😈 The Evil Ideas thread
-
So I take it there are no christians who commit crimes and all muslims that commit crimes do it because they are muslim?
If so, you sound like someone who doesn't pay attention to the news.
-
someone who doesn't pay attention to the news
Unless you count The Daily Show, this is an accurate description of me.
-
Unless you count The Daily Show, this is an accurate description of me.
If watching it causes you to draw conclusions like that, then I'm sure it shouldn't be counted. Here's the deets:
- Islamic extremists are doing all sorts of crazy things in the name of Islam
- President and his spokesmen have been lampooned for refusing to admit those guys are Islamic and doing these things in the name of Islam
- President just gave a speech where he misrepresented things like the Crusades and Inquisitions and then applied them as a moral equivalence to what the Islamic crazies are currently doing (e.g., beheadings, burning alive, slavery)
I can't see which part of that justifies any bit of your "So I take it..." thing. Maybe you were thinking of something that someone else said or did, but that's what I (and Jindal, who originally said what was in my post) was talking about.
-
President just gave a speech where he misrepresented things like the Crusades and Inquisitions and then applied them as a moral equivalence to what the Islamic crazies are currently doing (e.g., beheadings, burning alive, slavery)
It sounds a lot like they saw a history book and thought "that sounds fun! we should do that!"
-
Most of the Crusades were complete charlie-foxes, but the original idea was noble: To stop the expansion of a newfangled religion called Islam that was enslaving and beheading infidels in the Middle East.
-
It sounds a lot like they saw a history book and thought "that sounds fun! we should do that!"
You don't read many history books either, from the sound of it. But, yeah, I think they're trying to relive the Islam of Mohamed's day.
Most of the Crusades were complete charlie-foxes, but the original idea was noble: To stop the expansion of a newfangled religion called Islam that was enslaving and beheading infidels in the Middle East.
+Ú¸
-
Ok, quick question:
Why are we discussing beheadings and wars in the funny stuff thread?
-
Why are we discussing beheadings and wars in the funny stuff thread?
I thought it was a funny comment. I could Jeff the followups to the BAD IDEAS thread.
-
Sounds more like the Evil Ideas Thread.
-
Done. Unless you're Blakey, and then you probably can't see this stuff yet.
-
Done. Unless you're Blakey, and then you probably can't see this stuff yet.
Doesn't this belong in the Funny Things thread?
-
Sounds more like the Evil Ideas Thread.
More accurately the Road to Hell thread, but here also works.
-
I've never actually dug down to hell in Dwarf Fortress. I should try that some time.
-
People who can't take criticism are no longer leaders. Leaders imply servitude.
The only remaining option is dictator/tyrant etc.
-
The problem is that it's hard to differentiate these two groups.
People that do and do not understand the risk and need of police to protect themselves and that mistakes happen in split second decisions.
I'm ok for holding cops accountable for
- Neglect.
- Attacking a restrained target.
- Attacking a target without reasonable suspicion or cause.
I can't hold cops accountable for
- Accidental deaths due to resisting arrest.
- This magical line of unreasonable force to be determine by people who have never been in a life threatening situation.
I kid you not, discussing home defense with someone led to the following comment.
You shouldn't be allowed to just shoot someone who breaks into your home. What if it was a drunk who is at the wrong home. You can't predict whether the person will cause you harm, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to attack them.
But what if you hesitate and he kills your family.
Well, then I feel really bad for you and your family.
Remember, he has a family too. What are you going to tell his family.Thinking to myself: That he was an irresponsible person who threatened my life and I will not take the time to calculate whether I can diffuse a situation peacefully when the threat is occurring in my home.
and while I'm thinking about it, you feel really bad for my family. Yeah, I'm not your friend now.Seriously people. We've lost all sense of personal accountability.
Enough is enough.
What's really funny is that if this guy finds himself in a life threatening situation, his whole "morality conflict" is going to vanish. The sad part, is that he'll live the rest of his life with unreasonable guilt, or as a hypocrite.
-
Most of the Crusades were complete charlie-foxes, but the original idea was noble: To stop the expansion of a newfangled religion called Islam that was enslaving and beheading infidels in the Middle East.
