Recruiting Giants
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@blakeyrat said in Recruiting Giants:
@accalia How does the chick in your avatar keep her top on?
@blakeyrat, how come you can see what her avatar is? It's so fucking small to me it just looks like a bunch of colors splashed on a wall.
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@kt_ said in Recruiting Giants:
@blakeyrat, how come you can see what her avatar is? It's so fucking small to me it just looks like a bunch of colors splashed on a wall.
click the avatar and it gets bigger as the user card appears. you can also see a bigger version on my profile page if you want.
or scroll down a bit from the quoted post and i posted the full source.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Recruiting Giants:
@accalia said in Recruiting Giants:
click the avatar and it gets bigger
it's amazing what gets bigger when you "click" it
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@Magus said in Recruiting Giants:
@Lorne-Kates Hopefully he'll get paid enough to buy an internet connection eventually so I can tell him you said that.
He can use the Internet connection at work, because that's where he should be spending all his time. There's a couch for when he shows weakness and needs to "sleep", the fucking pussy.
Actually, scratch that. He shouldn't be using the office's internet connection. That implies he's trying to waste valuable company time by socializing or being some Aspie on a bird watching wiki or something like that. None of that is ENGINEERING. The company doesn't pay for Internet for him to waste time on it. He needs to be a GIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@bb36e said in Recruiting Giants:
Some DirectX creator gives his advice for hiring skilled developers. To be honest, what with working 70 hours a week and being a slave to your company's culture becoming admirable in some circles, this doesn't surprise me.
This presentation was for a group of CEOs and other high-level execs.
"Real engineers don’t value money[...]"
HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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@Lorne-Kates At least he can put 'I was a Giant' on his resume now? Should help, no matter how bad it is. Considering getting hired at all as a programmer in the sheeplands is hard...
Too bad about his sanity, though.
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@bb36e said in Recruiting Giants:
Coding is NOT work: people who think this...are not software engineers
While I can't say I'm a fan of the term software /engineer/, fuck this guy for telling people that I'm a poor worker because I give a shit about getting paid, and for seeing my job as a job.
yup, I see my job as a job too. I have my CS degree, and I am really good at what I do, and I care about doing a good job. But I am NOT willing to put in over 50 hours a week regularly, even with overtime pay. And if I am going over 40, there had better be a DAMN GOOD reason that isn't "some asshole manager who can't manage time needs this done." And at the end of the day, my job is just a job, and I can EASILY get another. My mind switches off from what I do at the office as soon as quitting time hits. Don't like it? Feel free to outsource my position to whatever country they are outsourcing to now. You let me know how that works out for you, quality-wise
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@Vaire said in Recruiting Giants:
"Real engineers don’t value money[...]"
hmm... there's a tiny tiny smidgen of truth to that one, lost and alone in the sea of lies, crying out for succor.
Real Engineers are not motivated by piles of cash. to an engineer who is comfortably living on their current salary without major financial concerns a cash raise will not be terribly motivating, unlike it might be for a salesperson or manager. In this case it's more motiviating to give the engineer an interesting project to work on, or more autonomy and control over an existing project.
that being said if you're not going to pay the engineer what they're worth, if you're not going to take the issue of money off the table so that the engineer isn't worried about their finances..... well that's a whole other ball of wax.... and this is the regiem that managers who listen to this sort of shite invariably end up in. so yeah. if you believe engineers don't value money you're gonna have a bad day.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Recruiting Giants:
@Magus said in Recruiting Giants:
Hang on, my friend works for this guy. Just got a job at Nyriad recently.
I will start a KickStarter to fund his legal fees and unemployment costs if he'll go kick this guy in the nuts over and over, shouting "NUTKICKING IS MY PASSION! I'M A FUCKING GIANT!" over and over.
He might even be able to claim he's Aspergers and get a bonus out of it.
Congratulations, you made me choke on my coffee laughing at that.
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@accalia Agreed. It is one thing to say that money isn't the primary motivation most engineers have for working on a specific project; saying that it is irrelevant, or that this excuses underpaying skilled craftspeople, is something else entirely.
Besides, when you're some low-level coder just grinding out another piece of shitware to infect Steam with, or your 'creative contribution' consists of changing the title of "Madden Curling 20XX" to "Madden Curling 20XX+1", then money probably is the main motivation, or at least a close second behind 'career advancement'.
Filed Under: Do these fuckheads even remember what sport John Madden was actually famous for playing? 'Cos I'm not sure I ever knew...
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@accalia said in Recruiting Giants:
@Vaire said in Recruiting Giants:
"Real engineers don’t value money[...]"
hmm... there's a tiny tiny smidgen of truth to that one, lost and alone in the sea of lies, crying out for succor.
