How did you start hating opensource?
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@theBread Not internet based and no visual basic in StarOffice. I think it's not related.
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@Weng IIRC, there are parts that are patented as well, though the original patents that applied to the earlier versions may have run out by now (CBA to check). Those parts are published, of course, so eventually they can be reimplemented, but they also tie into other parts that are TS, which is where things get really problematic for everyone - not only is it, well, secret, but anti-espionage protection covers any kind of theft regardless of how old the secret is (though proving theft of TSIP means revealing enough to the court to demonstrate that it is in fact the TSIP material; documenting when and how it was developed; and proving that it was either stolen outright via espionage or hacking, or that it was reverse-engineered in an illegal manner, rather than being an independent re-invention).
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@dcon
I considered that one but I excluded it for two reasons:- at emoji size it will become unreadable
- searching "works on my machine" in GIS gave me a top hit for that image on a certain blog
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@ben_lubar said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I'm not telepathic so I'll just assume you were lying.
@ben_lubar is @blakeyrat's alt CONFIRMED
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@FrostCat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@ben_lubar said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I'm not telepathic so I'll just assume you were lying.
@ben_lubar is @blakeyrat's alt CONFIRMED
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@blakeyrat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
"GEE WHAT A MYSTERY! CALL SCOOBY-DOO!"
Scooby Doo is over 40 years old. Just how long do you think Great Danes live, you heartless asshole?
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@boomzilla said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Scooby Doo is over 40 years old. Just how long do you think Great Danes live, you heartless asshole?
Maybe Scooby Doo is a title, not a name.
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@FrostCat and when it comes time for him to retire, he gets rid of the old gang, finds all new sidekicks, and stays on for a while calling himself Shaggy until everyone's accepted the new Scooby Doo.
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@anotherusername In this theory, is Scooby human, is Shaggy a dog, or is there some kind of transmutation potion available?
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@FrostCat said in How did you start hating opensource?:
In this theory, is Scooby human, is Shaggy a dog
I've never seen that much of a difference between them, anyway...
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@Weng said in How did you start hating opensource?:
opensource drivers don't bother implementing the parts that don't map
As far as I'm aware the only reliable open source NTFS driver is ntfs-3g from Tuxera, which has for some time now included support for a mapping between Windows and Posix user accounts and continually adds support for other NTFS features.
The main thing missing from ntfs-3g at this point, to the best of my knowledge, is support for persistent NTFS shadow copies. I would expect that using ntfs-3g to write to an NTFS volume containing persistent copy-on-write snapshots would corrupt them, as ntfs-3g simply wouldn't do the necessary copy-on-write operations.
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I hate being a commercial developer. I don't hate the OSS community - they're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers.
Filed Under: Actually, you could say it the other way around and it would make just as much sense, go figure.
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@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
colonized
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@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
ἆσέ με δαίμονος αἶσα κακὴ καὶ ἀθέσφατος οἶνος.
What does that mean? Google translate didnt seem to help much...
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@bb36e Try regular google.
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@anotherusername top two hits are here
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@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers
Props for Trainspotting reference.
Now you need to work in a simile about the worst toilet in Scotland.
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@bb36e said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
ἆσέ με δαίμονος αἶσα κακὴ καὶ ἀθέσφατος οἶνος.
What does that mean? Google translate didnt seem to help much...
ἆσέ me demon [Nominative Case] αἶσα bad and ἀθέσφατος οἶνος
There's a start.
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@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
you could say it the other way around
We are wanked by colonizers?
That depends I guess are they red heads drinking Guinness?
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@flabdablet said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers
Props for Trainspotting reference.
Now you need to work in a simile about the worst toilet in Scotland.
I'm pretty sure that would be CodeSOD. Or this forum, either one would fit.
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@Luhmann said in How did you start hating opensource?:
We are wanked by colonizers?
Wouldn't that make you a colonial dick?
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@bb36e I gave a pretty detailed explanation on the Dark Arts thread a few months back, shortly after I set the .sig in the first place. Long story short, it's a quote from Homer's Odyssey that is usually translated as "I came to this fate through bad luck and too much wine".
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@Yamikuronue said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@Luhmann said in How did you start hating opensource?:
We are wanked by colonizers?
Wouldn't that make you a colonial dick?