Yeah...that didn't happen. The original Muslim Empire readily welcomed everyone and even made a pretty penny servicing Christians who wanted to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, etc. The only way they really discriminated was that non-Muslims had to pay a slightly higher tax rate.
If you have a reputable source that says otherwise, I would be happy to see it.
-
Yeah...that didn't happen. The original Muslim Empire
What about the expanded Muslim Empire? Or whatever you want to call it. Dhimmitude ain't the same as not being invaded in the first place.
-
Islam has always spread by conquest and forced conversion, and non-Muslims have pretty much always had second-class citizen status (or worse, preaching your non-Islam religion to Muslims is punishable by death under Sharia) within Islamic areas. There were a few bright spots in Islamic history when they were actually fairly tolerant, but that was the exception and not the norm.
-
You shouldn't be allowed to just shoot someone who breaks into your home. What if it was a drunk who is at the wrong home. You can't predict whether the person will cause you harm, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to attack them.
Welcome to the land of proportional violence. Where, if you lift a finger against him, he's in hospital a day officially arrested and gets sent away with a warning and maybe a low fine. And you're in jail for a week under suspicion of assault.
Filed under: I wish I was kidding, I'm not a fan of guns but we're at the opposite end of the spectrum
-
Yeah, but you were talking about the period of the Crusades. That was an
especially tolerant time for them. So your point is moo.Also, if you want to contrast Islam and Christianity, you need to come up
with something better than, "They have done the same things...just at
different times." Everything you said about Islam is also applicable to
Christianity in history.
-
-
Everything you said about Islam is also applicable to Christianity in history.
Apples to oranges. Islam has had conquest and extermination of the infidels since Mohammed's time. He started that stuff. Christianity, however, had a 1000 - 1500 year dark age where it was a power-hungry political organization attempting to establish itself as a successor to the Roman Empire, where the basic tenets of the religion were not even known by most followers and even leaders! Which is why the Protestant Reformation and translation of the Bible away from Latin was such a big deal, because people began to realize the "Christians" in power had virtually nothing to do with the religion. We got over our history and corrected ourselves. But the other side has all that stuff built-in, which is why I'm willing to claim that "Islam IS the problem" when so many claim it's only the extremists. The thing breeds extremists out of those who really study and follow it.
This is why Obama's comparison was so controversial. He shows a complete misunderstanding of both Christian and Islamic history.
-
Fine. You can make up your own history if you want to. I can't stop you.
-
-
Welcome to the land of proportional violence. Where, if you lift a finger against him, he's in hospital a day officially arrested and gets sent away with a warning and maybe a low fine. And you're in jail for a week under suspicion of assault.
Yikes. At least that's in the right thread.
-
he's in hospital a day officially arrested and gets sent away with a warning and maybe a low fine
Commas please! I'm, guessing this is what you meant:
he's in hospital a day, officially arrested, and gets sent away with a warning and maybe a low fine
-
Fine. You can make up your own history if you want to. I can't stop you.
Well, since you already did...I mean, anyone likening (or defending someone else doing that) the Crusades to ISIS or al Qaeda is confused.
-
You mean the Ottoman Empire?
I was more thinking about the Moors. Who, among other things, took over a bunch of the Iberian peninsula.
-
-
Well, since you already did...I mean, anyone likening (or defending someone else doing that) the Crusades to ISIS or al Qaeda is confused.
Put words in mouths much?
-
-
Which is why the Protestant Reformation and translation of the Bible away from Latin was such a big deal, because people began to realize the "Christians" in power had virtually nothing to do with the religion.
You need to look up just how thoroughly asshole-ish the Puritans really were. Or, if you prefer it quoted at you that way, consider Matthew 7:5.
The inclination of people to be assholes to each other based on perceived differences is strong, and needs a lot of effort to suppress. Why do we suppress it? Because we know abundantly from history just how bad it can get otherwise. At the moment, we appear to not need to do that suppression violently against most Christian fundamentalists (thank goodness!) but it seems that there's going to need to be an… example… made of some Islamic fundies in the Syria/Iraq region.
anyone likening (or defending someone else doing that) the Crusades to ISIS or al Qaeda is confused.
