🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD
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Does she have clearance to be on the tarmac?
I don't know. I guess this is the place I shouldn't have buttumed that "she has clearance" goes without saying.
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If she were a fat dude named "Chuck", would you feel better?
Not necessarily.
Because fat dudes named "Chuck" crawling into engines is what maintenance is.
You mean fat dudes named "Chuck" who know WTF they're doing around a multi-million dollar piece of equipment?
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Whiny busybodies.
I'm in favor of harming them. Or rather, giving them so much to whine about they die of shock, thus improving the gene pool.
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Climbing on the engine?
You know those are strong enough to support a person's weight, at least there, right? Because people get up there all the time (or so I assume) for maintenance. There's these little "no step" signs that tell you where ... not to step.
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What could she POSSIBLY do from there to cause mechanical problems?
Put an anvil in front of the blades. That would cause everyone on board to have a bad day if not discovered.
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@boomzilla said:
Climbing on the engine?
You know those are strong enough to support a person's weight, at least there, right? Because people get up there all the time (or so I assume) for maintenance. There's these little "no step" signs that tell you where ... not to step.
Yes. That doesn't mean you want people playing around there.
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You mean fat dudes named "Chuck" who know WTF they're doing around a multi-million dollar piece of equipment?
I have a degree in "knowing where to sit on jet engines". It's called "don't sit where the sign says NO STEP", you insensitive clod.
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You mean fat dudes named "Chuck" who know WTF they're doing around a multi-million dollar piece of equipment?
I'm just saying if you were sitting in the plane and Chuck was crawling all over the engine, what would be the indication to you that he knows WTF he's doing around an engine? But I wager nobody on that plane would have complained about Chuck, or even noticed him.
Put an anvil in front of the blades.
I knew that invisible ultra-lightweight anvil technology was going to bite us in the ass someday!!!
You know the biggest concern here is that cowling is probably filthy. Did she have like a huge dirty spot on the back of her skirt all day? That's what the fuss should be about.
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The airline's employees aren't exactly "random people".
I was wondering which pendant would comment on that. Congratulations.
Nevertheless, she has no business there.
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I knew that invisible ultra-lightweight anvil technology was going to bite us in the ass someday!!!
He said POSSIBLE not PROBABLE.
I chose an anvil because it would cause a lot more damage, probably, than something mushier like a person.
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Nevertheless, she has no business there.
Pfft.
I have no business going to a lot of places I go. For example, I frequently go into classy restaurants.
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I'm just saying if you were sitting in the plane and Chuck was crawling all over the engine, what would be the indication to you that he knows WTF he's doing around an engine? But I wager nobody on that plane would have complained about Chuck, or even noticed him.
Possibly not. But she was obviously not someone who should have been. A guy in a Ronald McDonald suit would have drawn some attention, too. None of that excuses her, so I'm not sure what your point is.
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RACISM!
See this is all due to her appearance.
For all you know, Chuck was just crawling around there trying to find his contacts, and she's a qualified certified jet turbine mechanic. YOU DON'T KNOW!
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Nevertheless, she has no business there.
Who says?
If she's still got a job today, the airline clearly disagrees.
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sitting != playing, although I get your point.
Right, but she was posing for pictures. Not just sitting. Who knows? Maybe she was given a vial of acid or something that would corrode the turbines or something (I don't think she was malicious, but that's one reason you keep people away from this sort of thing).
See this is all due to her appearance.
Yes, that seems to be your argument and I still can't figure out why.
For all you know, Chuck was just crawling around there trying to find his contacts, and she's a qualified certified jet turbine mechanic. YOU DON'T KNOW!
That's true. I never said I did (about "Chuck"). The airline should, however. And I'm pretty certain, pedantic dickweedery aside, that a stewardess isn't.
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If she's still got a job today, the airline clearly disagrees.
Uh huh. CBA to see if Spirit flight attendants are unionized, but that's a common reason why people who should be fired aren't.
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CBA to see if Spirit flight attendants are unionized
I started to google that and it suggested "are spirit airlines safe".
