Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes
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http://www.geek.com/apps/tsa-paid-1-4-million-for-randomizer-app-that-chooses-left-or-right-1651337/
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@cartman82 But that's for Android, not iPad!
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@aliceif That $1.4 million went for Apple's developer licence, I bet.
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Why the fuck do they need iPads to show an arrow which either points left or right?!
A cheap Android tablet could do that.
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I'd be interested to find out the timing of the award. This screams end of Fiscal Year spending.
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@loopback0 said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Why the fuck do they need iPads to show an arrow which either points left or right?!
A cheap Android tabletTwo light bulbs and a sheet of printed plastic could do that.FTFY
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@aliceif I can do the coding for a multiplatform Android and iPad version in 10 minutes, the Android one is ready immediately, but for iPad I just need a few thousand dollars for a Mac, a month to get the certificate from Apple, and a day or two of XCode wrangling to get it to compile...
Yeah, $1.4mil sounds about right, should cover my medical bills from various mental institutions...
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Even worse WTF is, why the hell do they need a person to keep tapping that iPad?
Why not just a screen that automatically sends each person through a random gate?
This whole thing is just crazy.
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@loopback0 Some people literally don't know there are cheap non-Apple tablets. Maybe the requirements were written by one of them?
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@cartman82 said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
why the hell do they need a person
Security. If it's an automated system, someone will find a way to game it. A person can hit an emergency buzzer and tackle a guy while backup scrambles to the scene.
A person can also explain something that's confused a first-time traveller, or offer directions to the right gate, or tell you if you're in the correct terminal building.
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@cartman82 Everybody's going nuts over this story while ignoring that the bill included the hardware purchases and training.
I mean I'm no fan of the TSA, but buying 4-5 iPads for every international airport in the US? It's not that crazy.
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@Yamikuronue said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Security. If it's an automated system, someone will find a way to game it. A person can hit an emergency buzzer and tackle a guy while backup scrambles to the scene.
A person can also explain something that's confused a first-time traveller, or offer directions to the right gate, or tell you if you're in the correct terminal building.Ok, but why does that worker need to keep tapping that stupid thing?
Why can't an automated system direct the traffic, so TSA officer can concentrate on actually helping people or chasing away terrorists or whatever they imagine they are doing.
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@Yamikuronue said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
A person can also explain something that's confused a
first-time travellerThe way I initially read this was a bit more amusing than the actual intended meaning.
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@blakeyrat said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@cartman82 Everybody's going nuts over this story while ignoring that the bill included the hardware purchases and training.
I mean I'm no fan of the TSA, but buying 4-5 iPads for every international airport in the US? It's not that crazy.I'll grant you if that included all the hardware as well, the price is more reasonable.
On the other hand, it's more funny if you imagine it's for the software alone, so I'll go with that.
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@cartman82 said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Why can't an automated system direct the traffic, so TSA officer can concentrate on actually helping people or chasing away terrorists or whatever they imagine they are doing.
Now the system would have to detect when people walk up. That's going to cost a lot more.
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@boomzilla said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Now the system would have to detect when people walk up. That's going to cost a lot more.
That's automation 101.
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@cartman82 said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
I'll grant you if that included all the hardware as well, the price is more reasonable.
I could see the training being a big cost, too. Lots of travel, etc.
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@boomzilla They also need a human being there anyway to ensure people actually follow the instructions on the screen instead of going into the wrong line. So if the guy's there anyway, it's no huge burden for them to tap a screen.
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@boomzilla Of course, you need a lot of training to know how to operate that app
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@TimeBandit said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Of course, you need a lot of training to know how to operate that app
I'm assuming there's more to it than the app itself. Like how do you handle people who complain about being sent to the random checks or whatever?
It's easy to snark about stuff like this, but in the real world there's always more to it.
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The TSA don't want to split up families and groups of passengers. An automated system (e.g. triggered by a photoelectric sensor) can't make that distinction and would thus split up groups. That's why there's a person tapping the screen, as well as providing guidance ("Sir, Miss, please go to the left")
Now, they could've made the whole look a lot more professional without ever needing an iPad. Just build a little desk, install a few lamps and arrows into the base and have the same person sitting behind the desk, pushing a button when someone arrives.
A simple controller is enough for this, there's absolutely no need for an expensive and energy-consuming iPad. That's like buying a Porsche to carry your groceries home from the store 50 meters down the street, while all you really need is a trolley...
