GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months
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@Yamikuronue my baby sister was born in '96. She voted in the referendum.
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@Yamikuronue said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
@ben_lubar said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I came here from 1994
Holy crap you're young.
Relax, he's only a year older than me.
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@Yamikuronue legally speaking I'm an adult, but I'm not an adult.
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@Yamikuronue said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I still have trouble realizing that people born in the 90s are adults now.
We're nearly at the point where we'll be starting to consider people born in 2000 to be adults.
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@bb36e Aren't we all, eh? Eh? Eh? Speak up!
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@pydsigner I'll just quote myself here:
@anonymous234 said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: gotta love the Ubuntu (LTS) repositories
Eclipse version: 3.8.1, release date June 2012
NetBeans version: 7.0.1, release date August 2011And that's for an OS released in 2014!
Centralised repositories are a bad idea.
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@Yamikuronue said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I still have trouble realizing that people born in the 90s are adults now.
Maybe we were just smart enough to realize we should wait for the cold war to end before being born.
I'm one of the first children born in reunited Germany, so… That's something, I guess?
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@asdf I wanted to live through the big '89 earthquake. Builds character.
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@Yamikuronue said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I wanted to live through the big '89 earthquake. Builds character.
But you died?
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@asdf said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I'm one of the first children born in reunited Germany, so… That's something, I guess?
so among the last conceived in split Germany?
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@blakeyrat said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
@Yamikuronue said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I wanted to live through the big '89 earthquake. Builds character.
But you died?
Close, but no meme.
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@Jaloopa said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
so among the last conceived in split Germany?
Nah, I was born in 1990. I'm pretty sure a lot of people had a lot of fun in West Germany in the 8 months after I was conceived.
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@asdf in soviet Germany, fun has you
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@anonymous234 So you mean I should have used EPEL on CentOS? Well what about when EPEL doesn't have the package either? When it comes to Ubuntu, I just grab PPAs as needed and build software when there's no other resort. But at least I can count on having the full set of X dev headers available instead of having to rebuild half of the X system from scratch just because someone failed to include a header needed to compile i3wm.
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@anonymous234 said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
@pydsigner I'll just quote myself here:
@anonymous234 said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: gotta love the Ubuntu (LTS) repositories
Eclipse version: 3.8.1, release date June 2012
NetBeans version: 7.0.1, release date August 2011And that's for an OS released in 2014!
Centralised repositories are a bad idea.
Do you really want left-pad stories on your LTS system?
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@anonymous234 said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Centralised repositories are a bad idea.
Your evidence doesn't support your conclusion.
You're looking at LTS. That's short for Long Term Support, which means the software doesn't change (except for bug fixes) even in the Long Term.
I'm not sure what you expect here. Frequent version upgrades like Firefox (or GTK) = wailing and gnashing of teeth, stable versions = wailing and gnashing of teeth too?
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@another_sam said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I'm not sure what you expect here.
Wailing and gnashing of teeth. Duh!
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@another_sam Why should the frequency of updates to Ubuntu be in any way related to the frequency of updates to Eclipse or NetBeans? I don't care if the GTK libraries or other internal components are old, but 3rd party programs are 3rd party programs. Unless the latest NetBeans actually depends on new Ubuntu libraries (which it doesn't).
If I ran Windows 7, should I expect my version of Firefox to be older than the one on Windows 10?
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@anonymous234 If you're looking for guarantees that Windows Update won't break Firefox, yes.
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@anonymous234 said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Why should the frequency of updates to Ubuntu be in any way related to the frequency of updates to Eclipse or NetBeans?
Because that's the entire point of LTS. If you don't want that, you don't want LTS. Other people want LTS. Stop using LTS and stop complaining about how out of date the software in LTS is, because it's not relevant to you.
You want bleeding edge? Try Debian unstable, code-name sid. Warning: Your complaints about newly updated software being broken or incompatible will fall on deaf ears.
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@another_sam Or anything based on Arch, for that matter.
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@another_sam said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
You want bleeding edge? Try Debian unstable, code-name sid. Warning: Your complaints about newly updated software being broken or incompatible will fall on deaf ears.
Or if you want something that by and large just works, use Debian Testing with sources.list set up like this:
deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ testing-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ stable main contrib non-free deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free
Testing mostly tracks Unstable, but with some degree of automated insanity prevention. It gets periodically frozen for a while before each release of Stable to allow the maintenance folks to concentrate on fixing bugs before it becomes the new Stable.
The deb-src lines that point to the source repos for Stable, Unstable and Experimental let me pull in versions from those repos and compile them to fit within my mainly Testing installation, without giving the package manager enough options to cause me version pinning grief.
For example, Testing recently updated the keepassx package to the new 2.x version from upstream. That's a CADT rewrite of KeePassX designed to use the same .kdbx password database format as the KeePass 2.x series does. I like the KeePass 1.x UI better than the 2.x UI, and I like the old KeePassX 0.43 UI a lot better than the new KeePassX 2.x UI. KeePass 1.x and 2.x are both still actively supported on Windows, so I'm sticking with my 1.x-compatible .kdb password database; but on Linux I now need to roll KeePassX back to 0.4x and make sure it stays there.
