Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?
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Honestly, I'm of the opinion minimum wage SHOULD be dealt with on the city or county level.
This is where my panties get in a wad with the 15 dollar min wage argument I see a lot. It reallllly depends where you're located.
Cities like San Fran, LA, NYC, etc... where costs of living are so high, really do need a minimum wage like that. You literally can not live in those cities otherwise.
A city like mine, 10 or 12 is probably more appropriate. You can get by on 8 or 9, but it'd suck... 10 or 12 min is appropriate here (and most any job that doesn't have a fast turnover usually starts you at 10, or gets you to 10 within the first few months... and I'm talking shit jobs that all my highschool drop out buddies have). If it went 15... it probably wouldn't kill our local economy, but it certainly would generate some inflation, and several businesses would suffer.
But there are towns out there that legitimately do not need a 15 dollar... implementing such a thing in their town would destroy their local economies. There are vast parts of our country that just are NOT the coastal or midwestern metropolitan powerhouses. I've been through towns with 450 dollar rent. And such a town would be crippled by that sort of inflation.
So I sort of get the conservative stance on minimum wage (though I'm not sure most conservatives intent... but I assume this probably plays a part... I don't like to just think all conservatives are idiots or anything).
I share a similar stance.
Of course the types out there who argue "why should someone at mcdonalds make 15 dollars, I only make 12.50 as an EMT" or something of the ilk.
- you'd be making minimum 15 if such a law passed
- you'd probably make more than that because an EMT is higher skill than McDonalds. Just like currently you make more than 8 dollars, you'd (in theory) make a nominal amount more if min wage went up.
Of course... there in lies the crux of it all... that getting paid more in parity to the others is inflation. It WILL happen.
Hence why I'm all about the local governments being the ones who control the minimum wage.
But then we get into another issue... local governments who suck at their job. One of the big issues in local government is that so many are full of bad politicians because votes don't really pay attention to their local governments and really only give a shit about the big ones... almost always the President exclusively. Which I find hilarious since in the grand scheme of things, the President doesn't have that much power... intentionally so. (this is why Trump/Hillary doesn't scare me so much... it's merely a reflection of the political atmosphere right now... but that's a whole other topic all together).
This is why I would be willing to consider something like a regulatory statute on local governments. That the local region needs to set a min wage at something "livable" for their local median cost of living (not mean, median... for as well all know averages can get blown out of proportion. A median would be the common or normal cost of living). Of course the specifics of which could get complicated... and as we know, with complication comes pork/filler.
Which is why I'm also meh about such an option. It's got potential to get fucked up.
But in the mean time... a federal minimum wage that gets absurd like 15 dollars would cause more damage than allowing local governments to do it. If the locals fail to increase, they're no different than currently... things didn't get worse, they just remained the same. Which, even though this may suck, a federal mandate could potentially hurt them (and in several places, will hurt them, no doubt about it).
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@xaade - yeah, that one took me off guard as well.
I for the longest time just associated coon with raccoon, or cats (Maine coon).
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@boomzilla So… you're more liberal than me, then? Bookmarked for future reference, I will definitely bring this up the next time you rant about liberals.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Cities like San Fran, LA, NYC, etc... where costs of living are so high, really do need a minimum wage like that.
Gah! To the minimum status thread with you!
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/18717/minimum-status/816@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
So I sort of get the conservative stance on minimum wage
I don't believe that you do (based on what you just said). I mean...OK, some of the bigger picture local control / federalism arguments, but not the policy on its own merits (but not gettign down to the level of libertarian principles). It's just bad economics.
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@asdf said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@boomzilla So… you're more liberal than me, then? Bookmarked for future reference, I will definitely bring this up the next time you rant about liberals.
Duh. but of course that's in a classically liberal sort of way, of course.
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@asdf said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
I'm 56% liberal, BTW. For future reference: Another test that confirms I'm not an extreme leftist, as boomzilla and xaade seem to think.
They're both on the radical right, no matter how much they try to dress up their rhetoric.
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@Luhmann said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
it's a shop and it sells ... bottles!
You get their contents for free.
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@mott555 Yeah, anyone that has grown up on anything remotely close to a working ranch will find nothing on there disgusting.
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@boomzilla - hence my 'sort of'. I was saying that I get the stance, we differ on rationale.