Great! Now I can pester the native females!
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@ScholRLEA Wow. Where did my translation go wrong......
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@ScholRLEA said in How did you start hating opensource?:
either one would fit.
We're the suppository of all wisdom!
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I keep reading this title as when did you start hatting open source and expecting @abarker to chime in
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GPL for the win!
While we believe that following the GPL's requirements is neither burdensome nor unreasonable, many fail to do so
That's because you are WRONG.
Most notably, a Linux developer named Patrick McHardy continues ongoing GPL enforcement actions but has not endorsed the community Principles.
Oh noes! We wrote a fucking stupid license that allows people to sue other people AND NOW THEY DO IT to get MONEYZ instead of fighting for our precious PRINCIPLES!
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@Jaloopa said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I keep reading this title as when did you start hatting open source and expecting @abarker to chime in
I'm pretty sure that would violate the TF2 cheat protection system.
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@ChrisH said in How did you start hating opensource?:
That's because you are WRONG.
Oh cut the crap.
The GPL's specific reason for existence is to create a category of free software whose ongoing development is enabled by the continued availability of a large pool of other free software, much of it under active development.
Commercial developers who are opposed to the GPL always piss and moan about how "viral" it is, which just reveals their actual motivation: a desire to benefit from the work put into the software whose licence they're whinging about without incurring the countervailing obligation to contribute in kind to the pool.
Yes, it sucks to have a limited range of stuff to bury inside your own commercial closed-source offering, but that's simply a consequential cost of your own org's choice to keep its own source code secret. It reflects no deficiency in the GPL.
"Fuck you, contribute" is every bit as reasonable as "Fuck you, pay me".
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@ChrisH said in How did you start hating opensource?:
GPL for the win!
While we believe that following the GPL's requirements is neither burdensome nor unreasonable, many fail to do so
That's because you are WRONG.
Most notably, a Linux developer named Patrick McHardy continues ongoing GPL enforcement actions but has not endorsed the community Principles.
Oh noes! We wrote a fucking stupid license that allows people to sue other people AND NOW THEY DO IT to get MONEYZ instead of fighting for our precious PRINCIPLES!
GPL enforcers? How Orwellian that enforcers are needed to enforce software "freedom".
I never did get what software "freedom" even means. It's like a Fox-definition from RMS.
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I never did get what software "freedom" even means.
It means that if the software is available to you, so is its source code.
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@flabdablet said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I never did get what software "freedom" even means.
It means that if the software is available to you, so is its source code.
Except that even if it is available to you, it probably isn't, because chances are you can't use it because the GPL is so restrictive.
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@mott555 That depends entirely on how you want to use it.
If you or your org wants to use any piece of GPL licenced code for your own internal purposes, you're completely free to do that. The licence guarantees that you're also free to modify it as necessary to suit those purposes.
What you're not allowed to do under the GPL is redistribute that modified code without also making its source code available to those you're distributing it to. That is, you're not allowed to deny to your customers the same freedoms that the supplier of the GPL licenced software has granted to you.
If you want to redistribute modifications to GPL-licenced code without making the source code to those modifications available, you need to contact the copyright holder and negotiate alternative licensing terms. These will probably involve monetary payment in exchange for the value you've received.
The purpose of the GPL is to bind the freedom to inspect and modify a piece of software to the ability to acquire it, not to reduce its economic cost to zero.
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@flabdablet Thing is, we're an ITAR-controlled shop and the State Department is always on us to make sure that everything is properly-licensed and not potentially being redistributed to a blacklisted country. If we had to provide our source code, I'm pretty sure the State Department would start denying export licenses because it would be dead simple for any customer to take our code and anonymously redistribute it to Bad Places™. Suddenly, no customers, all in the name of "freedom".
And have you ever tried to contact an open-source author? Most of the time it ends up being the lone library that does something important, but it's from 9 years ago and the author fell off the face of the planet since then.
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@mott555 If you're not in the business of developing free software, why would you expect a free software licence to work with you? Your options are: negotiate a commercial licence; find alternative software; implement alternative software yourself.
If it's really ever the case that the only library you can find to do some important thing is GPL-licenced with an unavailable author, don't blame the GPL for the resulting difficulty. Blame the inherent susceptibility of the closed-source commercial software ecosystem to market failure.