So I stuck this in
/etc/apt/preferences
:Package: keepassx Pin: version 0.4* Pin-Priority: 1001
The package manager will now never update keepassx beyond 0.4x. But it had already done that by the time I noticed that this was an issue, so I need to install 0.4x again to replace the automatically delivered 2.x version:
cd /tmp apt source --compile keepassx/stable
pulls in the KeePass sources from Stable, compiles them, and generates a Testing-compatible .deb that installs cleanly using
dpkg -i
orgdebi
.I have occasionally needed to compile a source package from Unstable or Experimental in this way as well, to get access to bug fixes or new features. It's been painless, and I like the way the packages so generated get automatically superseded by updated versions when those do eventually land in Testing.
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@flabdablet does anyone use debian stable? Is it solider than the other distros?
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@clippy said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
does anyone use debian stable?
It goes on my wife's machine because she doesn't much like the surprises that come about when I apt-get dist-upgrade and I don't like the whining that comes about when I apt-get dist-upgrade.
I've been thinking of reverting my laptop and server to stable from unstable too, because I find these days I don't enjoy fiddling with fixing stuff that just broke as much as I used to.
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@clippy You can be fairly sure that all the bugs you see in Stable are old.
Stable used to have a reputation for doddering obsolescence, but these days I think Red Hat Enterprise Linux is now the clear winner for that.
The version of Squid I'm using on the school server runs inside a VM that I still haven't updated from Squeeze, which is now two releases behind the current Stable. It works fine. In five years I've had no need to mess with it.
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@boomzilla said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Eh? Eh? Speak up!
Would this help?
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@another_sam Trouble with that plan is that the entire software industry is going inexorably to shit as the rising tide of gratuitous complexity sweeps all before it.
You can defer all the horrible breakage for a couple of years at best by going to Stable, but you're always going to need to fix shit that some gung-ho team of twenty year old hipsters just broke because they can't know any better.
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@flabdablet Debian takes much better care that upgrading from oldstable to stable works than upgrading from sid yesterday to sid today. Stuff will still change but the experience will be much smoother.
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@another_sam Frankly, the experience of having GNOME 3 suddenly foisted upon me is not something I would care much about the smoothness of, even if I were married to you :-)
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@flabdablet Ha ha, I fooled them! I use KDE!
And if you were married to me we'd both have much bigger () things to worry about, like how our sham of a marriage is still illegal in 2016 in what I thought was a first-world, developed, modern democracy.
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@flabdablet said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
you're always going to need to fix shit that some gung-ho team of twenty year old hipsters just broke because they can't know any better
That's how the Ruby and node guys seem to roll; keeping current stuff working doesn't seem to be a life goal for them. I'd be highly amused if they found themselves entering their thirties in a few years and having to actually support the shitfest they've foisted on the rest of us.
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@another_sam said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
what I thought was a first-world, developed, modern democracy
Were you not paying attention the day a News Poll found that two thirds of the Australian populace thought locking up "terrorist suspects" without charge, for weeks at a time, and making it illegal to report that this has happened, was a good idea?
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@anonymous234 said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Why should the frequency of updates to Ubuntu be in any way related to the frequency of updates to Eclipse or NetBeans?
Then don't get those packages from the LTS packages. It's not like you can only ever run stuff from them.
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@another_sam said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Ha ha, I fooled them! I use KDE!
Have you looked at KDE 5?
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@boomzilla I actually like KDE5. Am I TRWTF?
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@Erufael From what I hear, it's not so much that KDE5 is fundamentally bad as it is that it's prone to instability.
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@pydsigner Ahh. Has it actually been released as a non-beta version, or whatever it was a while ago when I tried it?
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@Erufael said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Has it actually been released as a non-beta version, or whatever it was a while ago when I tried it?
It's what comes on Kubuntu 16.04. I bitched about it somewhere else on here. The way they messed up the display for vertical panels (especially for stuff like the launcher button) was really retarded, and kate got stupid somehow about opening a remote file (basically, it includes the filename of the current file as part of the directory, resulting in an error dialog every time you go to open a new file). The session handling seemed broken, too.
I didn't use it for too long before bailing back to KDE 4.
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@boomzilla said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
I didn't use it for too long before bailing back to KDE 4.
I might need to do this. I just nuke-paved the root partition on my linux media center box and installed Kubuntu, and the version of KDE it came with has been having some weirdness.
And that's not even including the fun I had when I installed the nvidia proprietary drivers. Why it thought it was a good idea to set the DPI to 36x36 on a 47" 1080p TV I'll never know, but it was fun trying to unfuck that while all the text was comparable in size to a gnat's testicle.
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@flabdablet said in GTK's plan to fix everything: break compatibility every 6 months:
Were you not paying attention the day a News Poll found that two thirds of the Australian populace thought locking up "terrorist suspects" without charge, for weeks at a time, and making it illegal to report that this has happened, was a good idea?
I must have been not paying attention. In my defence:
- News Poll? Why would I pay attention?
- I might not have given it much significance because it just fades into the high background levels of racism in Australia.
- I've posted this before but it bears repeating because it's awesome music and because 15 years after the whole Tampa thing people are dumbarses still falling for the same fucking tricks!