I mean that we do both agree that raising the minimum wage to numbers like 15 dollars is ridiculous. And I assume that you'd agree that it's because it makes bad economic sense due to the amount of inflation it would cause, and how it'd hurt small business. And that even though towns like NYC and SanFran could take it, and already usually pay near that amount... it'd rip most local economies through out the country to shreds.
Do we not agree on that?
Or, is that not the common conservative idea.
I think the only thing we disagree on is that I'm ok with some sort of minimum wage, but having a high federal minimum wage is bad.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Cities like San Fran, LA, NYC, etc... where costs of living are so high, really do need a minimum wage like that. You literally can not live in those cities otherwise.
This is where I differ from the people who want to raise the minimum wage.
Here's a good rule of thumb that politicians ignore all too often: you can't fix a problem by making it worse. Let's repeat that, because it bears repeating. You can't fix a problem by making it worse!
With that in mind, let's ask a question of those who want to raise the minimum wage to a "living wage":
Q: the current minimum wage, was it a living wage at the time it was established?
A: Of course it was; that's why they set it there.
Q: And has the minimum wage changed since then?
A: No; we just established that. Why are you asking obvious questions?
Q: Because, if the current minimum wage was a decent living wage at the time it was established, and now it's not, and it hasn't changed, why is everyone saying it's the current minimum wage's fault?
A: Because it hasn't kept up with inflation!
Q: Well then, obviously the real problem is inflation, not the current minimum wage. Why aren't we trying to drive down the cost of living instead?
A: *gasp!* Horrors! You're talking about deflation! We can't have that, because [insert a bunch of econo-babble about people not wanting to spend while prices are dropping here] and it would utterly destroy the economy!!!
Q: So we can't drive down the cost of living because [econo-babble], so we need to raise wages to keep up with inflation?
A: Exactly.
Q: And who all makes minimum wage?
A: The ordinary people who do stuff that's important in our everyday lives!
Q: Like... food? Lots of minimum-wage work in the food industry?
A: Exactly!
Q: And everyone needs food, and we'd be in bad shape if we didn't have people providing it for us, so we need to take good care of them?
A: Now you get it!
Q: Just one problem with that.
A: ...and that is?
Q: Everyone needs food.
A: ...yes?
Q: And food comes to the vast majority of us by way of corporate interests, whether it be grocery stores or restaurants, yes?
A: Sure.
Q: And corporate interests are greedy by definition, and in business to turn a profit, yes?
A: Exactly! That's why they're oppressing their workers, because they can, and we need to raise the minimum wage so they can't!
Q: So you've just increased the price to these corporates for providing food, which everyone needs. Being greedy, they're not gonna take that lying down; they want to protect their bottom line. That means they're going to jack up prices to compensate, and probably a little bit more on top of that, because they can.
A: Umm... maybe...
Q: The poor people making the least money tend to live paycheck-to-paycheck, with all their money going out to basic needs--such as food. Which means that once the price of basic needs goes up to compensate, they're not actually any better off, now are they? And everyone else who didn't get a raise because they were above the new minimum wage, their prices went up too, so now they're worse off. All it does in the long run is drive inflation even higher, which is how we got into this mess in the first place.
A: What?!? No, that would totally not be a thing that ever happens! What do you have against people making a living wage?!?(Note: I have actually had this conversation. More than once. It always ends that way.)
Remember: You can't fix a problem by making it worse.
@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@Captain said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
radical right
What does that mean to you?
It means you're conservative and totally radical, dude!
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@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Q: the current minimum wage, was it a living wage at the time it was established?
A: Of course it was; that's why they set it there.I...don't think so.
@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
It means you're conservative and totally radical, dude!
Well, yeah, that's what it means to me, but I want to make sure that @Captain has an appropriate definition.
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Left versus right are a different axis than radical versus conservative. Radicals want change. The far-right radical wing of the Republican party is a reactionary movement that wants to do things like end immigration, end free trade, charge our allies for defense, and all kinds of other crazy nonsense that goes against the Republican dogma of like the last 150 years.
If the Republican party wants to be pro-business, it needs to embrace modern economics, because that's what businesses embrace. Globalization instead of parochialism.
How many jobs are going to be lost when Trump puts a 40% tariff on China? How many jobs are going to be lost when Trump kicks out the "illegals"? It's lots -- production costs will go up and firms will close down. What will happen then? More dependence upon the state, caused by the state. Does that sound conservative? It's just rent seeking behavior.