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Of course writing a random "left or right" arrow is trivial. It's hooking up the webcam so it can identify the color of the person's skin and "randomly" choose the right (as in correct) arrow that's the tricky bit.
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@AlexMedia In this day and age, a mass-produced iPad might be cheaper than any custom built solution, if you're building less than about 10,000 of them.
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If there is a person already directing the people to the gates, why cannot he use the amazing power of his mind to choose the direction?
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@Adynathos said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
If there is a person already directing the people to the gates, why cannot he use the amazing power of his mind to choose the direction?
The whole point of the app is to remove the possibility of accusations of racial profiling. Now whether it actually works at all, who knows, but the point is: a lot of TSA agents are racist fucks who are always going to send the darker-skinned families to the most onerous screening line if they had their choice.
Think of it this way: the police are full of people who couldn't quite make it in the US Marines. Mall security is full of people who couldn't quite make it in the police. The TSA is made up of people who couldn't quite make it in mall security. They define the bottom of the barrel for the security industry.
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@blakeyrat I see, I thought it was some kind of load-balancing.
In every aiport I have visited, all security gates were the same, everyone went through the same procedure.
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@blakeyrat Roll a dice. If it's an even number, send them to the right. Odd, send them to the left.
Bonus point : it can't break.
Bonus point 2 : it is truly random.
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@Adynathos said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
I see, I thought it was some kind of load-balancing.
It's supposed to be that. But imagine one line is much slower than others, or has Office Friendly Hands, or something. Some people might feel they were deliberately sent that way to annoy/harass them.
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@FrostCat In all airports I have visited you choose to which gate you go - so natural load balancing happens when you choose the shortest queue.
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@TimeBandit Dice can be shaved in the breakroom in like 10 minutes with one of their 49,000 confiscated pocket knives.
Look, I'm not saying the iPad solution was the PERFECT solution or the cheapest way to handle the problem, all I'm saying is:
- There WAS a genuine problem here that needed addressing
- The iPad solution isn't nearly as bad (or expensive) as it seems at first glance, considering the amount of work that was provided
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@blakeyrat If the French railways can get 300 kiosks built that are nothing more than a Like button, then surely the TSA should be able to get some purpose-built kiosks.
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@AlexMedia said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@blakeyrat If the French railways can get 300 kiosks built that are nothing more than a Like button, then surely the TSA should be able to get some purpose-built kiosks.
Did they do it cheaper than buying 300 iPads?
I'm not saying the TSA couldn't do it, you're making that shit up. I'm saying doing that would have probably been more expensive than simply buying the iPads.
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What I like is how that guard appears to be providing the same information as the app, as if by habit. Maybe it's too small... people are having trouble seeing the arrow... so now the agent is back to directing people the old-fashioned way.
http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TSA_Randomizer.jpg
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@blakeyrat said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@TimeBandit Dice can be shaved in the breakroom in like 10 minutes with one of their 49,000 confiscated pocket knives.
And that would achieve what exactly ?
The tricked dice would give tricked answer equally to everyone.
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@Bort said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
What I like is how that guard appears to be providing the same information as the app, as if by habit.
Dude, do you not understand the concept of "TSA employees are basically gorillas"?
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@TimeBandit said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
The tricked dice would give tricked answer equally to everyone.
That's why the guard only uses the shaved dice for the darker-skinn-- you know what, nevermind.
You guys have zero brain activity. I'm sick of explaining every obvious point here.
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@blakeyrat said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
You guys have zero brain activity.
Are you accusing us of working for the TSA?
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@blakeyrat said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@AlexMedia said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@blakeyrat If the French railways can get 300 kiosks built that are nothing more than a Like button, then surely the TSA should be able to get some purpose-built kiosks.
Did they do it cheaper than buying 300 iPads?
I think so, especially if you take vandalism into account. Those machines are standing everywhere on French stations, 24 hours a day, and are mostly unsupervised. iPads would be stolen in minutes, or just badly damaged.
Knowing the French they probably got some government funding for it, while it kept a local factory going out of business for a few weeks :P
I'm not saying the TSA couldn't do it, you're making that shit up.
I never said that they couldn't do it, you're making that shit up.
I said they should've been able to get some kiosks, probably "built in America" at more or less the same price than they have now. Good for local businesses and all that.
I'm saying doing that would have probably been more expensive than simply buying the iPads.
