How did you start hating opensource?
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This question is open to anyone that hates opensource and would like to share a specific bad experience that made he realize that OSS is a bad idea.
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While I don't blanket hate [F]OSS, I think that [F]OSS libraries promote overuse of things that they might not need. It also can lead to anti-patterns in which native functions do exactly what a developer might want, but [F]OSS libraries blind them to it, making them reinvent the wheel. Does every website really need jQuery or Bootstrap? Having tons of crappy jQuery animations thrown at you gets annoying after a while.
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@Sumireko said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Does every website really need jQuery or Bootstrap?
These two libraries, in particular, encourage the worst kind of "ball of yarn" code.
Filed under: Couple all the things!
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@øtter Linus Tørvalds ønce bit my sister.
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@error said in How did you start hating opensource?:
These two libraries, in particular, encourage the worst kind of "ball of yarn" code.
Think back to when jQuery initially appeared and compare the landscape before and after.
There's no doubt jQuery was a great boon to website programming. The time has just ran it by.
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Trying to become a certified Linux sysadmin in my spare time. I decided it wasn't worth it.
It really is a mountain of different systems just thrown together. There's no organisation, no coherence on how the config files are formatted, where they are stored, all that.
Plus, I started thinking about capitalism and selling software, what incentives companies have, and all that. Open source projects generally get funding from a few companies with millions to spare, but that's like needing a highway to connect two cities and just hoping someone else will come along and pay for it so you can use it for free.
Commercial software has the potential to be more sustainable, with developers being rewarded for they work by the people who use it. But generally it just ends up being riddled with proprietary formats, vendor lock-in, ridiculously restrictive EULAs, locked platforms, and all that crap. So I guess there's no good solution.
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@cartman82 Fair point, though I credit the Second Coming of JavaScript more to Douglas Crockford.
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@anonymous234 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
There's no organisation, no coherence on how the config files are formatted, where they are stored, all that.
On the upside, almost all the config files are liberally commented.
If the Windows Registry had anywhere near as many comments in it as /etc does, it would be a lot easier to make stuff work properly.
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@flabdablet If you ever have to look in the Windows Registry for any reason, someone else fucked up. It's pure implementation detail.
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@blakeyrat But it could have been so much more!
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@anonymous234 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Trying to become a certified Linux sysadmin
No such animal.
Certifiable, sure. But you have to pass as sane or they take the job off you.
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@otter I donât hate open-source software, but developed a bit of a dislike for much of it back when I used to run Linux as my main OS in the early 2000s when every time I wanted to install something that hadnât come with the distro, I was re-acquainted with the meaning of the words âdependency hell.â Install a distribution straight from the box and things work fine; try to go beyond that â even just updating a program to a newer version than what came with the distro â and I spent one or more days tinkering and swearing with increasing frequency until I usually ended up saying âfuck thisâ and decided to keep using the old version.
These days my main complaint about much OSS is that it tends to have poor user interfaces, or at least, a UI thatâs varying degrees removed from the conventions of my normal OS (X) and is therefore more difficult to use than it needs to be.
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I hate the obsession with linux. When will people realize that OSS development on Windows is only a pain because everyone gives up early and switches to linux before fixing the problem? If you make both your code and your build process work on both platforms with minimal effort, suddenly neither is painful...weird, right? Also wtf who starts a new project with makefiles instead of CMake or meson!?
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@LB_ said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Also wtf who starts a new project with makefiles instead of CMake or meson!?
Make makefiles are simpler. CMake just made things more complex.
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@otter They're both shit compared to just dragging your C files into an IDE and hitting Build.
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@otter Right, but makefiles aren't very good at finding dependencies and importing their transitive dependencies, or creating IDE project files without human intervention.
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@otter said in How did you start hating opensource?:
This question is open to anyone that hates opensource and would like to share a specific bad experience that made he realize that OSS is a bad idea.
Emacs on Windows. Octave on Windows. The fact that it compiles and launches and gets to the main screen should not mean that it is ready for release.
Maybe I'm TR because I continue to use them.
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Licenses, the infectious ones. It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
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@otter I still don't know why compiling is such a hard task that we need so many complex dedicated tools to handle it. I mean, the standard way to compile C in Linux is to use a tool that generates a script (a >16k lines shell monstrosity, no less) that generates a script that finally compiles everything. Wtf?