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So apparently no-one actually read the description page where it says that the survey is based on a study using MRIs that had a 98% confidence?
http://chartsme.com/disgust-politics/?results=1 says:
The questionaire on chartsme.com uses Jonathan Haidt's disgust scale in lieu of MRI and imagery, so results are likely far less accurate.
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@Captain said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
The far-right radical wing of the Republican party is a reactionary movement that wants to do things like end immigration, end free trade, charge our allies for defense
And you think this describes me? Interesting. I'll grant you that I'd at least like to see immigration law actually enforced and think that there's a pretty good argument for reducing (though I certainly wouldn't eliminate it) our overseas military footprint. I guess that could be twisted into "charging allies for defense."
@Captain said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Does that sound conservative?
No, not at all. That's all stuff why I opposed Trump.
@Captain said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
More dependence upon the state, caused by the state. It's just rent seeking behavior
Yep. Well, not "kicking out the 'illegals'." Which I suspect is more likely to reduce rent seeking behavior if anything. That would probably also mean a somewhat higher cost of living for people higher up the income ladder, including me. I thought it was kind of funny when Michael Bloomberg noted that people like him would have to pay more for, e.g., maintaining golf courses:
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg says golf fairways would suffer if illegal immigrants were returned to their native country.
"You and I are beneficiaries of these jobs," Bloomberg told his WABC-AM radio co-host, John Gambling. "You and I both play golf; who takes care of the greens and the fairways in your golf course?"
I mean...personally I benefit from having more low skilled labor around to wash dishes and make french fries and cut grass. Uneducated Mexican peasants or any sort of Middle East refugee isn't coming here and competing for my job. I think it's at least important to keep in mind the people who are likely to be harmed the most from an increase in the unskilled labor pool.
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@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Here's a good rule of thumb that politicians ignore all too often: you can't fix a problem by making it worse. Let's repeat that, because it bears repeating. You can't fix a problem by making it worse!
Worked for Ray Nagin. Just sayin'.
@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Q: the current minimum wage, was it a living wage at the time it was established?
A: Of course it was; that's why they set it there.That's not even remotely close to true.
Maybe if instead of "current minimum wage" you meant "first ever minimum wage in 1938", but then... it's still not true, so. (Adjusted for inflation, the 1938 minimum wage was only $4.19 in today's dollars.)
@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
(Note: I have actually had this conversation. More than once. It always ends that way.)
And none of the people you talked to pointed out that your very first assertion was a lie?
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Worked for Ray Nagin. Just sayin'.
Former mayor of New Orleans? Screwed up the Katrina aftermath? Currently serving prison time for corruption issues so serious they were willing to actually give a high-ranking politician prison time over them? That Ray Nagin?
How exactly did it work for him?
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@masonwheeler New Orleans isn't a wasteland, because he was so terrible at his job that everybody else had to swoop in and fix his shit up.
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@masonwheeler New Orleans isn't a wasteland
Believe it or not, I don't actually see that as a good thing.
So you've got a bunch of dumb people who live in a coastal area, below sea level, during a time of global warming when seas are known to be beginning to rise. You don't have to be Einstein to know what's going to happen to their city eventually, even if it's difficult to predict exactly when or how it will happen. But it inevitably will, and it did.
And when the inevitable finally happens, you'd think they could take a hint, but noooooo... they decide to rebuild in the exact same place!
This is how you know they're dumb people.
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Maybe if instead of "current minimum wage" you meant "first ever minimum wage in 1938", but then... it's still not true, so. (Adjusted for inflation, the 1938 minimum wage was only $4.19 in today's dollars.)
The original minimum wages were mainly racist laws designed to keep blacks taking jobs away from whites.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
The original minimum wages were mainly racist laws designed to keep blacks taking jobs away from whites.
...huh?
Not even going to ask if that's true or not, because the more prominent question is, how would the one even accomplish the other in the first place?
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
The original minimum wages were mainly racist laws designed to keep blacks taking jobs away from whites.
Ok? How is that relevant to anything? Even if it were true, which I doubt.
What is interesting about it is that the minimum wage law appears to be one of the early examples of the Supreme Court using the Commerce Clause to justify Federal control over literally fucking anything ever. Although maybe even by 1938 that was already old-hat.