Real Engineers are not motivated by piles of cash. to an engineer who is comfortably living on their current salary without major financial concerns a cash raise will not be terribly motivating, unlike it might be for a salesperson or manager. In this case it's more motiviating to give the engineer an interesting project to work on, or more autonomy and control over an existing project.
that being said if you're not going to pay the engineer what they're worth, if you're not going to take the issue of money off the table so that the engineer isn't worried about their finances..... well that's a whole other ball of wax.... and this is the regiem that managers who listen to this sort of shite invariably end up in. so yeah. if you believe engineers don't value money you're gonna have a bad day.
Fiiiiiiiine, if you're going to bring logic into this, AND nuance, then I suppose I have to agree.
I have had a NUMBER of recruiters try to pull me away from where I (comfortably) am right now, and they were FLABBERGASTED when the additional 5k a year (or whatever other piddly number they threw at me, I don't remember) didn't sway me.They didn't understand that I was happy where I was, liked the people I work with (more or less), liked the work, and generally was fine where I was. The money bump just wasn't enough to even catch my interest, let alone get me to quit and move on.
And they were like, "but ... but ... but ... we're offering more money."
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@AyGeePlus said in Recruiting Giants:
You get double productivity the first 80 hour week, regular productivity the second 80 hour week, and half regular productivity the third, and it only gets worse from there.
Did they find out how many 40 hour weeks you need after one 80 hour week for the next to be another 'first'?
@ScholRLEA said
advocates driving those 'rock stars' into an early grave. Brilliant!
It says to hire mainly young employees, and extols the virtues of demographics that supposedly won't change jobs. So you need some way to get rid of most of them before they get old.
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@CarrieVS said in Recruiting Giants:
@AyGeePlus said in Recruiting Giants:
You get double productivity the first 80 hour week, regular productivity the second 80 hour week, and half regular productivity the third, and it only gets worse from there.
Did they find out how many 40 hour weeks you need after one 80 hour week for the next to be another 'first'?
Jesus-Tapdancing-Christ, don't put ideas into their heads! o_O
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@Vaire said in Recruiting Giants:
Fiiiiiiiine, if you're going to bring logic into this, AND nuance, then I suppose I have to agree.
the best kind of correct!
wait.... wrong meme....
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@accalia woo! good/passable post!
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@ScholRLEA said in Recruiting Giants:
Filed Under: Do these fuckheads even remember what sport John Madden was actually famous for playing? 'Cos I'm not sure I ever knew...
he was a cricket player, no?
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@accalia said in Recruiting Giants:
@ScholRLEA said in Recruiting Giants:
Filed Under: Do these fuckheads even remember what sport John Madden was actually famous for playing? 'Cos I'm not sure I ever knew...
he was a cricket player, no?
The trolling is strong with those one today:D
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@ScholRLEA said in Recruiting Giants:
Do these fuckheads even remember what sport John Madden was actually famous for playing? 'Cos I'm not sure I ever knew...
Handegg?
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There's a footnote on page 5 that's never referred to. That's just sick.
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@CarrieVS said in Recruiting Giants:
Did they find out how many 40 hour weeks you need after one 80 hour week for the next to be another 'first'?
My studies say "like 10 years".
WtfCorp thinks it resets twice every week.
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@Weng said in Recruiting Giants:
@CarrieVS said in Recruiting Giants:
Did they find out how many 40 hour weeks you need after one 80 hour week for the next to be another 'first'?
My studies say "like 10 years".
WtfCorp thinks it resets twice every week.
Weng, we need to talk about your self-abuse staying there. It isn't healthy {{hugs}}
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@Vaire I got to the conclusion that @Weng is both a masochist and a workaholic and doesn't know/accept it.
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@Sentenryu Masochist yes.
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@Sentenryu said in Recruiting Giants:
@Vaire I got to the conclusion that @Weng is both a masochist and a workaholic and doesn't know/accept it.
I Think they've got something on him. Like evidence he killed Kennedy or that he set up this whole Lewinsky business, or that he was the New Year's rapist in Europe, or all of them.
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@Luhmann said in Recruiting Giants:
It was yoghurt all along ...
http://exiledingeeksville.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Spaceballs-Yogurt.jpg
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@Lorne-Kates said in Recruiting Giants:
@blakeyrat said in Recruiting Giants:
Have you ever seen Little Miss Sunshine?
Nope.
Do.
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@Pockets said in Recruiting Giants:
The day we signed the contract we became employees. And employees get paid. I want. My fucking. MONEY.
We'll have none of that wage slave thinking in my battalion, soldier.
Via Metafilter.
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@bb36e said in Recruiting Giants:
This presentation was for a group of
CEOs and other high-level execsfellow pointy-haired bosses.
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@flabdablet said in Recruiting Giants:
@Lorne-Kates said in Recruiting Giants:
@blakeyrat said in Recruiting Giants:
Have you ever seen Little Miss Sunshine?
Nope.
Do.
Why? It's okay but nothing special.
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It's things like this that make me a lot happier with my choice to not go into Game Development, even though that was my degree program, and instead get into the Simulations industry. I still, occasionally, think it'd be kind of fun to go back into Games, but then I read articles like this...
Sure, I don't get paid for overtime where I'm at, but at least they pay me well and aren't actively trying to burn me out.