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@Kian said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Licenses, the infectious ones. It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
+1. The FSF, with their extremist views about software development and their tendency to be extremely vocal on the subject, has done more to harm the adoption of free software than anything Microsoft or any other proprietary developer has ever pulled.
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@masonwheeler said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@Kian said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Licenses, the infectious ones. It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
+1. The FSF, with their extremist views about software development and their tendency to be extremely vocal on the subject, has done more to harm the adoption of free software than anything Microsoft or any other proprietary developer has ever pulled.
Why you making st Ignucius sad? :(
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@Kian said in How did you start hating opensource?:
It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
Actually, it's straight forward: if the product that you depend on doesn't have a clear license, your ass is hanging out legally-speaking. And if the license of your dependency contains the letters âGPLâ then avoid if you can. There are a few exceptions, but you really don't need the risk exposure.
OTOH, that's hardly the whole of the open source space. Not everyone is a communist jerkwad.
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@dkf I once met the author of SQLite, which instead of a licence has a "blessing" saying you can do whatever you want with the software. Apparently, companies quite often get in touch to say "Fuck you, take my money!" because they can't deal with not having a licence.
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@clatter said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@dkf I once met the author of SQLite, which instead of a licence has a "blessing" saying you can do whatever you want with the software. Apparently, companies quite often get in touch to say "Fuck you, take my money!" because they can't deal with not having a licence.
I love the backwards world we live in where apparently people are concerned about what happens if you don't pay for something...
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@anonymous234 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
It really is a mountain of different systems just thrown together. There's no organisation, no coherence on how the config files are formatted, where they are stored, all that.
Things started goes downhill after they decided to move away for being System V compatible. That was The Good Old Time ď
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@masonwheeler said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@Kian said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Licenses, the infectious ones. It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
+1. The FSF, with their extremist views about software development and their tendency to be extremely vocal on the subject, has done more to harm the adoption of free software than anything Microsoft or any other proprietary developer has ever pulled.
Why you make st Ignucius fierce?
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@masonwheeler said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@Kian said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Licenses, the infectious ones. It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
+1. The FSF, with their extremist views about software development and their tendency to be extremely vocal on the subject, has done more to harm the adoption of free software than anything Microsoft or any other proprietary developer has ever pulled.
Why you make st Ignucius indifferent?
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@masonwheeler said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@Kian said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Licenses, the infectious ones. It might not matter for a hobby project, but once you want to distribute something, figuring out what you can and can't do is more trouble than it's worth.
+1. The FSF, with their extremist views about software development and their tendency to be extremely vocal on the subject, has done more to harm the adoption of free software than anything Microsoft or any other proprietary developer has ever pulled.
Why you make st Ignucius nostalgic?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I love the backwards world we live in where apparently people are concerned about what happens if you don't pay for something...
Itâs pretty well established that people consider things you have to pay for as better than things that are free (âas in beerâ), because subconsciously, they figure: Why would it be given away for free if it was any good?
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@clatter said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I once met the author of SQLite
I've been collaborating with him on various things for the best part of two decades now. ;)
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I don't hate open source.
I hate its asshole evangelists. And I have one in the family. "OH NOES YOU ARE USING WINDOWS MICROSOFT EVIL LINUX GPL BLAH BLAH BLAH. OH NOES SOMEONE PORTED MY FAVORITE OSS PACKAGE TO WINDOWS DIE DIE DIE"Also I hate OSS developers who justify their crappy, unfinished, bug-infested, works-for-me softwarez with the fact that they didn't get money for it. FUCK YOU.
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@clatter As stupid as it is, the way laws work means that if you don't have a license with the exact magic terms and ALL CAPS DISCLAIMERS the courts want to hear, you could actually get in trouble if some bastard decides to sue you.
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I'm a Google fanboy, they do open source so I love open source. Take me Google take me.
In all seriousness Angular2 is pretty awesome, so is Java, Android w/e. Open source means there is a lot of crap, but it's free crap and you're not forced to use it, why not reinvent the wheel It's always a good solution!
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@ChrisH said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Also I hate OSS developers who justify their crappy, unfinished, bug-infested, works-for-me softwarez with the fact that they didn't get money for it. FUCK YOU.