@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Not even going to ask if that's true or not,
Well of course not, you don't seem very interested in the truth based on that little 1-act play you posted.
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@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Not even going to ask if that's true or not, because the more prominent question is, how would the one even accomplish the other in the first place?
I like it. Making effort to maintain ignorance!
Why racists love the minimum wage laws
A survey of American economists found that 90 percent of them regarded minimum-wage laws as increasing the rate of unemployment among low-skilled workers. Inexperience is often the problem: Only...
In 1925, a minimum-wage law was passed in the Canadian province of British Columbia, with the intent and effect of pricing Japanese immigrants out of jobs in the lumbering industry.
A Harvard professor of that era referred approvingly to Australia’s minimum wage law as a means to “protect the white Australian’s standard of living from the invidious competition of the colored races, particularly of the Chinese” who were willing to work for less.
In South Africa during the era of apartheid, white labor unions urged that a minimum-wage law be applied to all races, to keep black workers from taking jobs away from white unionized workers by working for less than the union pay scale.
Some supporters of the first federal minimum-wage law in the United States — the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931 — used exactly the same rationale, citing the fact that Southern construction companies, using non-union black workers, were able to come north and underbid construction companies using unionized white labor.
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
How is that relevant to anything?
It's countering the idea that the impetus for a minimum wage was a "living wage."
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@boomzilla Well ok but I already said it wasn't. Address that shit to masonwheeler, he's the confused one.
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@blakeyrat OK:
Hey, @masonwheeler:
@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Maybe if instead of "current minimum wage" you meant "first ever minimum wage in 1938", but then... it's still not true, so. (Adjusted for inflation, the 1938 minimum wage was only $4.19 in today's dollars.)
The original minimum wages were mainly racist laws designed to keep blacks taking jobs away from whites.
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@boomzilla Great. How do you think he'll reply to it? I think he might say something like he's not going to ask if it's true, but then also ask how it accomplishes that goal.
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@blakeyrat Take a deep breath. Sometimes people agree with something you wrote and elaborate on what you said by quoting it. It doesn't mean that other people won't read it and respond to it.
I'll bet he can figure it out.
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
That's not even remotely close to true.
Maybe if instead of "current minimum wage" you meant "first ever minimum wage in 1938", but then... it's still not true, so. (Adjusted for inflation, the 1938 minimum wage was only $4.19 in today's dollars.)So one could argue though that inflation isn't the best way to mark this. Adjusting incomes based on inflation is fine in short distance, but 1938 was a technologically different time where the difference in goods is vastly different. For example houses cost very different prices, not just set by inflation, but because houses are very different today. Today you get a refrigerator, often central climate control, and the sizes are different.
If maybe you track for the minimum wage vs average income might be what people mean when they say the 1938 minimum wage was a 'living wage' (which is what FDR referred to it as in 1933 when initially trying to push it in the National Industrial Recovery Act... but it got ruled unconstitutional...).
Well I'm seeing numbers like 1700 dollars being the average income in 1938. And today it's about 52,000.
OK... lets just say 40 hours and 52 weeks (they're the same in both, so metrics should not diverge too much).
That's $520 dollars in 38' at the 25 cents an hour. And $15,080 at todays 7.25 an hour.
That's 30% of the average income in 38' and... get this, 29% of the average income today.
Hrmmm... depending how you look at the numbers, they're roughly unchanged.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Some supporters of the first federal minimum-wage law in the United States — the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931 — used exactly the same rationale, citing the fact that Southern construction companies, using non-union black workers, were able to come north and underbid construction companies using unionized white labor.
The Davis-Bacon act was not the first min-wage. It had to do with private contractors working on federal contracts having to pay 'prevailing wages', which was often the 'union wage', to the people they hired. This was a limited subset of the market, and wasn't a minimum wage. It was more about union supporting... and from the position of this article, racism.
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@lordofduct I wouldn't call $15,600 a livable wage.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Hrmmm... depending how you look at the numbers, they're roughly unchanged.
Don Boudreaux (economist at George Mason University) did a series of posts comparing average wages and the prices of various things over the years by looking at Sears catalogs. For instance:
Cataloging Our Progress from 1975: Using Sears.com's Selection on New Year's Day 2013 - Cafe Hayek
TweetAbout two hours ago (approximately noontime, EST, today) I went to Sears.com and took notice of the first five groups of items promoted on that webpage. How does the work-time cost of these items today compare to the work-time cost of similar items in 1975? The five groups of items featured...
