Non-WTF forum software
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@NeighborhoodButcher
Oh, anyone want a challenge? Try this on mobile.
I wish I could take all the "gestures" in the world and launch it into the Sun. Mobile JS was a huge mistake in this regard. (Before someone beats it to me: JS was a mistake!)
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@Yamikuronue said in Non-WTF forum software:
On Android, if I type "fuck" it'll change it to "duck" because autocorrect recognizes that it's almost a word in the dictionary. I wouldn't want it to change "kuck" into "fuck", but I want it to leave "fuck" alone.
Did you enable swearing?
Settings -> Language & Input -> Google Keyboard -> Text correction -> Disable "Block Offensive Words"
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@Deadfast A like is not enough. You are a goddamn genius.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
That got fixed and closed.
Doesn't look like they've been able to reproduce it.
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@Yamikuronue No worries, I have my moments. Just don't blame me if you ever invite your friends to go "fuck hunting" :p
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@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
oesn't look like they've been able to reproduce it.
Oh, well, then I guess the bug doesn't exist then.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
oesn't look like they've been able to reproduce it.
Oh, well, then I guess the bug doesn't exist then.
Your words, not mine.
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@ben_lubar I can certainly repro the inability to reply to a thread. No idea what causes it. Bloody annoying.
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@Deadfast Knowing me, that's much more likely to be what I meant in the first place :D
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@Deadfast said in Non-WTF forum software:
I can certainly repro the inability to reply to a thread.
That's not the one @Lorne-Kates is talking about. We're pretty sure the reason for the reply button not working is something to do with a timeout on something that loads when you click the reply button. For some reason, the composer isn't loaded as part of the huge script named nodebb.min.js.
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@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
oesn't look like they've been able to reproduce it.
Oh, well, then I guess the bug doesn't exist then.
Your words, not mine.
Technically, we're both @blakeyrat alts, so it gets muddy as to who said what...
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@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
oesn't look like they've been able to reproduce it.
Oh, well, then I guess the bug doesn't exist then.
Your words, not mine.
Technically, we're both @bakeyrat alts, so it gets muddy as to who said what...
I'm a @boomzilla alt.
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@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@ben_lubar said in Non-WTF forum software:
oesn't look like they've been able to reproduce it.
Oh, well, then I guess the bug doesn't exist then.
Your words, not mine.
Technically, we're both @bakeyrat alts, so it gets muddy as to who said what...
I'm a @boomzilla alt.
@boomzilla is a @blakeyrat alt.
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@Deadfast said in Non-WTF forum software:
Just don't blame me if you ever invite your friends to go "fuck hunting"
I have no idea what that is, but it sounds like fun.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
- look, how many times per week, on average, do you have to restart Apache/IIS and/or MySQL/MSSQL and/or the Linux/Windows server itself, because the forum has randomly shit itself so hard it's taken down everything around it?"
To be fair, it's just NodeBB that's pegging a CPU.
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@NeighborhoodButcher said in Non-WTF forum software:
From a user point of view, I seriously miss Disco.
I guess I'm just lucky or something. Aside from when NodeBB craps itself, it's sooo much better than discourse. By the end, it was constantly driving up my blood pressure by waiting several second to do anything.
I have no idea why I don't have the constant NodeBB problems that other people have (except for @Lorne-Kates, who uses ancient software so it's probably his own fault there), but the performance here is pretty binary. Of course, I have the power to fix that, which probably makes a huge difference in perspective. But still...I don't have to refresh all the time to post stuff, and by god I post a lot.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Non-WTF forum software:
@boomzilla is a @blakeyrat alt.
You fucking Luddite! Stop using Win95!
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@boomzilla said in Non-WTF forum software:
ko mo
"(I want you to do) (what action?)"
(parentheses for grouping)
You want me to do an action of my choice? Sure, I'll write this reply to your post then.
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@boomzilla said in Non-WTF forum software:
@NeighborhoodButcher said in Non-WTF forum software:
From a user point of view, I seriously miss Disco.
I guess I'm just lucky or something. Aside from when NodeBB craps itself, it's sooo much better than discourse. By the end, it was constantly driving up my blood pressure by waiting several second to do anything.
I have no idea why I don't have the constant NodeBB problems that other people have (except for @Lorne-Kates, who uses ancient software so it's probably his own fault there), but the performance here is pretty binary. Of course, I have the power to fix that, which probably makes a huge difference in perspective. But still...I don't have to refresh all the time to post stuff, and by god I post a lot.
Well, I do experience all the problems reported here, and more. Example - I just opened this topic and saw ~30 new replies, when the notification said about only 4. Also, I would like to be mailed when someone replies. Not possible here. I would love to have highlighted new posts in certain categories. Not possible here. To see what new has been posted in sidebar, I have to remember when was the last time I was here and look through last post dates. Not to mention I have to reload the page to actually do something. I would gladly trade waiting 1s more for an action to be performed, for the guarantee it will be performed without refreshing. Also, the side menu on mobile decided to collapse randomly.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Non-WTF forum software:
@kt_ said in Non-WTF forum software:
autocorrect a word into a slur.