Also, apparently they are, but I didn't look beyond that.
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Yes, that seems to be your argument and I still can't figure out why.
Well, I never say anything that's a joke or not literally true, so. There must be some deeper meaning to it you're missing.
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There must be some deeper meaning to it you're missing.
I just assumed you were banging the stewardess.
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Nope.
Chuck.
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For all you know, Chuck was just crawling around there trying to find his contacts, and she's a qualified certified jet turbine mechanic. YOU DON'T KNOW!
Except the article clearly states she's a flight attendant and she isn't dressed for maintenance.
Come on, you have to better than that.
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Like what?
What could she POSSIBLY do from there to cause mechanical problems?
Leave an object behind? Jet engines don't appreciate it when they go to inhale and something flies in their mouth...talk about an expensive way to lose your phone! (Not that the mechanics are immune to it either -- even with all the drilling they get on tool control, sometimes 2AM brain fog takes over and makes it not even register for Chuck...cue expensive post-maintenance engine runup)
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@blakeyrat said:
What could she POSSIBLY do from there to cause mechanical problems?
Put an anvil in front of the blades. That would cause everyone on board to have a bad day if not discovered.
A pen falling out of her pocket would probably do unpleasant things to an engine...
I'm just saying if you were sitting in the plane and Chuck was crawling all over the engine, what would be the indication to you that he knows WTF he's doing around an engine? But I wager nobody on that plane would have complained about Chuck, or even noticed him.
I'd assume he's checking something and knows what he's doing (assuming he's "properly" attired). I'm not going to assume a flight attendant knows diddlysquat about an engine.
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I chose an anvil because it would cause a lot more damage, probably, than something mushier like a person.
Considering a goose can take out an engine, a person would probably do a lot more damage. And they better have a helmet on.
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Considering a goose can take out an engine, a person would probably do a lot more damage.
Oh, sure, but in terms of damage, I bet a dense slab of iron would really fuck up an engine in a way meat wouldn't.
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Depends. If it's a typical turbofan, somewhere around 90% of the airflow is bypass air and simple probability means the object is likely to only travel through the fan and pass through the bypass airflow. It may still damage the fan, but the fan is relatively low-speed and can survive minor damage.
If the foreign object happens to miss the bypass flow and goes into the jet engine itself, though, we're probably looking at catastrophic damage. There are very high-RPM compressor blades in there, some of which are stationary while others are rotating, in very close proximity to each other where an object can easily get jammed between them.
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Well, yeah. And it would be a hell of a lot easier to clean up after...
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If the foreign object happens to miss the bypass flow and goes into the jet engine itself, though, we're probably looking at catastrophic damage.
Animal or anvil, I'm sure that's likely to be the case. But meat would probably shred and do less damage to those blades; an anvil would resist shredding and probably break more of them.
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As a bartender serving over 50 shots to someone.
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Considering a goose can take out an engine, a person would probably do a lot more damage.
A goose could probably take out a flight attendant too.
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A goose could probably take out a flight attendant too.
Absolutely. Those suckers are mean!
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Animal or anvil, I'm sure that's likely to be the case. But meat would probably shred and do less damage to those blades.
For a stationary Jet engine you appear to be correct:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZV3siHf910
But what happens when you add a few hundred MPH of momentum to that?
Would an anvil do more damage? Let's just say "it depends".
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You do know that the birds were fired from a chicken-gun in the first video?
The birds were going at a few hundred MPH - which is why you can see the blades moving.Here's another multi-barrel chicken cannon, this time at Rolls-Royce:
https://youtu.be/4nAc7wab-l4
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But what happens when you add a few hundred MPH of momentum to that?
MPH is not a unit of momentum, it's a unit of velocity. Momentum is mass times velocity, so you'd need to know the mass of the plane to come up with a meaningful momentum value. Also, MPH is not metric and I don't know of a non-metric unit of momentum, though one could abuse terminology and use MPH lbs as a non-metric unit as long as the pounds component is understood to be equivalent to the mass of an object which has a weight of one pound at sea level at the equator.