From memory, it's very few items where the number of hours to work in order to afford the same goods goes up over time. And that's even considering that modern stuff is often a lot better.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
The Davis-Bacon act was not the first min-wage.
Indeed. And I never said that it was.
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
It had to do with private contractors working on federal contracts having to pay 'prevailing wages', which was often the 'union wage', to the people they hired. This was a limited subset of the market, and wasn't a minimum wage. It was more about union supporting... and from the position of this article, racism.
Yes, it was just a different way to use the concept of a minimum wage to keep undesirables from competing.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Hrmmm... depending how you look at the numbers, they're roughly unchanged.
Don Boudreaux (economist at George Mason University) did a series of posts comparing average wages and the prices of various things over the years by looking at Sears catalogs. For instance:
TweetAbout two hours ago (approximately noontime, EST, today) I went to Sears.com and took notice of the first five groups of items promoted on that webpage. How does the work-time cost of these items today compare to the work-time cost of similar items in 1975? The five groups of items featured...
From memory, it's very few items where the number of hours to work in order to afford the same goods goes up over time. And that's even considering that modern stuff is often a lot better.
Yes, but we're not talking about average wages; we're talking about minimum wages.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
My mother lives on far less.
Yeah but are you counting the buck and a half she gets from every USS Abraham Lincoln sailor?
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@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Yes, but we're not talking about average wages; we're talking about minimum wages.
You're right, blakey, it's not related to the discussion at all. Even remotely.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
The Davis-Bacon act was not the first min-wage.
Indeed. And I never said that it was.
Well yeah, you didn't. You were quoting an article.
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
My mother lives on far less.
Yeah but are you counting the buck and a half she gets from every USS Abraham Lincoln sailor?
I'm not following...
Is this a "your mother is a whore" joke?
Cause she's a mentally ill, abusive, shitty parent... but not much of a whore. That was my job.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Well yeah, you didn't. You were quoting an article.
Are you aware of an earlier Federal Minimum Wage law?
Maybe you're just talking about how it was only about some work? If modern minimum wages exempt some workiers (e.g., food servers) does that make them not True Minimum Wage Laws?
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@lordofduct I thought you were more of a "kidnap animals and place them inside killer robots for some reason" guy.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Well yeah, you didn't. You were quoting an article.
Are you aware of an earlier Federal Minimum Wage law?
Maybe you're just talking about how it was only about some work? If modern minimum wages exempt some workiers (e.g., food servers) does that make them not True Minimum Wage Laws?
I'll make an analogy, and then explain what I was saying.
I could press for a zoning law that required large yards around your house on a large piece of property in my hometown (which there are). And I may do this because I'm racist and it'll keep lower income people out of said town, and consequently black people. But that does not mean home zoning laws are designed to be racist.
- I don't think that the Davis-Bacon act is representative of minimum wage law. It pertains only to incomes of employees of contractors taking federal contracts. Essentially it's the federal government saying, "if we're going to hire you, you must pay your employees at X dollars", that amount being pretty much what unions charge, giving unions the upper hand (this was a time where unions were being debated in courts a lot, where the previous decades there was pressures to ban them as conspiracies to subvert free economics). It'd be the same as if I only hired companies who employed unioned workers.
You could even show that the Supreme Court tangentially agreed, since 2 years later when FDR tried passing a 'minimum wage' law in the 'National Industrial Recovery Act' in 1933, the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional. But said nothing about federal contracts going to employers. The Davis-Bacon was about how federal dollars would be spent, the other was on how private companies were allowed to spend its own non-federal dollars.
This I find to be a BIG distinction between minimum wage law, and the Davis-Bacon act. One has to do with individual rights (business owners), the other with bidding on contracts from the federal government. There are several laws and regulations prior to 1931 that deal with what standards private companies working on federal contracts must meet, may it be related to wage, or related to a multitude of other standards like safety.
- I don't think that the Davis-Bacon act is representative of minimum wage being designed to oppress African Americans. It may have some ties to racism in that people who supported it were also racists, in a time when being as such was a norm. But I'd also say it has just as much, if not more, to do with supporting Unions, in a time when Unions were vying for powers and leverage... especially from the government.