It's not that it's a slur, (stop microaggressing) it's that apparently it's much more likely I would type fuck that tuck (though his that I've done so four times recently it's now the fifth suggestion in the list).
I understand that. I'm just saying this wouldn't happen on iOS's keyboard because it doesn't allow for slurs to be added into dictionary -- it has them in already and is set up this way so that it will never autocorrect into them.
Of course it's true for English dictionary, not Polish, but it's still great.
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@Deadfast said in Non-WTF forum software:
@Yamikuronue said in Non-WTF forum software:
On Android, if I type "fuck" it'll change it to "duck" because autocorrect recognizes that it's almost a word in the dictionary. I wouldn't want it to change "kuck" into "fuck", but I want it to leave "fuck" alone.
Did you enable swearing?
Settings -> Language & Input -> Google Keyboard -> Text correction -> Disable "Block Offensive Words"
That's cool.
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@NeighborhoodButcher recently I missed a whole bunch of replies in the WTF, Britain thread because NodeBB thinks that if you open a thread you surely have seen all of the replies so it marks all notifications from this thread as read. So I noticed them a day later purely by accident.
On the other hand, it's been getting better with each month, so I'm really hopeful that in two years we'll finally be able to say "hey, this forum software is clearly ready for the next decade!"
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@kt_ I'll be happy with 'ready for this decade'.
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@boomzilla me too. I agree with what @cartman82 once said that NodeBB lacks spit and polish, but other than that I rarely have troubles posting.
... Have you/do you have the means to compare[d] statistics on the number of posts per day before and after the Exodus?
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Non-WTF forum software:
I rarely have troubles posting.
For some reason, I'm having more trouble with NodeBB[*]. I pretty much need to refresh the page each time before the "reply"/"quote" buttons work. Same thing with this reply.
[*] OTOH, NodeBB seems to have a much better uptime, so there's that.
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@boomzilla said in Non-WTF forum software:
I have no idea why I don't have the constant NodeBB problems that other people have
I've observed that if the streaming websocket is alive and responsive, NodeBB is quite nice to use (modulo CSS troubles). Yet if the websocket isn't happy — which can be for many different reasons, such as after a change of IP address or if behind a really sucky proxy — then NodeBB is quite annoying to use. There are also some issues to do with streaming in of posts into places where they shouldn't be; those are the bugs that ought to get some attention. (The problems are definitely exacerbated when the websocket has broken.)
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@cvi said in Non-WTF forum software:
For some reason, I'm having more trouble with NodeBB
Yes, that's the websocket problems.
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
Yes, that's the websocket problems.
Any chance that the websocket problems may be related to using multiple tabs? I have the (completely unfounded and unverified) feeling that the problems crop up more when I have a bunch of WTDWTF-tabs open.
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@cvi said in Non-WTF forum software:
Any chance that the websocket problems may be related to using multiple tabs?
No idea. My suspicions are centred more around network-level problems, which would explain why some people have a lot of difficulties and others have none.
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
I've observed that if the streaming websocket is alive and responsive, NodeBB is quite nice to use
Looks like I live right around the corner from the server, so maybe that's part of the explanation why it's so good to me.
@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
There are also some issues to do with streaming in of posts into places where they shouldn't be;
Yep. In an active discussion I find myself clicking on a post's permalink to sort that out.
@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
The problems are definitely exacerbated when the websocket has broken.
No doubt.
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
No idea. My suspicions are centred more around network-level problems, which would explain why some people have a lot of difficulties and others have none.
FWIW, I'm unlikely to be affected by either sucky proxy or IP-address changes. I've observed the same problem in a number of places now, including now at work, where I have a public IP and (AFAIK) no filtering.
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
@cvi said in Non-WTF forum software:
Any chance that the websocket problems may be related to using multiple tabs?
No idea. My suspicions are centred more around network-level problems, which would explain why some people have a lot of difficulties and others have none.
Unless my network doesn't like TDWTF in particular, I don't think it's a network issue. To add insult to injury, disco notifications worked just fine.
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@NeighborhoodButcher said in Non-WTF forum software:
Unless my network doesn't like TDWTF in particular, I don't think it's a network issue.
It depends on what's actually deployed, as there's a whole bunch of stuff that is possible that is mostly transparent, but not entirely. I've also hit problems with some network hardware; the problems appear to link to issues with buffer bloat and are much more exacerbated when dealing with long-lived connections rather than the short ones that normal HTTP can work happily with.
To add insult to injury, disco notifications worked just fine.
I think didn't use websockets for their messaging fabric.
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@dkf It didn't, it was AJAX polling the whole time, which is how come the server could be brought to its knees.