Furthermore, I think the momentum of the plane is generally irrelevant since it's going to be magnitudes larger than the momentum of the bird for any size of plane available in the year 2015, with the possible (but improbable) exception of something like a jet-equipped Cessna 162 encountering a large emu, in which case the engine ingesting the bird is probably the least of the pilot's concerns.
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The birds were going at a few hundred MPH - which is why you can see the blades moving.
No, you can see the blades moving because of this neat invention called a high-speed camera. See, your average video camera captures images at a rate between 24 and 30 frames per second (FPS). High speed cameras are capable of capture rates as high as 1,000 FPS.
The speed of the frozen chicken has nothing to do with the visibility of the blades you dumbass.
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MPH is not a unit of momentum, it's a unit of velocity.
I am aware of that, however, without any velocity, you have no momentum. I was trying to imply that if you have a mass and give it a velocity, you impart it with a momentum.
Apparently you are too short sited to infer that information from my post.
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MPH is not a unit of momentum, it's a unit of velocity.
Actually, it's a unit of speed; for it to be a velocity, you need to define a direction as well ;)
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The high speed camera part was in the video description, and I presumed all present can read.
If the birds were moving slowly, then you would not see the blades and the birds moving in the video because the impact could not be recorded in such a way that the blades were visible.
Either the birds would not move, or the blades would move too fast for visibility.- and if stationary, there could be no impact at all.
Thus, the fact that you can see the blades moving indicates that the birds were moving very quickly.
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short sited
twitches
Actually, it's a unit of speed; for it to be a velocity, you need to define a direction as well
Fine. Forward.
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Furthermore, I think the momentum of the plane is generally irrelevant since it's going to be magnitudes larger than the momentum of the bird for any size of plane available in the year 2015, with the possible (but improbable) exception of something like a jet-equipped Cessna 162 encountering a large emu, in which case the engine ingesting the bird is probably the least of the pilot's concerns.
Youre forgetting that velocity and momentum are relative to one's frame of reference. You are considering everything from a stationary frame of reference within which the plane and bird are both moving. When dealing with impacts and trying to determine the damage caused, it may be beneficial to consider different frames of reference.
In this case, I would propose using the plane as your frame of reference and consider the bird as an incoming projectile. That makes it much easier to consider how you get damage such as this from a bird strike:
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I don't think frame of reference matters. At any inertial non-relativistic frame of reference, the momentums of the bird and the plane with respect to each other will be the same thing.
At relativistic or non-inertial frames of reference, my brain explodes.
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The pedantry is strong in this topic today.
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I don't think frame of reference matters. At any inertial non-relativistic frame of reference, the momentums of the bird and the plane with respect to each other will be the same thing.
Sure it does. If you use the plane as you frame of reference, its momentum is immediately defined as 0. Then you only need to worry about the momentum of the bird.
But, moments before the bird hits, you realize: momentum has fuck-all to do with it! It's all about the force of impact! As you rush to calculate the force just before the bird hits, visions of tornadoes flinging strands of hay through oak trees swirl through your head. Then, at the moment of impact, you throw your hands in the air and scream, "To belgium with it! The bird's dead anyway!"
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Enjoy
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I'd assume he's checking something and knows what he's doing (assuming he's "properly" attired). I'm not going to assume a flight attendant knows diddlysquat about an engine.
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It's all about the force of impact!
(Resultant) force is rate of change of momentum. In a bird strike, that force is quite high because of the large difference in velocities. The force would be considerably higher if the plane encountered an anvil flying the in the opposite direction at the same speed, but the probability of that's pretty low.
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(Resultant) force is rate of change of momentum. In a bird strike, that force is quite high because of the large difference in velocities. The force would be considerably higher if the plane encountered an anvil flying the in the opposite direction at the same speed, but the probability of that's pretty low.
That's really good to hear. Because, I swear, Wiley E. Coyote has one of those darned anvils in the stratosphere, like, every other minute.