from horizontal doesn’t look good.
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@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@topspin Last time I looked at it, the way I understood it was that you can use the library without paying, but if you modify the library (and distribute it), you need to pay.
Yes, that's what "LGPL or commercial license" means, essentially.
But what @Arantor rightfully complains about is that they make this very much not clear, and want you to think that you need to pay unless your product is open source. This wasn't always like that.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
the numbers are high enough that it’s a straight dealbreaker for me. I don’t mind throwing some cash for tools/libraries/whatever, even a few hundred bucks. But a few hundred bucks a month is a non starter for me.
Agreed. At some point I've contemplated if their "Qt charts" module would be worth buying, as it looks slicker than our currently used alternative, and has less impedance mismatch than other free alternatives. But you can't just buy that and use it together with the free LGPL base Qt. At that point you have to pay for everything, which is a "lol no" from me.
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@BernieTheBernie said in The Official Status Thread:
@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
this behavior changed at some point between Win95 -> Win98 to fully draw while dragging / resizing instead of showing a XOR rubber band overlay
I configured Windows 7 to still behave that "Win95" way. I do not know if it's possible on Window 10, too.
It's still there in Windows 11.
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@Tsaukpaetra That's "Show window contents while dragging", I was getting at "Show window contents while resizing" which doesn't seem to be an option.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra That's "Show window contents while dragging", I was getting at "Show window contents while resizing" which doesn't seem to be an option.
Weird, all that would need in order to be performant is a fairly simple shader and to have jammed the captured contents in as a texture.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
page area does not?!?
Trust me, making the main content area smaller does not make Edge suddenly think my mouse is a finger.
MS want's you to Edge them with your finger, not your mouse?
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@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
Trolltech
I forgot this company existed. Back in their day, Qt was full GPL. They chose a very appropriate name. This great cross-platform GUI framework is right here, you can use it for free for any kind of software, except no you can't, pay up
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
Just because PB is the first one I hit doesn’t mean it’s my first, last or only choice.
On the other hand, if you started with Qt it likely would be.
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@Gustav said in The Official Status Thread:
@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
Trolltech
I forgot this company existed. Back in their day, Qt was full GPL. They chose a very appropriate name. This great cross-platform GUI framework is right here, you can use it for free for any kind of software, except no you can't, pay up
Ironically, the initial concern with KDE wasn't GPL, but that it was non-free. In 1998 Trolltech then released Qt under QPL and the KDE Free Qt Foundation ensured that if Trolltech ever removed the option for freely available Qt, they would be able to re-license it as they see fit under BSD style terms.
But by that point there already had been announcements for GNOME as a free replacement. Had Qt always been under the GPL, the FOSS people wouldn't have cared about it not being LGPL. But the initial non-free version made them create this technically inferior abomination that nowadays is being pushed to kill KDE.
Bonus :
Also, we believe that KDE has some design problems (they have lots of good ideas though) that we plan to fix.
ETA:
GNU Network Object Model Environment
That's even more stupid than GIMP.
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@topspin "we'll make our own desktop environment, with blackjack and hookers!" start by implementing blackjack and hookers
Sometimes I think the GPL hardliners are sponsored by corporate interests to ensure open source never truly takes off due to endless internal splits, much like communist activists in 19th and early 20th centuries. Has anyone noticed that recent jump in Linux's popularity perfectly coincided with the rise of cloud computing and death of Software As A Product business model?