I would say that laws about unions, and laws about wages, just didn't care about race at the time... since non-whites were a lower class at the time. If a racist built a bridge, and said no blacks were allowed to drive on said bridge, doesn't mean the bridge was intended to subvert the black man. It means the bridge was intended to get over a river, and the racist prick who built it used it as a way to ALSO fuck with the black man, cause he's a racist dick.
In summation, I don't think it's good evidence for the argument. May the argument be true or not, not withstanding. I haven't fully considered everything to see if I agree with the argument. I'm just saying, as it stands, that one piece of evidence is flimsy in my book. As for the British Columbia, Australia, and South Africa examples... I know very little about them and so didn't say much on those.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
I'm on the fence about 'social sciences'... their studies seem to primarily be a bunch of polls and than applying those numbers to preconceived biases.
Real psychological science, for example, died when people decided that traumatizing some kids for life was unethical and shouldn't be done.
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@groo said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
I'm on the fence about 'social sciences'... their studies seem to primarily be a bunch of polls and than applying those numbers to preconceived biases.
Real psychological science, for example, died when people decided that traumatizing some kids for life was unethical and shouldn't be done.
Those pussies.
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@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
This I find to be a BIG distinction between minimum wage law, and the Davis-Bacon act.
You have the right to be wrong. I mean, I don't disagree that the scope is different between the two.
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
I don't think that the Davis-Bacon act is representative of minimum wage being designed to oppress African Americans.
Well, whatever you think, unions were definitely a tool of racists.
http://www.shmoop.com/history-labor-unions/race.html
I largely bring this up as an Alinsky Rule 4 way: Make them live by their own rules. These sorts of laws were overtly racist and had much bigger effects than things that go on today that get called racist due to adverse impact.
So when someone starts blowing smoke about minimum wage laws being invented because big hearted lawmakers just wanted to make sure people had a living wage, and why are people so cruel today when our ancestors were so beneficial...I'm going to call them out on their awful economics and their rewriting of history.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
You have the right to be wrong. I mean, I don't disagree that the scope is different between the two.
Not wrong, I just don't agree with you on what constitutes minimum wage law. I have valid reasons for drawing a line where I do, you just don't agree with that distinction.
@lordofduct said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
I don't think that the Davis-Bacon act is representative of minimum wage being designed to oppress African Americans.
Well, whatever you think, unions were definitely a tool of racists.
Tools of, doesn't make them inherently racist.
Law in general was the tool of racists, enacting laws that allowed people to own other people through out all of history.
I largely bring this up as an Alinsky Rule 4 way: Make them live by their own rules. These sorts of laws were overtly racist and had much bigger effects than things that go on today that get called racist due to adverse impact.
So there was racist unions. How does that mean unions are racist?
Racist people utilized the powers of a powerful union to be more racist. Which is fucked up. But if you take out the racists from the situation, and leave the union, the racism is no longer there. Case in point, your link mentions pro-black unions.
So when someone starts blowing smoke about minimum wage laws being invented because big hearted lawmakers just wanted to make sure people had a living wage, and why are people so cruel today when our ancestors were so beneficial...I'm going to call them out on their awful economics and their rewriting of history.
I'll agree it wasn't big hearted law makers. Personally never said it was. Though you weren't saying I was either,.
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@boomzilla said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Well, whatever you think, unions were definitely a tool of racists.
So were the corporations, the schools, the government, and the churches. Whatever came to hand was a tool of racists. Why does that justify singling out the unions? We don't like unions?
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@masonwheeler said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
And when the inevitable finally happens, you'd think they could take a hint, but noooooo... they decide to rebuild in the exact same place!
The dumb part isn’t living below sea level or rebuilding in the exact same place, it’s living below sea level and not building adequate defenses against the sea. Of course, my perspective on this is as someone from a country where the whole coastline is supposed to be strong enough to withstand storms of a strength that’s likely to occur only once every 2000 years, going up to once every 10,000 years for certain areas.
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@blakeyrat said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
New Orleans isn't a wasteland
You'll want to exclude the French Quarter from 10pm through to 6am from that.
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@CoyneTheDup said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
Why does that justify singling out the unions?
So discussion of a topic is now singling out?
@CoyneTheDup said in Is Your Brain a Democrat or Republican?:
We don't like unions?
Of course not.