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@flabdablet said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Blame the inherent susceptibility of the closed-source commercial software ecosystem to market failure
How does that work when it's the developer of the open source project that you can't get hold of?
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@Jaloopa If a package you can't use because its licence conditions don't allow you to is the only economically feasible alternative, that's straight-up market failure.
The free software ecosystem is not a market as the relationships within it are not transactional in nature; it is therefore not susceptible to this failure mode.
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@flabdablet Here's a typical example in my experience:
Boss: We need such-and-such feature right now!
Me: Okay, I'll see what I can find.
time passes
Me: Okay, I found a library that does most of what we need. Problem is, it's the only one out there for our platform, and it's GPL.
Bosses: Talk to the developer, see if we can pay them for a non-GPL version.
Me: Hey, Open-Source guy, we'll throw money at you if you give us a non-GPL license for your library.
Open-Source Guy: No! You make your stuff open source NOW! GPL OR DIE!!! FREEDOM!! FREEDOM!! ALL HAIL STALLMAN!! frothing at mouth
Me: Boss, they said no. I can make our own version of the library, but it'll take at least six months to develop and test, assuming I don't have a bunch of other stuff to work on.
Bosses: Forget it. We just won't provide those features.
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@flabdablet said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If it's really ever the case that the only library you can find to do some important thing is GPL-licenced with an unavailable author, don't blame the GPL for the resulting difficulty. Blame the inherent susceptibility of the closed-source commercial software ecosystem to market failure.
Nice. So it's closed-source's fault when open-source projects fail.
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Bosses: Forget it. We just won't provide those features.
Clearly, that's your failure, because freedom is more important
thatthan being useful. You are vile scum because you want to write software that your business can make money from, rather than letting allz the dataz be FREEEEEEE.....
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@flabdablet said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If it's really ever the case that the only library you can find to do some important thing is GPL-licenced with an unavailable author, don't blame the GPL for the resulting difficulty. Blame the inherent susceptibility of the closed-source commercial software ecosystem to market failure.
I think Flabby's started his weekend drinking. TDEMSYR
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Me: Okay, I found a library that does most of what we need. Problem is, it's the only one out there for our platform, and it's GPL.
That's your problem, the library's author doesn't owe anything to you.
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@HardwareGeek said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Bosses: Forget it. We just won't provide those features.
Clearly, that's your failure, because freedom is more important that being useful. You are vile scum because you want to write software that your business can make money from, rather than letting allz the dataz be FREEEEEEE.....
It's always with stupid things too, like a PNG or weird compression library for some obscure platform. I can see wanting big useful free alternatives to commercial software for things like OS's and word processing suites...but come on, a PNG library?
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@flabdablet said in How did you start hating opensource?:
If it's really ever the case that the only library you can find to do some important thing is GPL-licenced with an unavailable author, don't blame the GPL for the resulting difficulty. Blame the inherent susceptibility of the closed-source commercial software ecosystem to market failure.
Nice. So it's closed-source's fault when open-source projects fail.
I completely fail to see how you get from what I said to what you said.
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
It's always with stupid things too, like a PNG or weird compression library for some obscure platform. I can see wanting big useful free alternatives to commercial software for things like OS's and word processing suites...but come on, a PNG library?
Then write your own stupid PNG library.
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@groo said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
Me: Okay, I found a library that does most of what we need. Problem is, it's the only one out there for our platform, and it's GPL.
That's your problem, the library's author doesn't owe anything to you.
I agree, but that doesn't mean they need to be an asshole. And it was free money for them.
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@groo And open-source it under a BSD/MIT licence :-)
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@groo said in How did you start hating opensource?:
@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
It's always with stupid things too, like a PNG or weird compression library for some obscure platform. I can see wanting big useful free alternatives to commercial software for things like OS's and word processing suites...but come on, a PNG library?
Then write your own stupid PNG library.
Already addressed above. Learn to read.
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
I agree, but that doesn't mean they need to be an asshole. And it was free money for them.
The GPL license doesn't obligue the library's author to be an asshole, and has nothing to do with it.
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@mott555 said in How did you start hating opensource?:
that doesn't mean they need to be an asshole.
Again, it's completely unfair to sheet home the blame for some asshole you find acting like an asshole to the authors of the GPL - unless the asshole in question is rms or any of his lawyers.