They're not the same, but there are some commonalities in how people can be nasty to each other in the name of religion. I'm sure we can find other instances of this sort of thing too.
-
-
They're not the same, but there are some commonalities in how people can be nasty to each other in the name of religion.
If you're limiting it to that, OK, but don't act like the Crusades was just Christians mugging Muslims. And it's important to note that one happened centuries ago while the other is right now.
-
No, Obama was pretty clear on this one, I thought.
Now...look back over the thread and find where I supported him...
-
If you're limiting it to that, OK, but don't act like the Crusades was just Christians mugging Muslims.
Of course not. The details are very different, and it would be totally untrue to say that the Crusades are even the prime example of just how bad Christians can be to other people in the name of religion.
And it's important to note that one happened centuries ago while the other is right now.
Of course. One's of principally academic interest, and the other is a present threat.
-
Now...look back over the thread and find where I supported him...
After you look back and point out where I said you did.
-
After you look back and point out where I said you did.
You at least implied it...blakey.
-
-
-
What's really funny is that if this guy finds himself in a life threatening situation, his whole "morality conflict" is going to vanish.
You'd like to think that, but then there was that woman who was raped in Haiti, while helping rebuild after the earthquake or whichever disaster it was a few years ago, and blamed herself because of privilege or something stupid.
-
which is why I'm willing to claim that "Islam IS the problem" when so many claim it's only the extremists. The thing breeds extremists out of those who really study and follow it.
People who don't believe this should take the time to read parts of the Koran, bearing in mind that it's arranged by chapter length and not chronology, so verses that are physically later in the book do not necessarily override (physically) earlier verses.
-
-
People who don't believe this should take the time to read parts of the Koran
Yeah, or the bible. Listen the whole religion thing is a smokescreen; people turn to religion when their life is fucked up and it gives them purpose. There are extremists in Syria because they've been at war since forever. If there was a christian state in the same situation Syria is in, you bet your ass we'd be hearing about all the fucked up shit the christian fundamentalists there were doing.
-
People who don't believe this should take the time to read parts of the Koran, bearing in mind that it's arranged by chapter length and not chronology, so verses that are physically later in the book do not necessarily override (physically) earlier verses.
Horseshit. Have you ever read the Christian bible? Very little of it would be considered moral today either. The majority of it is down right deplorable.
Religion is the problem. It gives people a prepackaged reason to hate those who believe things different than they do.
When is the last time you heard of "atheist fundamentalists" forming a terrorist cell? Or enslaving a group of people? Or committing genocide?
-
You'd like to think that, but then there was that woman who was raped in Haiti, while helping rebuild after the earthquake or whichever disaster it was a few years ago, and blamed herself because of privilege or something stupid.
I am not doubting you, but could you link to a source so I can bask in the WTFery?
-
When is the last time you heard of "atheist fundamentalists" forming a terrorist cell? Or enslaving a group of people? Or committing genocide?
I believe the communist regimes in the Soviet Union, China and elsewhere were officially atheist, at least to start out with. I guess we've just got to accept that adherence to any kind of ideology, whether religious or not, does not give us an automatic way to avoid being beastly to other people.
-
I believe the communist regimes in the Soviet Union, China and elsewhere were officially atheist
That's a bit of a stretch to make them fit my definition. ;-)
-
I supposed one could argue that the communist regimes in the Soviet Union and Maoist China used slightly different atheist religions to justify their crimes against humanity, and that North Korea is currently doing the same.
You did say "atheist fundamentalists" though.
The problem is division and fearmongering, especially by charismatic leaders, not religion per se.
When a charismatic leader creates a "Not-us" group, points at them and says "That group over there are the reason for your shitty lives, go kill them", then one or more of war, terrorism, genocide and crimes against humanity are likely to follow.
It doesn't matter what criteria are used, it just needs to be a "Not Us".
-
It doesn't matter what criteria are used, it just needs to be a "Not Us".
Yeah, well, it also helps a fair bit if you have supernatural backing. Jonestown would not have happened if not for religion. ;-)