Sam said several times they weren't going down the websockets route but I forget the raisins why he said this.
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@Arantor said in Non-WTF forum software:
@dkf It didn't, it was AJAX polling the whole time, which is how come the server could be brought to its knees.
Sam said several times they weren't going down the websockets route but I forget the raisins why he said this.
Probably had the same problems as I: compatibility and blocked ports.
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@Arantor said in Non-WTF forum software:
Sam said several times they weren't going down the websockets route but I forget the raisins why he said this.
I think it was because it was not working well on some platforms. What a surprise that using it is having problems then…
Isn't there some JS library that tries to hide all this stuff? I recall something being mentioned, but I didn't really give a Belgium about it at the time, so I forget which it was. Perhaps we should see if we can try that out and see if that fixes problems? It might increase some people's power usage and traffic levels, but if it makes the site usable for them at all then it could be seen as a reasonable trade-off.
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
@Arantor said in Non-WTF forum software:
Sam said several times they weren't going down the websockets route but I forget the raisins why he said this.
I think it was because it was not working well on some platforms. What a surprise that using it is having problems then…
Isn't there some JS library that tries to hide all this stuff? I recall something being mentioned, but I didn't really give a Belgium about it at the time, so I forget which it was. Perhaps we should see if we can try that out and see if that fixes problems? It might increase some people's power usage and traffic levels, but if it makes the site usable for them at all then it could be seen as a reasonable trade-off.
It's called socket.io
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Socket.io used to use legacy methods if websockets wasn't available, however these days that is no longer the case i.e. there is no fallback method.
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This post is deleted!
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@lucas1 said in Non-WTF forum software:
Socket.io used to use legacy methods if websockets wasn't available, however these days that is no longer the case i.e. there is no fallback method.
E_CITATION_NEEDED
Socket.io uses engine.io for it's underlying transport, in the default configuration engine.io supports both websocket connections and XHR polling.
Before Engine.io was refactored out of socket.io it is true that socket.io used to support a third fallback transport, namely flash, but that was removed in the migration, probably because of concern over security issues in flash and the lack of flexibility the flash connector actually had
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@accalia But that would still require NodeBB to support the XHR polling which I don't think it does...
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@accalia Thanks for the correction.
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@Arantor said in Non-WTF forum software:
But that would still require NodeBB to support the XHR polling which I don't think it does...
which is odd, because that means they deliberately told socket.io to not use the fallback connections.
that's NodeBB's fault, not socket.io's fault, because socket.io still defaults to accepting XHR polling as a fallback.
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@accalia I'm only guessing here, rather than having tried it. I prefer to keep my hands dirty with only that foul PHP stuff, not that differently foul NodeJS stuff.
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
@boomzilla said in Non-WTF forum software:
I have no idea why I don't have the constant NodeBB problems that other people have
I've observed that if the streaming websocket is alive and responsive, NodeBB is quite nice to use (modulo CSS troubles). Yet if the websocket isn't happy — which can be for many different reasons, such as after a change of IP address or if behind a really sucky proxy — then NodeBB is quite annoying to use. There are also some issues to do with streaming in of posts into places where they shouldn't be; those are the bugs that ought to get some attention. (The problems are definitely exacerbated when the websocket has broken.)
Welcome to mobile.
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@kt_ said in Non-WTF forum software:
Welcome to mobile.
Again, I haven't had this problem on mobile either (though the vast majority of the time I'm using a desktop). You guys should try to be more like me.
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@NeighborhoodButcher said in Non-WTF forum software:
I would gladly trade waiting 1s more for an action to be performed, for the guarantee it will be performed without refreshing.
So........ phpBB?
Wait, sorry, no, that doesn't fit your specs. phpBB doesn't make you wait that extra 1 second. it just fucking does the action.
(Seriously-- posting on the Something Awful forums is a treat. Even though there's a billion people all posting in the threads that are a billion posts long each-- click reply NO DELAY. Type my response ALWAYS WORKS. Click "submit" it is submitted, I get the Thank You page, and back to the thread in less than 1 second. It's HOLY SHIT THIS IS HOW THINGS USED TO WORK fast)
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@dkf said in Non-WTF forum software:
@cvi said in Non-WTF forum software:
For some reason, I'm having more trouble with NodeBB
Yes, that's the websocket problems.
No, that's the developer's problem. There's more ways for an "always on" connection to not be on anymore ESPECIALLY over TCP. We have this:
ws = WebSocket.open(); // let us hope that never goes down lol
When we should have, roughly:
ws = WebSocket.open(); loop: if (ws.responseTimeIsSlow() OR ws.isClosed() OR ws.isNotWorkingRightForAnyFuckingReasonAtAllWhatsoever()) { ws.close(); ws.open(); if(ws.IsStillFuckedUp()) { site.MessageToUser("omfg something is de shitz sorry try again soon"); } } until HeatDeathOfUniverse;