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It is time to dust up an old but classic read.
EA: The Human Story
My significant other works for Electronic Arts, and I'm what you might call a disgruntled spouse. EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging…
Like a 70 hours work week is helping retain the wife or girlfriend by taking the guy away for most of his awake time.
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Wow. I have had at least three separate sources this week bring up this story and every single time I see it, I feel a little worse that one of my favorite hobbies has people like that who think that people are like batteries or some kinda crap like that. Obviously they should just try better and then they wouldn't complain about never getting to sleep and that their stress is literally killing them.
It's this super high level of insanity that I just...how does no one ever stare at the guy when he's saying this like he just decided to take a crap on the boardroom table?
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@cloak15 said in Recruiting Giants:
how does no one ever stare at the guy when he's saying this like he just decided to take a crap on the boardroom table?
He's one of the lizards, he mostly talks to other lizards, and none of the lizards think this kind of thing is the slightest bit objectionable.
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So, Alex St. John's daughter Amelia has responded to her father's "horrific toddler meltdown" (her words, not mine).
When your own grown daughter thinks you're a nutcase, maybe you should rethink what you're saying.
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I'm not going refer to business lizards because I kinda like lizards. I collect the Warhammer ones and they're crazy and unpleasant in far more appealing ways than being soulless bean-counting devices with no apparent concept of emotion.
But apparently this sea-cucumber doesn't want to employ me because I enjoy other things besides my job and want to have time and money for them (and because I'm female and a dev). That's what we call a win-win situation, because I certainly don't want to work for him.
If he's correct about the existence of engineers who exist only to code, then I'm happy for them that they can finally find an employer who'll reward them for their good work with overtime instead of irritating them with payrises and benefit packages and all that pointless stuff. If he's not correct, I won't be too sad for him.
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I'm gonna make myself a teeshirt:
I ONLY PUSH MY MOUSE AROUND ALL DAY eventually, software happens
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Jeez. I'm starting to like the idea.
The software happens magically, by the sheer willpower of the CEO. Thing is, proper ritual includes dozens of coders that only push mice around, a few managers, stuff like that. True, they need the top-notch equipnment, a hefty paycheck, maybe, they need to push their mice around. Likewise, managers need to conduct meetings, do reports, et cetera. But they all don't create anything, really. It's all a necessary part of the ritual. Things they do catalyze the willpower of the CEO, which creates a strong magical field, and then just BOOM! software coalesces out of thin air!
Well sometimes it doesn't. If it didn't, the ritual was likely wrong. Not enough meetings, too many meetings, wrong mouse-pushing motions, wrong working hours (they need to be just right). Maybe, not enough CEO willpower. But ultimately, it's like this. No craft, no engineering. Just magic.
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@wft I like it. Is the field generated by mouse movement, or is it about pushing them into the perfect alignment to focus the field correctly?
We're talking mammalian mice here, right? I've always found them to have a stronger magical resonance than electronic ones. Do you think we could conduct R&D into whether the whole mouse is required or if pushing around 3cc of mouse blood has the same effect. Or a fresh egg.
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Or worse, they think that it's all fun and they think you'll want to work on their project for 'exposure', which is bullshit.
Exposure is what you get when you just show your stuff off to people. That can be done in a freaking park.
If you have anything like 'Reviews' or 'Deadlines' or 'It's not quite the right sort of UI. Can you make sure it has a slot for microtransactions' you should be paid. If not for the work, for you to not slap someone.
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@cloak15 said in Recruiting Giants:
Exposure is what you get when you just show your stuff off to people. That can be done in a freaking park.
...?
more like
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@CarrieVS said in Recruiting Giants:
We're talking mammalian mice here, right?
I don't think so. When you push a mammalian mouse around in the right fashion, a biology or medicine research article usually happens as a result.
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@cloak15 said in Recruiting Giants:
for you to not slap someone.
Sometimes I think thats what I'm paid for.
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@wft Aw. But we do have dribbly candles and a stuffed alligator hanging from the ceiling?
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@CarrieVS Dunno, really, but I've heard positive reports of rituals conducted in the comfort of developers' homes, or where they have actual rooms to themselves. Some people like stuffed alligators and dribbly candles, so those might induce some very positive magic flow which will contribute to the software happening.
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@wft said in Recruiting Giants:
where they have actual rooms to themselves
Do cubicle farms even still exist? I've never had a workplace that wasn't open plan, and my new job is a record-breaker: a building the size of a smallish aircraft hangar, with another such connected by an atrium, and three floors. This entire structure is open - a central corridor spans all three floors, with chest-high barriers rather than walls on that side of each 'room'.
Also desks that are back to back don't have dividers between them, just one big table and eye contact with your opposite number. I'm fortunate to be on the outer side of my 'room', since that side is divided into bays (two banks of back-to-back desks to a bay) by free-standing whiteboards. The poor souls on the inner side have undivided line of sight up and down the the entire room.
Game developers must avoid the “pay me for my work” attitude
x.com