If you want them to do something for you, you've either got to contribute, pay, or hope for the best. âStop what you're doing and work on my special things for nothing because I say so!â doesn't really work anywhere at all.
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@dkf said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If you want them to do something for you
I want them to stop publishing their shitty unfinished software. Either publish something you can be proud of, or keep your jerk-off practicing private.
There is a lot of good open source software, written by good developers I would gladly pay to implement some special snowflake feature only I need.
But it's hidden under heaps and heaps of shit written by people I would gladly pay to never touch a computer in their lives again.And don't get me started on stupid hipster bullshit hypes from people who can't afford enough vocals for their project names.
Or basically everything on a .io domain.
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@Mathijs-Segers said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I'm a Google fanboy
Please die in a fire.
In all seriousness Angular2 is pretty awesome
No.
so is Java
NO.
Android
Granted.
why not reinvent the wheel It's always a good solution!
What?
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@ChrisH said in How did you start hating opensource?:
But it's hidden under heaps and heaps of shit written by people I would gladly pay to never touch a computer in their lives again.
How much are you willing to pay
usthem?
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@dkf said in How did you start hating opensource?:
How much are you willing to pay
usthem?A dollar. Which, by definition, is :fa_infinity:% more than they would ever make writing FOSS software.
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@ChrisH said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I want them to stop publishing their shitty unfinished software.
int main(
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@ChrisH said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@dkf said in How did you start hating opensource?:
How much are you willing to pay
usthem?A dollar. Which, by definition, is :fa_infinity:% more than they would ever make writing FOSS software.
That just marks you out as a cheap-ass. Call it $100k per year and you'll get some traction.
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I don't hate FOSS, and I've made more of my professional life in it (having worked at Canonical from 2009-2014). That being said, I feel the FSF has done more to harm the development of free software more than anything else (the GPLv3 is a bad license for one, and very hard to understand from a brief reading. The GPLv2 is much clearer in this sense).
I do however dislike the way the entire ecosystem is going as a whole.
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@dkf said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I've been collaborating with him on various things for the best part of two decades now.
WOW CAN I GET YOUR AUTOGRA-- wait I don't give a fuck.
If you're going to be a dick and name-drop, at least name-drop someone actually famous.
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@dkf said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If you want them to do something for you,
How about if I want them to take some fucking pride in their work and stop making everybody in my profession look like incompetent assholes? Should I have to pay for that, too? Or shouldn't they... you know... just take pride in their work as a matter of course, because they aren't incompetent assholes?
How are we all supposed to feel with the most important open source role model releases something as awful as Git? Are we supposed to just applaud? "Look how awful it is to use! Look how few features it has! Look how horrible it performs if your repo contains binary files or gets too large! Truly a work of genius!" No. Fuck that noise. It's shitty software, it should never have been released to the public until it was made at least slightly non-shitty, and I'm calling-out that the emperor has no fucking clothes here.
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@blakeyrat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@flabdablet If you ever have to look in the Windows Registry for any reason, someone else fucked up. It's pure implementation detail.
I once used regedit to add custom context menu item to Explorer. Who fucked up what exactly?
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@blakeyrat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If you ever have to look in the Windows Registry for any reason, someone else fucked up.
Every time I have to do something in Windows Registry it's because I am following instructions from Micro-Soft to try to fix their
shittyOS.And I know who fucked up in that case.
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@blakeyrat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
How are we all supposed to feel with the most important open source role model releases something as awful as Git?
I disagree on Linus being our most important role model. Look at the work of Fabrice Bellard.
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@fbmac Has that guy, at any point, actually written a finished application? Even one?
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@blakeyrat I assume you already saw his page and didn't like any of his projects, so I have nothing to add. He is more into low level stuff and libraries than applications.
But Linus didn't make you any happier, did he?
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@TimeBandit said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@blakeyrat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If you ever have to look in the Windows Registry for any reason, someone else fucked up.
Every time I have to do something in Windows Registry it's because I am following instructions from Micro-Soft to try to fix their
shittyOS.And I know who fucked up in that case.
Yep.
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@fbmac Right; so the contribution is wanking around and doing nothing at all productive. Great. What a hero we should all emulate.