I don't necessarily think that is true, but we don't know the breakdown on capital expenditure. The purchase of a couple of hundred iPads is just one side of the story. You still need to deploy the software to those things, install them at the airports, and keep them updated and locked down.
Simultaneously, they're a theft risk (even at an airport) and they risk breaking. If the TSA officer standing behind it accidentally knocks it over, the screen shatters and the whole iPad will have to be replaced.
With a custom-built, full sized reception booth, you still have some costs: building and installing the desks. All the other things are pretty much a no-brainer, as it's just a fucking desk with two lamps in it.
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@blakeyrat The guard would have only 1 dice.
And what prevents the guard to tap another time on the iPad if he doesn't like the arrow provided by the app ?
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@cartman82 I just ... I can't even ...o_O
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This is expensive, yes, but the criticism shows a significant ignorance of what the TSA actually purchased. It's not just an app that points right or left. It's the app. It's the testing and certifying of the app as fair, unbiased, and to contain no easter eggs, bugs, or backdoors that could be exploited to affect the outcome (what happens when a TSA agent just taps it a few times to get the arrow pointing the right direction when a dark-skinned person comes to the head of the queue? you need to detect that and prevent it). It's the hardware, software, configuration, and installation of every device. It's the 24/7 support in every airport that the TSA operates. And that's a minimum. Then you have the extra red tape and paperwork involved in trying to contract anything for a government entity. Could they have got it for less? Probably... but I'm not going to glibly mock them for spending $1.4 million on a 10 minute app. It's a whole lot more than that.
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@boomzilla said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Like how do you handle people who complain about being sent to the random checks or whatever?
You send them to a full body search
Of course, if they complain again, you put them on the no-fly list.
I think that's how the TSA handle any complain.
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@anotherusername said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
I'm not going to glibly mock them
YMBNH
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@AlexMedia said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Now, they could've made the whole look a lot more professional without ever needing an iPad. Just build a little desk, install a few lamps and arrows into the base and have the same person sitting behind the desk, pushing a button when someone arrives.
That also doesn't account for differences in architecture and the space available at all the various airports. The one thing they can presumably be sure of is that there will be space for an agent to stand by the split.
@Adynathos said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@FrostCat In all airports I have visited you choose to which gate you go - so natural load balancing happens when you choose the shortest queue.
This was for people approved for pre-check and to determine if they get extra screening or not.
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@Adynathos said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
@FrostCat In all airports I have visited you choose to which gate you go - so natural load balancing happens when you choose the shortest queue.
To get into the "secure" area in a modern American airport, you have to go through the TSA queue first. It's that we're talking about.
There may be one or more lines open at any given time, and people may be told to switch lines if one is moving faster, etc., etc.
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@Bort said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
What I like is how that guard appears to be providing the same information as the app, as if by habit.
In a great win for the bureaucracy, they're unionized, so they can't exactly downsize her even if she's not doing anything useful. (Which is of course redundant.)
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@blakeyrat said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
That's why the guard only uses the shaved dice for the darker-skinn-- you know what, nevermind.
You guys have zero brain activity. I'm sick of explaining every obvious point here.It must suck when someone uses your own schtick against you.
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@anotherusername The whole point of the app at all is that you can see what arrow comes up randomly,(that's why it's big) and you can see the TSA agent sliding or scrolling or whatever it is they're doing to make it go. I bet money it's not actually random but biased against long strings of the same thing, the same way Dota probabilities work.
Honestly the 1.4 million price tag is about right for 'make sure people can't claim the TSA profiles racially and/or stop the TSA profiling racially', but way too high for 'random arrow app' or even 'random passenger sorting'. Why spend money certifying it bug-free when you have no guarantee the app running on the ipad is even the official version? It's consumer hardware. Grab the arrow icons from the source or the disassembly or whatever and write your own, but extra racist version. Slide with two fingers for scary brown person, one finger to randomly sort. Who's going to notice that?
The TSA needs an app so that the people it screens can watch them for bad behavior. This situation is completely insane.
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@blakeyrat said in Guy recreates $1.4 million TSA app in 10 minutes:
Think of it this way: the police are full of people who couldn't quite make it in the US Marines. Mall security is full of people who couldn't quite make it in the police. The TSA is made up of people who couldn't quite make it in mall security. They define the bottom of the barrel for the security industry.
The guy who gets pissy about profiling...just profiled people.